Kozmos
Jew Detective
Tether is almost certainly going down. They are basically printing USD which won't be allowed to stand.
What are your thoughts on BitCoin?
- Thread starter aimeeandbeatles
- Start date
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
So I think LTC dropping to 90 or 80 is entirely possible if not lower.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I mean, to be completely honest with you, this crash could very well be the end of crypto alltogether. Any crash can. As long as there are enough people willing to pull out, as long as there is panic and as long as the exclusively negative coverage in the news won't go away (it won't) then I don't really see crypto recovering.
We are back to early december stats, maybe worse than early december depending on what you are looking at.
Mise
isle of lucy
I fell like you're not addressing the substance of his post. For example, you say things like "as long as there are enough people willing to pull out", whereas El Mac's point is that this is better stated as "as long as there are no customers for the product".
Mise
isle of lucy
So are you lads selling up now? Waiting for it to go up again before buying? I know you said you were moving to other cryptocurrencies but it looks like they're all going down in tandem? https://coincodex.com/ <-- 1m change is basically all negative.
Another thing I found interesting, there are 634 different cryptocurrencies with over $1m market cap. Unbelievable.
Another thing I found interesting, there are 634 different cryptocurrencies with over $1m market cap. Unbelievable.
Silurian
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2010
- Messages
- 7,567
Lloyds Bank in the UK has stopped its customers from using its credit cards to buy bit coin from Today.
They can still use debit cards.
I expect the other banks to follow as there is a possible risk of customers coming after the banks if bitcoin falls due to manipulation.
From Which
"Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the credit card company is jointly and severally liable for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the retailer or trader."
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act
They can still use debit cards.
I expect the other banks to follow as there is a possible risk of customers coming after the banks if bitcoin falls due to manipulation.
From Which
"Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the credit card company is jointly and severally liable for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the retailer or trader."
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
If I had more than just a few hunna in crypto I would have sold at the last dead cat bounce in order to buy in when it dips again (which it will). I think Narz did that with Litecoin. Honestly, I see the market bleeding for weeks to come. Looks like news are also especially negative the last few days meaning less money will flood in.
Yes, all crypto is going down in tandem, altcoins are still coupled to BTC after all. maybe you could move your money to one that isn't affected as bad by the crashes like NEO, but then that is still pure speculation. The only way to be safe is to convert to FIAT.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
I have a limit buy on ltc at 110. I think ltc will get another bounce before falling further when litepay launches(launch will help prices) I have to wait until tether resolves to fully commit.
Narz
keeping it real
I'm suffering thru. Don't have much bit but a ton of lites, I'm not even gonna look at the cost of my alts. Just gonna hang tough. It would be totally nuts to sell now
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Messages
- 15,377
Funny how all the "miners" who produce this imaginary valuable commodity aim to exchange it for "fiat". Can you get more fiat (as in unbacked by anything real) that a "currency" backed by a number?
I think bitcoin was the best performance art ever!
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Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
I think I can make money during this time though. There's really 2 events this week that could swing price. The one for sure is Litepay, which could be gamechanging whenever it launches as it could change the BTC/LTC ratio for good(already changed 20% this weekend because of upcoming release), and we know it will hit this week. The one other is tether, if it explodes, it will bring everything down with it. So I need to figure out which day this week LTCPAY plans on coming out.
Lexicus
Deity
Is the power of governments to set tax liabilities not real?
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Messages
- 15,377
I'm not going to argue against that. I was just stating the prevalent opinion among cryptothingies aficionados.
It's both real and not real. There is no doubt that fiat currencies have real value encoded in their ability to discharge debt and tax obligations. But they're also only backed by the trustworthiness of the backing government, which can change based on human whims. The majority of fiat currencies have their values maintained at the whim of the issuing authority. If you trust that they will maintain their 2% inflation target, that's one thing. But they also needn't.
I was dealing with this just the other day, since I was trying to figure out how to profit from future phosphorous demand. The owner of the phosphorous won't sell ownership over their portion (which is fair), but I also cannot invest merely by buying the owner's currency, since I have no idea if that government will dilute its own currency in order to soften it.
It requires an extra step in determining the value of the currency, not only do you look at the underlying assets owned by the issuer, but also how much you trust the issuer to maintain a limit on how much they print.
I was dealing with this just the other day, since I was trying to figure out how to profit from future phosphorous demand. The owner of the phosphorous won't sell ownership over their portion (which is fair), but I also cannot invest merely by buying the owner's currency, since I have no idea if that government will dilute its own currency in order to soften it.
It requires an extra step in determining the value of the currency, not only do you look at the underlying assets owned by the issuer, but also how much you trust the issuer to maintain a limit on how much they print.
Lexicus
Deity
So - whence the word 'only' here? Governments are almost by definition some of the most trustworthy entities in human history. There is a reason that all modern economies use "state money". Ideally, "the trustworthiness of the backing government" is simply the trustworthiness of the people themselves, represented through their government. This 'public trust,' built up over many generations, is surely a thing that embodies real value no less than the ability of the government to compel the discharge of debts and the payment of taxes.
I also think it's interesting because you've unwittingly slipped up and fingered the major problem with how the advanced world runs its economies. Economic policy already reflects too much concern for the needs of people who are, like you are in your story, trying to figure out how to profit from owning stuff.
Narz
keeping it real
I picked up some more lite, it's the one I'm most heavily invested in.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Of the bigger coins, lite is the only one I'm invested in. LTC will rebounded harder and quicker than BTC.
Mise
isle of lucy
You could take a punt on miners currently exploring in Australia, Canada or Brazil. I don't know about the geology of where phosphorus reserves are found but if I had to guess it would be one of those places.
So I just looked it up and apparently 70% of global reserves are in Morocco?! Who knew!
Maybe invest in companies who do phosphorus recovery? Again, no idea about the science.
But what am I saying El Mac, if anyone's investigated this to death it's you!
Ha! No, maybe you don't perceive the world with the same eyes as I do, but to call governments sufficiently trustworthy for me to trust them with my longterm speculations is just missing out on history. At best, you can think of a small handful of countries that have maintained their inflation at a reasonable oscillation around 2% for the entirety of my adult life. And, of those, you can think of fewer that went on to not serially bubble their financial markets in the process. And I can flick off a larger handful of developed countries that have violated this ability to manage fiat currency. Remember, not all modern economies use 'state money'. The entirety of the EU springs to mind, and of this list of modern economies, there are still quite a few that violated the public trust placed in their governments to properly titrate their money supply.
I'm happy to place my savings in Canada, but the majority of that is due to just familiarity bias.
As Mise was guessing, I was looking at Morocco. Reasonable inflation rate over the last while, but the only way I can speculate on their phosphorous (in a longerterm sense) is to buy their government bonds. Which means I have to not only speculate on the real value of phosphorous, but on their target inflation rate in 15 years.
I'm not suggesting that there's a better alternative to fiat in developed economies. Looking at the EU, one of their major errors is the Euro without a fiscal union. But your fiat holdings are speculating twice, once on the underlying assets that is protected by debt (and taxes) and the second on the actual trustworthiness of the issuer.
Absolutely, there's a fine line between supporting my ability to turn my capital into speculative capital for production of an essential service and the result we have now, where wealth rushes upwards faster than it trickles downward.
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