[We the People] Bug reporting

[raystuttgart]

Hi skintmark,

did you read the "install instructions" included in the download?
Please follow its instructions.

You need to copy one of the 2 included DLLs (in 1 city plot or 2 city plot folder) to folder "Assets".
If you want to play "RaR"-style, copy the "2 city plot" DLL.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Something that I already wondered in R&R times about is the trait "Sophisticated". The traits are supposed to give out advantages, however one of the changes descriptions sounds as if the duration between tax increases is reduced by 20% - which if true would be a disadvantage (because if the duration between tax increases is 20% shorter then the next tax raise would come sooner)
The XML-entry reads:
<iTaxRateThresholdModifier>-20</iTaxRateThresholdModifier>

"Charismatic" for comparison has
<iTaxRateThresholdModifier>100</iTaxRateThresholdModifier>

So - is that entry for Sophisticated botched and it should be 20 (as in +20)? Or is charismatic wrong?

 

[raystuttgart]

Thanks I need to check it.
One of the modmods that were merged into RaR after I had retired from RaR, heavily rebalanced the traits.

I currently suspect it was not properly reviewed / checked / tested by 4-eyes-principle.
Maybe however some things were done purposely but in the current team simply nobody knows anymore.

One of the issues I see is that there was no "technical lead" and a lack of "4-eyes-principle" for the last years that clarified and checked all changes and thus kept an overview of all activities.
Trust is of course necessary but checking quality does not mean you do not trust the others because everybody can and will make small mistakes sometimes. Even the best modders will.

We are now working hard again to ramp up our internal quality control again though.
(We do not have a "technical lead" anymore but we agreed to improve our internal quality control by checking each others work.)

Edit:
@ConjurerDragon

You were right, it was a mistake in XML.
Many thanks for your continuous effort to report bugs. It really helps us.

I corrected it in our internal version which we will hopefully release soon.
(There is currently though still work in progress which needs to be finished.)

 

[Marla_Singer]

Answering here to @Kendon and @raystuttgart who posted this on the RAR old forum:

I'm playing the "1650 AD" scenario on "We the People". I tried the first 50 turns for all the colonies except Russia.
Denmark, far to the north, and Sweden with one small surrounded settlement look like they'll be the most challenging.
I played France up to 1705 when it crashed. I started again back a few turns and it crashed again at the same date.
My next try was Sweden. The strategy was to get a second settlement in the New Orleans area, abandon the vulnerable site between France and England, and then start settling the North America interior. That worked well up to 1712 when the game crashed.
Two crashes make me suspect it could be an ongoing problem.
If there's an easy fix that would be great. I realize the map is the same every time but that's okay. Chess players often replay classic games to see where small changes make a big difference.

Hi Kendon,

I can not guarantee that "1650 AD" scenario really still works in WTP (because I have not checked).
However, please do not post here in old RaR forum if you are experiencing problems using WTP.

Please post in our new "We the People" forum.
Please ideally use this thread for bug reporting.

The scenario "1650 AD" was never officially integrated in RaR or now WTP so it was simply not maintained.
If Marla_Singer would like to, it could be intgrated and thus maintained to stay compatible with our future releases.

Marla_Singer would of course keep all credits.
(All I will do is to make sure that it is still / again compatible.)

I will ask her, if she would like that.

The scenario had 2 components :

• The map in itself : It's basically a map starting point describing the situation tile by tile in XML (terrains, features, units, cities). The scenario did use PROFESSION_TOWN_GUARD so it would be wise to replace all those tags with PROFESSION_COLONIAL_MILITIA. However, an unrecognized profession apparently doesn't make crash the game, and if it should, it would on first turn.
• CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml (optional) : I don't know if @Kendon use it as it's totally optional. The problem in starting a game in 1650 AD and playing at normal speed is that the game could quickly reach the 20th century, which is a bit weird. The file was only adding an extra speed named "1650 start" with a new month incrementation per turn in order to end during the 18th century. I can't see what could be wrong here as well.

From what I remember, the AI was a bit struggling with the Spanish Empire, as it had many colonies scattered from Mexico to Argentina. It was pointlessly building armies of oxcart chariots that it was sending from top North to bottom South. With RAR it wasn't necessarily a problem, maybe it was slowing down the game a bit but it wasn't crashing it.

I don't know well enough what would have potentially been removed from RAR 2.2 to WTP to see any other thing that could make the map crash. Have you made changes in forts? They are used on the map, even though I remember the AI wasn't maintaining defensive units on them. Sorry if this doesn't help.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Here's the 1650AD scenario with PROFESSION_TOWN_GUARD being replaced with PROFESSION_COLONIAL_MILITIA.

 

[raystuttgart]

Hi Marla,

thanks for your response.

A) Yes, Profession TOWN_GUARD was removed. Currently it is not part of WTP.
But we decided that we are going to build it back in. This will take some time though until this will be published.

B) AI should not pointlessly be building Oxcarts anymore. I even believe it was changed improved already in RaR.
I am not 100% sure though but we did not get any more complaints to my knowledge.

C) Forts have been changed a lot as well.
They still exist but have been improved and AI also knows how to defend and handle them.

D) About changes since RAR 2.2 until WTP 2.7.3 (our upcoming release): Well, a lot. Since then years have passed.
We would need to check how much it actually affects your map though.

E) About CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml: I would not integrate it into WTP because I do not like to modify the core mod configuration for a single map.
(But if we change the setting of the MAP to GameSpeed "Marathon" or whatever it should still work.)

Summary:

Most likely it will be possible to make your map compatible with WTP but it would be some work.
With a debug-DLL we should be able to find out all problems.

You still have not answered my question though if you want the map to be integrated into WTP directly? (Of course you would get credits. )
If not, we can not guarantee that it will be maintained and working when players use it with WTP. (But I can also understand if you do not want that.)

 

[Marla_Singer]

E) About CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml: I would not integrate it into WTP because I do not like to modify the core mod configuration for a single map.
(But if we change the setting of the MAP to GameSpeed "Marathon" or whatever it should still work.)

Using Marathon speed is unfortunately not a solution as "Marathon" slows down everything: buildings are 3 times slower to build, units are 3 times more expensive to buy in Europe, pioneers work 3 times slower and so on and so forth.

Marathon only makes the game more tedious, it doesn't make the time period shorter from discovery to war of independence. The easier solution is simply to play the scenario in standard "normal speed" and to discard the fact we end the game in the 1900's. That's not that bad after all.

 

[raystuttgart]

The easier solution is simply to play the scenario in standard "normal speed" and to discard the fact we end the game in the 1900's. That's not that bad after all.

Sounds good to me as well.

It is your map and you can decide how you want to have it.
It is also completely your choice if you want us to integrate it directly in WTP or not.

 

[raystuttgart]

You still have not answered my question though if you want the map to be integrated into WTP directly? (Of course you would get credits. )

@Marla_Singer
I still do not know if we should integrate 1650AD scenario into WTP directly or not.
(There has not been a clear answer to this yet. Everything you decide is perfectly ok though. It is your map after all.)

 

[Marla_Singer]

@Marla_Singer
I still do not know if we should integrate 1650AD scenario into WTP directly or not.
(There has not been a clear answer to this yet. Everything you decide is perfectly ok though. It is your map after all.)

Of course you can, sorry for not having answered more clearly.
It requires getting fixed first though, and I'm currently working on another project, so I cannot guarantee I'll be able to play test it soon.

@Kendon: do you have any save game right before the crash? Could you post it here? You only need to zip it first.

 

[raystuttgart]

Of course you can, sorry for not having answered more clearly.

Great.
(Sorry that I explicitly asked again, but I rather ask before angering another modder.)

It requires getting fixed first though, ...

I know, I would try to check it with a Debug-DLL or Assert-DLL in Autoplay.
We should get it fixed / comaptible again, do not worry.

Probably not for the upcoming release though.
I will need a bit of time for this and am pretty busy this weekend.

It would also be great if we get the current release out as soon as possible.
I am really eagerly waiting to use it as a clean base for the new features.

 

[OzzyKP]

I just had an offer from the king to buy some conquistadors, it didn't give me the option to accept due to lack of funds, but I clearly had enough:

I think I earned a lot of gold from domestic markets & taverns. The sequencing seems to be off then. The code to generate this event should happen at the end of the queue so it can take into consideration your auto-generated income.

 

[Kendon]

[QUOTE="Marla_Singer, post:
@Kendon: do you have any save game right before the crash? Could you post it here? You only need to zip it first.[/QUOTE]

I tried zipping but was told I didn't have an allowed extension, maybe because I chose self-extracting. Here's the original file which has been crashing reliably when I reach AD-1705-July. If you can't open it I'll try zipping again.

I was sad when it happened. I even had a tame wolf.

I've now added the zip file, though it's not much smaller than the original.

 

[raystuttgart]

I just had an offer from the king to buy some conquistadors, it didn't give me the option to accept due to lack of funds, but I clearly had enough:
I think I earned a lot of gold from domestic markets & taverns. The sequencing seems to be off then. The code to generate this event should happen at the end of the queue so it can take into consideration your auto-generated income.

That is a known bug.
(And we have it in our issue list.)

It is related to the way DLL-DIPLO events being calculated in the previous round.
Then at the end of that round or at the beginning of the new round things can change the gold amount.

The positive at least: It is not able to break the game.
But of course it is annoying.

Until know we have not yet fixed it.
It is also not that easy to fix but there are possible technical solution ideas.
(And yes, the solution would most likely need to change the order of logics but that is more difficult than it sounds.)

 

[ConjurerDragon]

In my current game (Gigantic Americas, Conquistador, Marathon Speed) I received a Converted Native from a native village.

After a reload I got the popup if I would want that Converted Native to "Live with the Natives" and become an Expert Sugar Planter (which would mean that I could turn him to a Free Colonist in any city, practically making Converted Natives somewhat superfluous).

Is that intended? Or shouldn’t a guy who just turned away from the teachings of their ancestors be unable to become a specialist by Living with the Natives?

 

[Marla_Singer]

Just so you know, playing Marathon doesn't offer more depth compared with normal speed. It's only that everything is slowed down thrice. There's no possibility to expand more or anything compared to normal speed. You only play 3 turns where you would play 1.

RAR Americas gigantic map is unfortunately set by default on "marathon" speed, inciting people to pick that option.

I would really be grateful if on line 4 of the map, the "GAMESPEED_TAC_MARATHON" tag would be changed into "GAMESPEED_TAC_NORMAL".

 

[raystuttgart]

Is that intended?

Yes it is.
(Converted Natives can also be taught in Schools.)

We once had it that "Converted Natives" could not "Live with Natives" to become an Expert.
Then other players complained again and did not like it.

It simply is not possible with things like that to make everybody happy.
(Personal taste is simply too different from player to player.)

The only once that cannot be taught in Native Villages are "Native Slaves", "African Slaves" and "Indentured Criminals".
They will first have to use the "Become Free"-Subfeature of "Learning by Doing".

... practically making Converted Natives somewhat superfluous ...

Not really because they Converted Natives have other Bonusses as well, which you will loose once you have him become a "Sugar Planter".
But of course if you really want to have a Sugar Planter, the choice is easy.

It is definitely not a bug though.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Just so you know, playing Marathon doesn't offer more depth compared with normal speed. It's only that everything is slowed down thrice. There's no possibility to expand more or anything compared to normal speed. You only play 3 turns where you would play 1.

RAR Americas gigantic map is unfortunately set by default on "marathon" speed, inciting people to pick that option.

I would really be grateful if on line 4 of the map, the "GAMESPEED_TAC_MARATHON" tag would be changed into "GAMESPEED_TAC_NORMAL".

Actually I do like marathon speed.
In the original Colonization time started with 1 turn = 1 year and as far as I remember after 100 years changed to 1 turn = 6 months to simulate that less happened in the first century. So I do like to have more than just 300 turns/years as on normal gamespeed.
It would naturally be better if that would be something like 1200 turns, or 1 turn / season but then there should be only 1 harvest season, too.

 

[raystuttgart]

Guys, discussions about GameSpeed of Maps / Scnarios are again only Personal Taste.
There is no "right" or "wrong" with this ..., thus it is definitely also no bug.

Some people prefer to play on "Marathon", some people prefer to play on "Normal" ...
How should we make everybody happy? And we are not going to argue about Personal Taste of people either.

Should we duplicate every single map for every single GameSpeed?
This would dramatically increase our effort to maintain these maps.

Please stay realistic.
We cannot create everybodies personal taste mod ...

Everybody can adjust maps to his personal taste and simply put them into the standard map folder of his User Profile.
(Which is independent of the Mod.)

 

[Marla_Singer]

As the author of the map, I would be grateful if the default speed would be normal. That wouldn't prevent any player to change to Marathon when opening the scenario.