Web Developer vs Web Programmer

[warpus]

A bit of an esoteric question.

My job title is changing from "Web Developer" to "Web Programmer", apparently. I have not been consulted over this - the higher-ups are screwing around again.

I'm not sure if Web Programmer fully explains what I do. Web Developer is a bit more vague, and I always felt that it was a bit more fitting.

What do I do, anyway? I create web applications - I design the database, write server-side code, build the GUI, write front-end js/ajax code, create all the html and css, sometimes create graphics that I need for the GUI, and I do all sorts of maintenance that goes along with that (web server, database, etc.)

So what am I and what would be a better title for me?

 

[Genocidicbunny]

If you design the stuff you're a developer, if you only follow a set design and then create it, you're a programmer. It sounds like you do both, so Web Developer would suit you better imho. That, and it sounds better in general. Web programmer sounds like you're just following orders, developer sounds like you create something.
this is just imho.

 

[warpus]

Well, what do you mean by "design the stuff" ? The graphics I don't really design per se, some of the layout I do from time to time, the actual system behind the scenes - I design that.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

I would say web developer is slightly more accurate title than web programmer. I would say a web programmer writes code either server side(php) or client side(javascript). A web designer designs the layout and picks the colors(css). A web developer is some ambiguous amalgamation of the two.

 

[Fetus4188]

Web developer tells me that it's a position that requires more original thought through designing the applications. I'd suggest you try to get it switched back.

 

[Genocidicbunny]

Well, what do you mean by "design the stuff" ? The graphics I don't really design per se, some of the layout I do from time to time, the actual system behind the scenes - I design that.

Exactly. You think up and create the system, instead of just following some set guidelines. As Fetus4188 said, it requires more original thought.

 

[Mise]

A Web Designer designs the stuff and how the page might look like, the Developer thinks how to implement it and co-ordinates the bits and bobs, the Programmer does most of the actual work.

I'd say you were both a Developer and a Programmer.

 

[mdwh]

Personally I still think of "programming" as involving design issues too. I would have thought that most "programming" jobs in practice still involve thinking about the design of the program, algorithms, and so on.

If you wanted to specify literally just writing the code, I'd use "coder". Are there really many jobs where someone just codes, and has someone spoon-feed them exactly what to code, even down to what algorithms they must use?

They're all different ways of covering similar things. My job title has "engineer" in it, but I tell people I'm a programmer or developer, and have never thought they'd see any difference between the latter two terms.

 

[Padma]

As a senior software engineer, I have become somewhat familiar with how *management* sees many of these titles.

Almost nobody uses "Coder" as a job title - it would be very much a "put-down" for anyone in that position. You can train a monkey to write code. This would be the lowest-paid position in the software field.

A "Programmer" is someone who writes code, and has some limited development responsibilities . As in, you get to write 'this piece' of the program, and design how it does what it should do. *Others* will provide specs on its interfaces, etc.

A "Developer" is a Programmer, who may have greater design opportunities/responsibilities. Programmers and Developers pretty much share the same pay scales, with Developers generally having a slightly higher pay for equivalent experience, etc.

An "Engineer" is someone who is responsible for the overall development of the program. They are expected to be skilled in coding, designing, testing, etc. They will usually be responsible for designing the overall flow of a large program, including how the various parts interface with each other, and with the outside world. (Graphics designers and "Human Interface Specialists" often assist with the end-user interface.) Since they are considered more skilled than a "mere" Programmer, they get correspondingly higher pay.

 

[LucyDuke]

I'd call you a developer. I have absolutely nothing to back this up with.

 

[mdwh]

As a senior software engineer, I have become somewhat familiar with how *management* sees many of these titles.

Almost nobody uses "Coder" as a job title - it would be very much a "put-down" for anyone in that position. You can train a monkey to write code. This would be the lowest-paid position in the software field.

A "Programmer" is someone who writes code, and has some limited development responsibilities . As in, you get to write 'this piece' of the program, and design how it does what it should do. *Others* will provide specs on its interfaces, etc.

A "Developer" is a Programmer, who may have greater design opportunities/responsibilities. Programmers and Developers pretty much share the same pay scales, with Developers generally having a slightly higher pay for equivalent experience, etc.

An "Engineer" is someone who is responsible for the overall development of the program. They are expected to be skilled in coding, designing, testing, etc. They will usually be responsible for designing the overall flow of a large program, including how the various parts interface with each other, and with the outside world. (Graphics designers and "Human Interface Specialists" often assist with the end-user interface.) Since they are considered more skilled than a "mere" Programmer, they get correspondingly higher pay.

In your company - but I don't think there's any evidence of a consensus. E.g., in my company, everyone's an "engineer", but it doesn't match up to your usage, and the term applies whatever level we're at, and however much control we have.

I think a lot of it is also down to how companies work, rather than the skills of the employees. E.g., I'd argue that it's always good practice that someone else provides the requirements, and a third person writes the tests (otherwise the person writing the software may take shortcuts in what's required, and only test what he knows works - I don't mean that maliciously, it's easy to do that without realising). I'd still call the person writing the software a developer or engineer, just as much as a programmer. But in my area of the company, we mainly tend to just have the same person writing the tests, because that's how we work, rather than the positions of the people we've got employed. And even though I generally design the interface, and write the tests, I don't make decisions regarding the overall direction of the software. The people who do make those decisions are management, but they don't have a different title as far as engineer/programmer/developer is concerned.

I'd disagree that a monkey can write code - I mean, try teaching the ins and outs of C++ to a computer newbie, for example - although yes, as I say, pure coders don't exist as anyone competent enough to design the algorithm is also capable of writing the code themselves; there's no need to have a separate step of having someone else do the translation from algorithm to code.

Personally I'd say it's more down to taste - "coder" is way too informal for a professional job title; I think that "developer" is more professional sounding than "programmer", and yes, I think that suggesting someone "develops" sounds more impressive than someone who merely "tells a computer what to do", but that's more just two ways of looking at what's in practice the same thing.

 

[warpus]

I'd call you a developer. I have absolutely nothing to back this up with.

That's what everyone else is going to be calling me as well, as I just had a talk with my boss and his response was "consider it done".

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Generally, if you are implementing web application frameworks then you are a web developer, if you are writing them you are a web programmer.

 

[warpus]

Generally, if you are implementing web application frameworks then you are a web developer, if you are writing them you are a web programmer.

I don't understand the distinction.. or do you mean this the other way around?

 

[WhiteEagle22]

I would say you a "Web Developer" by the sound of it. What you do is similar to what a friend of mine does (he even created his own CMS [even if he based it off another CMS]).

I would call myself a "Web Programmer". I don't design themes, I look for ones other people have already designed and adapt them to what I need done. I have yet to code a CMS or other major web software app for that matter, so that's why I call myself a programmer and not a developer. I couldn't even create a decent graphic if I had to.

 

[wolfigor]

according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineer

Prior to the mid-1990s, most software practitioners called themselves programmers or developers, regardless of their actual jobs. Many people prefer to call themselves software developer and programmer, because most widely agree what these terms mean, while software engineer is still being debated.

The term programmer has often been used as a pejorative term to refer to those without the tools, skills, education, or ethics to write good quality software. In response, many practitioners called themselves software engineers to escape the stigma attached to the word programmer. In many companies, the titles programmer and software developer were changed to software engineer, for many categories of programmers.

These terms cause confusion, because some denied any differences (arguing that everyone does essentially the same thing with software) while others use the terms to create a difference (because the terms mean completely different jobs).

 

[damunzy]

I'd go with Padma's great descriptions. That is what I saw in my 5 years as a Software Test Engineer.....let's not get into Testing titles.

 

[Genocidicbunny]

I'd go with Padma's great descriptions. That is what I saw in my 5 years as a Software Test Engineer.....let's not get into Testing titles.

Gods, my mom did QC for a while, and every 10 weeks it seems her title changed. Getting a brand new box of business cards became a fairly regular appearance.

 

[Padma]

I based my descriptions on the many companies I worked for, or alongside, primarily DOD contractors. (TRW, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, SAIC, etc.) I would have agreed that this could be considered a "single case" (DOD Contractors), but I currently work for a "normal" telecommunications company, and the distinctions still seem to fit.

And, yes, since any developer should work closely with testers, I got to know how often their titles changed, too.

 

[warpus]

Hmm speaking of which.

What would be the next step up, in terms of fancy term for what I do? Web Developer is nice, but I can probably get that changed to something a bit more impressive sounding.

Web Software Engineer? Nahh that's not quite right.. any ideas?