WH Mod Expansion Discussion
- Thread starter Mr. Do
- Start date
Yes, let's be a little selective about the units we ask for!
Incidentally, Frostyboy, not that I'm going to put it in the mod, but did you come up with the Elemental idea on your own, or were you inspired by the fact that GW are re-releasing the four elemental models? I'm just curious if this is coincidence or not.
Incidentally, Frostyboy, not that I'm going to put it in the mod, but did you come up with the Elemental idea on your own, or were you inspired by the fact that GW are re-releasing the four elemental models? I'm just curious if this is coincidence or not.
fe3333au
Deity
I did say that is was a small detail regarding elf settler ... the dwarf settler however was valid as it got confusing with worker being the same graphic ... 
I am rediscovering the joys of this mod all over again ...
... while eagerly waiting as we all are July to come ... So will post things I find incongruous ...
OT- frustrated with elves atm due to no early offensive unit ... but will try altering gameplay ...
EDIT -
Damn just took closer look at tech tree ...
aaglo
Furioso!
Mr. Do said:
They are? When? And where? And most of all - why
?And what are these talks about bringing back the chaos dwarfs with an official updated armylist?
They're re-releasing many monsters and other collectors' models, like the Elementals:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110299045&orignav=13
Talks of bringing back Chaos Dwarfs properly are probably false. I doubt it'll happen until 2007 at the earliest.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110299045&orignav=13
Talks of bringing back Chaos Dwarfs properly are probably false. I doubt it'll happen until 2007 at the earliest.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
I've got another suggestion (which may have been made before), a mix of flavour and balancing - Make it impossible to put flying units and other ATRers in armies by giving all units but them the "foot unit" flag, and making armies "transport foot units only".
Flavour - Many ATRers are meant to be stealthy assassins and huntsmen at one with the terrain - any army of them traveling as one unit doesn't really make sense to me.
Balance - Dragon armies and other flyers are horribly overpowered, with 6+ attacks and free pillage you can rape the AI very easily. With these excluded, the most powerful armies will be composed of knights, ogres, vampires, and what have you - weak enough for the AI to attack with its Dragons, restoring some balance.
Anyway, just a bit of food for thought...
@fe3333au - Eh? elves get swords and archers at the same time everyone else does, and their fast speed means they don't really need a riding level Horseman unit. Edit, saw your edit
Flavour - Many ATRers are meant to be stealthy assassins and huntsmen at one with the terrain - any army of them traveling as one unit doesn't really make sense to me.
Balance - Dragon armies and other flyers are horribly overpowered, with 6+ attacks and free pillage you can rape the AI very easily. With these excluded, the most powerful armies will be composed of knights, ogres, vampires, and what have you - weak enough for the AI to attack with its Dragons, restoring some balance.
Anyway, just a bit of food for thought...
@fe3333au - Eh? elves get swords and archers at the same time everyone else does, and their fast speed means they don't really need a riding level Horseman unit. Edit, saw your edit
First i want to congratulate you on the mod and second i have a few suggestionas for the next version (i think that there all posible).
Firstly i would like to suggest you make a version with a map.
secondly is it posible to have a hidden resauce, like on rhye's that only lizardmen use, from one of there tech's and put it in the jungle (on a world map if you're doing one) or say it only goes on jungle and give it a realy high aperence ratio. you could do the same for orcs, goblins, dwarves, chaos dwarves and ogres (if there out in the next version) but on mountains.
thirdly i would like to suggest two slann teams as one controling lustria and southlands would be too much, because they didn't all agree allk the time anyway and because they use different armies. If you do this they should be in a locked aliance.
Also lizzies should not have reduced plague affects, they often sufferd terrific deseaced from the hands of the skaven.
lastly, i'm shure it was suggested before and don't apologise in advance if i cover old ground, but couldent you have two stages for khemri one before they all died and one after.
now i opologise if some of my suggestions have already been said but the are three warhammer threads and i could not go through them all, but i wend through the last few posts on this and the dowload thread and couldent find them.
Firstly i would like to suggest you make a version with a map.
secondly is it posible to have a hidden resauce, like on rhye's that only lizardmen use, from one of there tech's and put it in the jungle (on a world map if you're doing one) or say it only goes on jungle and give it a realy high aperence ratio. you could do the same for orcs, goblins, dwarves, chaos dwarves and ogres (if there out in the next version) but on mountains.
thirdly i would like to suggest two slann teams as one controling lustria and southlands would be too much, because they didn't all agree allk the time anyway and because they use different armies. If you do this they should be in a locked aliance.
Also lizzies should not have reduced plague affects, they often sufferd terrific deseaced from the hands of the skaven.
lastly, i'm shure it was suggested before and don't apologise in advance if i cover old ground, but couldent you have two stages for khemri one before they all died and one after.
now i opologise if some of my suggestions have already been said but the are three warhammer threads and i could not go through them all, but i wend through the last few posts on this and the dowload thread and couldent find them.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
As WHmod fan to another, I'll try and answer your questions...
There already are some maps floating about I think, and anyway Mr Do's possible alterations will be to the random map, which can then be put into premade maps if you want.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean - If your talking about bonus resources, but only for some races, then thats entirely possible on a pre-made map (don't need to bother with appearence ratios then) but on a random map it would screw up the distribution of the non-specialised reasources (the random map generator will only place a certian number of bonus reasources). If the extra resources are stratigic or luxuries then the AIs would alter their settling patterns even if they can't use them. Finally theres not really any room left in the starting tech boxes to really give resource bonuses to every civ that could have them.
Yes entirely possible on a premade map but you would need a new LH, units (if they vary that much) and so on. But in the random map are they really different enough to be made two Civs?
Well they suffer less than humans if I remember, and they do need some advantage to living in jungles.
Mr Do is way ahead of you there
Hope thats answered your points...
kairob said:
There already are some maps floating about I think, and anyway Mr Do's possible alterations will be to the random map, which can then be put into premade maps if you want.
kairob said:
I'm not entirely sure what you mean - If your talking about bonus resources, but only for some races, then thats entirely possible on a pre-made map (don't need to bother with appearence ratios then) but on a random map it would screw up the distribution of the non-specialised reasources (the random map generator will only place a certian number of bonus reasources). If the extra resources are stratigic or luxuries then the AIs would alter their settling patterns even if they can't use them. Finally theres not really any room left in the starting tech boxes to really give resource bonuses to every civ that could have them.
kairob said:
Yes entirely possible on a premade map but you would need a new LH, units (if they vary that much) and so on. But in the random map are they really different enough to be made two Civs?
kairob said:
Well they suffer less than humans if I remember, and they do need some advantage to living in jungles.
kairob said:
Mr Do is way ahead of you there
Hope thats answered your points...
fe3333au
Deity
Bit confused ...
Just looked under Military Training in civilopedia ... there are a number of chariot references ...
>Chaos Chariots can be built by Lahmia, Ind, Cathy and Hordes of Chaos
>Chariot (one horse graphic) says the same
>Chariot (2 horse graphic) again says the same
All three have the same stats ... is this why? ...
EDIT ... just checked out swordmen references ... similar scenario ...
So is it the case that all units with the same set of statistics link to the same reference in the Civilopedia?
Still in does read strange that Chaos Chariot can be created by the other 3 races ...
Just looked under Military Training in civilopedia ... there are a number of chariot references ...
>Chaos Chariots can be built by Lahmia, Ind, Cathy and Hordes of Chaos
>Chariot (one horse graphic) says the same
>Chariot (2 horse graphic) again says the same
All three have the same stats ... is this why? ...
EDIT ... just checked out swordmen references ... similar scenario ...
So is it the case that all units with the same set of statistics link to the same reference in the Civilopedia?
Still in does read strange that Chaos Chariot can be created by the other 3 races ...
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
Here are some tweaks/changes I would like to see in the upcomming version that I think would allow for some more varied game strategies/develpoment.
Wealth
Increase Shield cost Per gold from 4 to 8
Caravans
Has Double effect of Wealth flag (to counter increase of base Shield cost Per Gold and to make Caravans tech more interesting even if you can't build any of the 2 wonders)
Seafaring
Requires both Trade and Ship Building to research
No longer required for age advancement.
Astronomy
Has Enables trade over sea tiles flag (to counter the non requirement of Seafaring)
Dragon's Cave
Strategic resource that allows player to build dragons that are CHEAPER than the dragons available without access to the Dragon's Cave resource (but otherwise identical to the regular dragons).
I would love to have the various "Space Ship" parts require a good variety of resource/luxuries to build also (Dragon's Cave for The Eye of Sheerian etc.
), since it is currently too easy to dig yourself in and just build the 10 parts. Perhaps even make some of the last parts (Laihtendrung at least) require player to have 1-3 armies before they can be build also.
Wealth
Increase Shield cost Per gold from 4 to 8
Caravans
Has Double effect of Wealth flag (to counter increase of base Shield cost Per Gold and to make Caravans tech more interesting even if you can't build any of the 2 wonders)
Seafaring
Requires both Trade and Ship Building to research
No longer required for age advancement.
Astronomy
Has Enables trade over sea tiles flag (to counter the non requirement of Seafaring)
Dragon's Cave
Strategic resource that allows player to build dragons that are CHEAPER than the dragons available without access to the Dragon's Cave resource (but otherwise identical to the regular dragons).
I would love to have the various "Space Ship" parts require a good variety of resource/luxuries to build also (Dragon's Cave for The Eye of Sheerian etc.
), since it is currently too easy to dig yourself in and just build the 10 parts. Perhaps even make some of the last parts (Laihtendrung at least) require player to have 1-3 armies before they can be build also.I tried to get embryodead to do this, but he didn't find enough fitting resources, so he never did.CyberChrist said:...I would love to have the various "Space Ship" parts require a good variety of resource/luxuries to build also (Dragon's Cave for The Eye of Sheerian etc.
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
How about the following requirements?
The Doomfire Ring
Req.Res.: Iron and Gems
The Horn of Urgok
Req.Res.: Elephants and Incense (for the rituals to impower the horn)
The Crown of Command
Req.Res.: Iron and Furs
Sunfang
Req.Res.: Iron and Wine (used as temper)
Ghal-Maraz
Req.Res.: Iron and Pipeweed (well ... the smith insisted)
The Claw of Nagash
Req.Res.: Warpstone and Griffons (the claw)
The Forbidden Rod
Req.Res.: Warpstone and Elephants (for the Ivory)
The Eye of Sheerian
Req.Res.: Dragon's Cave and Spices (to conceal posion on meat given to dragon - heh)
Also require 1 army (to kill the dragon - a dragon as powerfull as Sheerian don't die from poison alone )
The Crown of Domination
Req.Res.: Warpstone and Silk
Also require 2 armies (need to make sure the Crown actually work )
Laihtendrung
Req.Res.: Iron and Brightstone
Also require 3 armies (this Laihtero is hard to find - need some serious expeditions to locate
)
The Doomfire Ring
Req.Res.: Iron and Gems
The Horn of Urgok
Req.Res.: Elephants and Incense (for the rituals to impower the horn)
The Crown of Command
Req.Res.: Iron and Furs
Sunfang
Req.Res.: Iron and Wine (used as temper)
Ghal-Maraz
Req.Res.: Iron and Pipeweed (well ... the smith insisted)
The Claw of Nagash
Req.Res.: Warpstone and Griffons (the claw)
The Forbidden Rod
Req.Res.: Warpstone and Elephants (for the Ivory)
The Eye of Sheerian
Req.Res.: Dragon's Cave and Spices (to conceal posion on meat given to dragon - heh)
Also require 1 army (to kill the dragon - a dragon as powerfull as Sheerian don't die from poison alone
)The Crown of Domination
Req.Res.: Warpstone and Silk
Also require 2 armies (need to make sure the Crown actually work
)Laihtendrung
Req.Res.: Iron and Brightstone
Also require 3 armies (this Laihtero is hard to find - need some serious expeditions to locate
)
fe3333au
Deity
That sounds fantastic and logical also ... well done
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Slight problem with the army requirements - how often is the AI going to be able to do that? Not much of a 'race' if your the only one running
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
True, perhaps make a small wonder (or let one one everyone can get that is already in the game) produce armies at a reasonable interval. A nice way to see some AI armies anyway
EDIT: Grand School of War perhaps? 1 Army every 50 turns?
EDIT: Grand School of War perhaps? 1 Army every 50 turns?
Commander Jac
Chieftain
About Wonders and Quest (Space) Victory .
Mmmm...
I think that all system of quest victory could be redone.
Quest Victory is described as locating and owning mighty artifacts, but in game all civs hurrying up to make their own Ghal-MAraz, Claw of Nagash or whatsoever..
It could be more "realistic" - like:
All 10 artifacts are normal great wonders that have their advantages (claw of nagash will produce ghouls for example or whatsoever), will require luxury and strategical resources to build.
Quest Wictory Wonder should be one, and will require all 10 artifacts under civ control. (Name : Domination ???? %o) )
Such civ will attack civ just to own lone artifact they have... Sounds more realistic but i really dont know if AI will "understand" whom to attack to get closer to domination.
Mmmm...
I think that all system of quest victory could be redone.
Quest Victory is described as locating and owning mighty artifacts, but in game all civs hurrying up to make their own Ghal-MAraz, Claw of Nagash or whatsoever..
It could be more "realistic" - like:
All 10 artifacts are normal great wonders that have their advantages (claw of nagash will produce ghouls for example or whatsoever), will require luxury and strategical resources to build.
Quest Wictory Wonder should be one, and will require all 10 artifacts under civ control. (Name : Domination ???? %o) )
Such civ will attack civ just to own lone artifact they have... Sounds more realistic but i really dont know if AI will "understand" whom to attack to get closer to domination.
In 2.02 ed changed the army to hold only 2 units. I'm not so fond of that, as it makes them more vulnerable.
This change was done as the C3C AI has problems using armies, especially with filling them with more than one unit.
In LOTM we will (try to) help the AI by only allowing one unit in the Army, but we give it a +8 HP bonus, this making it as powerful as an old army.
We also remove most of the "need a victorious army" prereqs, and make a SW that spawns armies every 32nd turn.
This seems to work ok, I've even seen an enemy army in a game.
I think that these changes would be very good for WH too, and I believe that ED would like them too (or at least the general idea, though some particular stuff could be bad).
This change was done as the C3C AI has problems using armies, especially with filling them with more than one unit.
In LOTM we will (try to) help the AI by only allowing one unit in the Army, but we give it a +8 HP bonus, this making it as powerful as an old army.
We also remove most of the "need a victorious army" prereqs, and make a SW that spawns armies every 32nd turn.
This seems to work ok, I've even seen an enemy army in a game.
I think that these changes would be very good for WH too, and I believe that ED would like them too (or at least the general idea, though some particular stuff could be bad).
Commander Jac
Chieftain
Mr. Do said:
Heh, but all what i mean that 10 parts(artifacts) would be normal Great Wonders, And only one last Wonder will be real Quest Wonder (will require all 10 great wonder under civ vontrol) that will finish the game.
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