What could disprove your religious beliefs?

[Stapel]

Reading Fred's first line, I'd like to say this:

It was not the 'traumatic experience' that made me leave God. It was this 'traumatic experience' that made me think about it.

My first conclusion was that God did not exist in the way it was told me. This didn't make a doubt about the existance of God in the first place. The young & arrogant little Stapel just thougth the referend was wrong, and he thought God existed in another way.

I even remember God speaking to me. He told me what a good young man I was, understanding the referend was wrong. Now I understand I made it all up.

Later in the process I started thinking: If God is not as he is told me to be, AND if God (and his creation) is not like the bible describes, AND if there are so many other theories about God and gods, why believe in this one?

 

[floppa21]

Originally posted by Phydeaux
Well...

1 Seeing whats going to happen before it happens.
2 God speeking to me.
3 God healing me.
4 God just showing me what to do.
5 My spirit being tuched by the holy spirit (God) When that happens I shake and some times fall to the ground.
6 Speeking in tungs, knowing what people say in tungs and anything that has to do with tungs.
I could go on and on...

These things have happend to alot of other people I know too.

This just sounds like you're insane. That #5 especially... That would piss me off personally. I don't think this is true Phydeaux. Are you telling the truth or a tall tale? Honestly now.

 

[floppa21]

Originally posted by Pikachu
My religion would be proven false if it was proved that Jesus never existed or that he was nothing like how the gospels describes him. I don't mean insignificant details like divinity or resurrection, but if it was proven that he was an evil person. To prove this I think we need to find out how to do time travels first.

Time travel is required to PROVE to you something you believe without proof in the first place. I need say nothing else.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

#1- I have enough trouble with what happens before my eyes, last thing I need to know is whats going to happen next.
#2- as long as he isnt rude and interrupts
#3- maybe he could have stopped me from getting sick in the first place
#4- no way, thats what we have mothers and crotchety, old maid aunts for.
#5- could be plain old epilepsy
#6- well, too bad you arent a broad

 

[FredLC]

Originally posted by Stapel
Reading Fred's first line, I'd like to say this:

And just to clear it up, I understand very well what happened to you, and I would never think that it was the trauma, "de per se", that lead you to change your mind.

But I saw that you left an opening that others could exploit, and I decided to close it before it happened.

Regards .

 

[Jorge]

Originally posted by Hitro
Well, obviously this question goes out to those who have religious beliefs, wise a*s answers like "nuttin', I ain't got no religion" are therefore already given.

There are numerous threads in this OT forum alone about Evolution vs. Creation as loads of other religion vs. science topics.
I, like others, usually don't take much part in them because I regard it as futile to discuss things that appear to be on completely different levels. In other words, I've never seen someone saying "oh damn, you're right, my belief makes no sense".

But maybe I am wrong. Maybe there are things that could make religious people change their mind.

So do they exist?

Can someone believing in Creation even imagining seeing a solid proof for a different truth (like Evolution)?

Would the discovery of extraterrestrial life (not necessarily intelligent life!) change your views?

Which other views would be changed by what?

Or is it not imaginable at all?

Oh my, I started a religious thread...

He, what a question.

I think people who blindy believe something without any proof is because they have been brainwashed (although none of them would ever admit this point). If they have been brainwashed once maybe thay can be brainwashed again in the opposite direction.

 

[floppa21]

Too much work for no reward Jorge. Brainwash them back to a clean slate? If they are religous now, they would only become religous again.

Makes me think of LSD and the differences between the people who have the good trips and the bad trips.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by FredLC


And just to clear it up, I understand very well what happened to you, and I would never think that it was the trauma, "de per se", that lead you to change your mind.

But I saw that you left an opening that others could exploit, and I decided to close it before it happened.

Regards .

It was a wise thing to Fred! Thanks.

 

[Phydeaux]

Originally posted by floppa21


This just sounds like you're insane. That #5 especially... That would piss me off personally. I don't think this is true Phydeaux. Are you telling the truth or a tall tale? Honestly now.

Ah just as I said in my quote,

I don't know a way of proving God exists. But God talks to me I talk to Him. I know you think I'm crazy but God still talks just like in the bible. Thats good proof for me.

.

The things of God seem insane to those who do not believe.
I geuss I could be insane, but that would be saying that all the people who have had these things happen to them are insane too, and that would be saying alot.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by jpowers
Well, I don't have religious beliefs, but if a gigantic hand/disembodied head/voice came out of the sky with lots of reliable witnesses, including myself, and performed some sort of miracle, I would have to at least consider the idea.

I am in the same mindset as Mr. Powers.

I would still defy it, however.

 

[WillJ]

What makes something divine is that it exists at least somewhat outside of our known world, can control it, and is a concious being.

The "rules" that govern our world are either somehow naturally just there, or were made up (and possibly changed from time to time) by something divine. It is not known which is the case, and it never can be known. Nothing, no matter what happens, can give certainty to the existance or absence of divinity. Even if a hand comes out from the sky, a Bible magically appears in your hand, and a booming voice is heard saying "I am God," that doesn't mean squat. It could be that it was God, or possibly all of that happened without divine intervention, and if so obviously our physical understanding of the universe is flawed. Therefore, nothing can disprove outright anyone's religious beliefs.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Phydeaux


Ah just as I said in my quote,

.

The things of God seem insane to those who do not believe.
I geuss I could be insane, but that would be saying that all the people who have had these things happen to them are insane too, and that would be saying alot.

Yes, insanity is quite common. The Bible itself states that no one has "special" knowledge of God, so your point would be self-defeating. You personally do not carry on talks with God.

 

[Phydeaux]

Originally posted by archer_007


Yes, insanity is quite common. The Bible itself states that no one has "special" knowledge of God, so your point would be self-defeating. You personally do not carry on talks with God.

I ask God things and most of the time He replys, not with words but in the spirit as it says here,

1 Corinthians 2:12-14

12___Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13___which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
14___But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

 

[Brad]

If God told me he didn't exist... ... . . . .... Wait a second how could he tell me he didn't exist if he didn't exist?

Seriously though... If man actually destroyed the earth and all who reside on it. Nuclear war. Because I don't believe God would let this happen.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Originally posted by Brad
If man actually destroyed the earth and all who reside on it. Nuclear war. Because I don't believe God would let this happen.

The earth is destroyed. Youre dead. Thats when you'll feel that your religous beliefs have been disproved?

 

[nihilistic]

Originally posted by Brad
If God told me he didn't exist... ... . . . .... Wait a second how could he tell me he didn't exist if he didn't exist?

Seriously though... If man actually destroyed the earth and all who reside on it. Nuclear war. Because I don't believe God would let this happen.

There is the principle of falsifiability, which states that a claim or thesis about concrete items in the real world that cannot be tested is irrelevant. If you insist that nothing can change your mind on a particular concrete subject, then it follows that your opinion on that particular subject, even when true, is irrelevant.

 

[Brad]

Posted by nihilistic

"There is the principle of falsifiability, which states that a claim or thesis about concrete items in the real world that cannot be tested is irrelevant. If you insist that nothing can change your mind on a particular concrete subject, then it follows that your opinion on that particular subject, even when true, is irrelevant."

Not nessisarily. For I believe that EVEN IF my views Are false, the principles and moral "laws" that I have tried to live my life by, and for the most part sucseeded in doing so, have been very benificial to me. For if it weren't for these laws and the structure around them I know for a fact that I would be dead.

So maybe to you my beliefes would be irrelivent to me they have been a saving power and a center for my live. For if punisment did not exist for breaking the laws of men, even though they are beneficial, how many of you would still follow them the way you do? My point is, that because I believe what I do, it keeps me on a healthy and moally clean path... that is not irrelivent... to me and the people around me.

 

[Phydeaux]

Ok let me say this more clearly.

Maybe 1 thing, if you could prove that all the things that God did in my life was not God but something or some one else. Then God would be disproved.

What are these things?

Well...

1 Seeing whats going to happen before it happens.
2 God speeking to me.
3 God healing me.
4 God just showing me what to do.
5 My spirit being tuched by the holy spirit (God) When that happens I shake and some times fall to the ground.
6 Speeking in tungs, knowing what people say in tungs and anything that has to do with tungs.
I could go on and on...

These things have happend to alot of other people I know too.

 

[nihilistic]

Originally posted by Brad
Not nessisarily. For I believe that EVEN IF my views Are false, the principles and moral "laws" that I have tried to live my life by, and for the most part sucseeded in doing so, have been very benificial to me. For if it weren't for these laws and the structure around them I know for a fact that I would be dead.

I'm not talking about whether or not they are relevant to you. To science, if you are going to claim something about the real world that cannot be tested, there is simply no point in trying to validate or invalidate your theory. For example, the theory that life is but a dream cannot be proved or disproved within our world. Therefore, even if it is true, it would be devoid of explanability and the ability to predict, thus irrelevant.

 

[Brad]

Originally posted by Phydeaux
Ok let me say this more clearly.

Maybe 1 thing, if you could prove that all the things that God did in my life was not God but something or some one else. Then God would be disproved.

What are these things?

Well...

1 Seeing whats going to happen before it happens.
2 God speeking to me.
3 God healing me.
4 God just showing me what to do.
5 My spirit being tuched by the holy spirit (God) When that happens I shake and some times fall to the ground.
6 Speeking in tungs, knowing what people say in tungs and anything that has to do with tungs.
I could go on and on...

These things have happend to alot of other people I know too.

If you look at the scriptures... if you believe in them, if not this is a pointless post but oh well, you can find a few examples of demons doing these things to people. Just a vauge example. And I'm not trying to disprove God For I believe he exists as well, but demons have been know to do strange things, in bible times and in modern times.