What did Kofi Annan do?

[Elrohir]

Elrohir-
I was talking about Civ. . .
a joke.
Is the CIVFANATICS community that out of touch with the game?

Hehehe, sorry. I usually lose interest by the time I reach the Modern Age.

You don't pay half of it anyway and the rest is handed over late! Make a threat that bothers anyone, why don't you


Being serious, of course you can force the resignation of a Secretary General - the problem you have is that having the US right wing after you is about as bad for his popularity in the 97% of the world outside the US as it would be for a US politician being denounced by Bin Laden.

The UN would either collapse or lose a large portion of it's power if we left.

Don't you care about what has happened under his leadership? Either he's incompetant or he's criminal, and either way he's not a man fit to be the Secretary General.

 

[shadowdude]

He's the head of a rabidly anti-US organization of corrupt wackos and third world finger pointers. The UN has become full of fat, beaucratic dorks under his watch. The UN is full of dictators. Corruption. Scandal. Red tape.Obstruction of Justice.The Oil-for-Food scandal.The UN has totally failed in its mission to make the world more peaceful. Instead it has fueled the fire. Kofi & Co. have made out like bandits taking whatever they can. Kofi's son Kojo has made out with quite a few lucrative contracts as well.

 

[GEChallenger]

I don't really know, but Annan has been hostile toward US interests and getting him out of office would be beneficial. Of course, it's unlikely his replacement would be much more sympathetic to the US, but whatever.

 

[Boleslav]

Was that a black helicopter that just passed overhead?

He's the head of a rabidly anti-US organization of corrupt wackos and third world finger pointers.

Corrupt wackos like the US, France, Germany, the EU and Russia are amongst those giving him support: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_11-12-2004_pg4_3

The US ambassador to the UN took part in a standing ovation for him yesterday.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=591167

The UN has become full of fat, beaucratic dorks under his watch.

According to the US government, the opposite is true. http://www.un.int/usa/fact3.htm

I couldn't find any sources about the fatness and dorkiness of the UN under Kofi Annan as compared to other Secretary Generals. I suspect you are right, but only because of the obesity epidemic in Western countries.

The UN is full of dictators.

… and yet some of the world’s most prominent democracies have the ultimate UN veto power. Global trends indicate a move towards democracy and away from dictatorship in the UN. At any rate, the government of a member state is something the UN obviously has no control over.

Corruption.

In this case, the corruption is American in origin.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=295926

Scandal.

Let's not forget this shameful scandal which we saw recently at the UN:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/14/60II/main577975.shtml

Red tape.

Actually, the UN does have a problem with red tape. Problems like this:
http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1443212,00.html

Obstruction of Justice.

This is gloriously untrue. Take a look at the statutes for the International Court of Justice. http://www.sovereignty.net/un-treaties/ICJ-STATUTE.txt
… and here’s more UN-led justice at the Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia
http://www.un.org/icty/

That UN sure does obstruct justice!

The Oil-for-Food scandal.

Again, this scandal reflects more poorly on the US’ role in the UN than anything else.

The UN has totally failed in its mission to make the world more peaceful. Instead it has fueled the fire.

Does anyone believe this statement? Is the world really more unpredictable and warprone than before the UN was created, at er… the end of World War II?

Kofi & Co. have made out like bandits taking whatever they can. Kofi's son Kojo has made out with quite a few lucrative contracts as well.

Your criticism of Kofi Annan is unwarranted and without any evidence can only be considered a negative opinion. However, I agree that there does seem to be some murkiness surrounding Kojo’s business dealings.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Kofi Annan did nothing really important. It's simply funny to see so many "righteous" Americans ready to jump at him when those who were manageing the oil for food program were... the Security Council, meaning the US.

Well, if you wonder why Kofi Annan is currently endangered so much, the solution is fastly found :
America's bitterness.


The only thing that I can tell you is that you won't calm down the international anger towards the United States if Washington continues to make pay its failures to few scapegoats such as the CIA director or the UN secretary.

 

[samildanach]

Kofi Annan did nothing really important. It's simply funny to see so many righteous Americans ready to jump at him when those who were manageing the oil for food program were... the Security Council, meaning the US.

Well, if you wonder why Kofi Annan is currently endangered so much, the solution is fastly found :
America's bitterness.


The only thing that I can tell you is that you won't calm down the international anger towards the United States if Washington continues to make pay its failures to few scapegoats such as the CIA director or the UN secretary.

We were having grown up chat here until you bashed your way in . Wasn't it the French who completely abused the sanctions and aren't they on the security council?

 

[Marla_Singer]

We were having grown up chat here until you bashed your way in . Wasn't it the French who completely abused the sanctions and aren't they on the security council?

Indeed. France, Russia, China, the UK and the US. That includes Paris it's true, but it also includes Washington and London.

By the way, what do you call "grown up" chat ? This ?

He's the head of a rabidly anti-US organization of corrupt wackos and third world finger pointers. The UN has become full of fat, beaucratic dorks under his watch. The UN is full of dictators. Corruption. Scandal. Red tape.Obstruction of Justice.The Oil-for-Food scandal.The UN has totally failed in its mission to make the world more peaceful. Instead it has fueled the fire. Kofi & Co. have made out like bandits taking whatever they can. Kofi's son Kojo has made out with quite a few lucrative contracts as well.

I don't really know, but Annan has been hostile toward US interests and getting him out of office would be beneficial. Of course, it's unlikely his replacement would be much more sympathetic to the US, but whatever.

That's what one can call bitterness.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

I think it’s safe to say that nearly every nation in the world has abused the UN aid offers, sanctions, etc in some way. The organization is so weak and pathetic it really should be reformed so it’s more effective and less corrupt. I don't really know if it would be possible since every nation has their agenda.

 

[GEChallenger]

That's what one can call bitterness.

No, that's what one can call hoping things happen so that one's country's best interests will be served.

It's called nationalism, folks. Why is this concept to hard for some people to grasp?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

The Economist ran an article on this recently. Kofi is innocent until proven guilty, and is not guilty by association, so there is no reason to call for his expulsion at the moment. He is, incidentally, attempting to reform the UN, to make it a more effective organization.

Stop attacking him. Kofi Rules!

 

[Marla_Singer]

No, that's what one can call hoping things happen so that one's country's best interests will be served.

It's called nationalism, folks. Why is this concept to hard for some people to grasp?

Ah... Nationalism... I guess I would have been warned if I had used it.

 

[samildanach]

By the way, what do you call "grown up" chat ? This ?
That's what one can call bitterness.

Most fair-minded people would be upset when confronted by the obstructionism and cronyism of someone like Kofi. I don't like Kofi and think he is a bad person but I can tolerate that if it keeps the U.K. out of situations where normally we would have a moral obligation to do something. Kofis machinations gives us, you and America a reasonable excuse for not stepping into situations that require the intervention of a first world power. Especially those where there is no strategic advantage or profit.

 

[Elrohir]

The Economist ran an article on this recently. Kofi is innocent until proven guilty, and is not guilty by association, so there is no reason to call for his expulsion at the moment. He is, incidentally, attempting to reform the UN, to make it a more effective organization.

Stop attacking him. Kofi Rules!

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in certain areas, it's quite possible that he really did not know about the Oil-For-Food scandel. (Unlikely though it may be) But if he really had no clue what was going on, then he isn't in touch with what's going on in his own organization and has no business running the UN.

So I at least AM giving him the benefit of the doubt. But even assuming he's told the entire truth, that still doesn't excuse him from missing this whole thing.

 

[shadowdude]

Corrupt wackos like the US, France, Germany, the EU and Russia are amongst those giving him support: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/defaul...1-12-2004_pg4_3

The US ambassador to the UN took part in a standing ovation for him yesterday.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world...sp?story=591167

Support does not mean we have a good a person in office- neither does a standing ovation.

… and yet some of the world’s most prominent democracies have the ultimate UN veto power. Global trends indicate a move towards democracy and away from dictatorship in the UN. At any rate, the government of a member state is something the UN obviously has no control over.

the UN may have no control over the government of a member state, but they can control what states are members. Why should we have tyrants who oppress their own people in a *respected* international organization? Why should they get aid? They shouldn't.

In this case, the corruption is American in origin.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=295926

Notice the person involved was pardoned by Clinton? .........

This is gloriously untrue. Take a look at the statutes for the International Court of Justice. http://www.sovereignty.net/un-treaties/ICJ-STATUTE.txt
… and here’s more UN-led justice at the Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia
http://www.un.org/icty/

That UN sure does obstruct justice!

I'm sure the UN's internal investiations of the oil-for-food scandal will yield stunning results! 21.3 billion in illegal revenue flowed into Iraq from the oil-for-food program over a period of several years. that alone is reason enough to call for change

Does anyone believe this statement? Is the world really more unpredictable and warprone than before the UN was created, at er… the end of World War II?

Peace isn't the absence of a world war. What has the UN done to foster understanding and peace? What has it done in the conflict between Israel and Palestine or genocide in rwanda or sudan, they have been slow to react or didn't untill it was too late.

Your criticism of Kofi Annan is unwarranted and without any evidence can only be considered a negative opinion. However, I agree that there does seem to be some murkiness surrounding Kojo’s business dealings.

If he wasn't aware even slightly that there were shady dealings going on, I would be astonished. In some of the statements, he sound like an Enron exec

That's what one can call bitterness.

Thats what I call critiscim and a call for drastic reform in the UN.

 

[Marla_Singer]

the UN may have no control over the government of a member state, but they can control what states are members. Why should we have tyrants who oppress their own people in a *respected* international organization? Why should they get aid? They shouldn't.

Who are those tyrants you're talking about ? Musharraf in Pakistan ? Mubarak in Egypte ? Prince Abdallah in Saudi Arabia ? King Abdallah in Jordan ? King Mohammad VI in Morocco ?

According to you who support those regimes ? Do you think it's really in the interests of the United States to alienate their voices ?

Peace isn't the absence of a world war. What has the UN done to foster understanding and peace? What has it done in the conflict between Israel and Palestine or genocide in rwanda or sudan, they have been slow to react or didn't untill it was too late.

In such conflicts, those who are in charge to react at the UN are members of the Security Council : the United States, France, the United Kingdom, Russia, China.

If nothing moves in the UN about those awful crisis, it's not because Kofi Annan doesn't want to move, it's simply because the gang of the 5 doesn't find a common agreement in order to make the UN intervene.

Thats what I call critiscim and a call for drastic reform in the UN.

I'm all for a reform of the UN. Actually, Kofi Annan wants also the UN to be reformed, and I guess even more than both of us together. Removing him isn't a first step towards reform, it's actually another stop in the direction of a UN manipulated by the loudest members of the gang of the 5.

And I'm nice to have written members in plural.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Mabey the UN could start to enforce it's own sanctions, but it ain't going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Mabey the UN could start to enforce it's own sanctions, but it ain't going to happen anytime soon.

The UN is already called antiamerican and anti-israelian. If the UN starts to enforce its sanctions towards Israel, I wonder what would happen.

Unfortunately, it seems that things aren't that easy in this world...

 

[emzie]

Mabey the UN could start to enforce it's own sanctions, but it ain't going to happen anytime soon.

Erm, it lacks the power. Which is the flaw. So in that sense, it can't start to enforce it's on sanctions. Not in the way you meant. Bombs away, eh?

"Well, the issue of a standing UN army has been raised by many because, quite frankly, the way we operate today is like telling Ottawa that I know you need a fire station but we will build one when the fire breaks. We have no army. When the crisis breaks then we begin to put an army together. We go around to governments and begin asking for troops. The question with a standing UN army is that it raises issues of budget issues, legal issues, where do you place it, under what jurisdiction? And the big boys, big countries don't want it. The smaller countries are also nervous."

I, for one, would join such an army. And I hope someday such an Army comes to being.

As to the current scandal, Kofi is innocent until proven guilty. I hope h stays through 2006. Even if the allegations prove true, he's doing nothing worse than what most powerful politicians do. He just got caught.

However, I have and will always blame him for what went on in Rwanda.

 

[AVN]

However, I have and will always blame him for what went on in Rwanda.

Isn't that a little bit unfair. AFAIK the Security Counsil is responsible for taking actions, for example by sending peace forces. Although I'm afraid they couldn't have stopped the genocide (I guess I may call it so) too.

IIRC most of the murdering was done in a very short period.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Isn't that a little bit unfair. AFAIK the Security Counsil is responsible for taking actions, for example by sending peace forces. Although I'm afraid they couldn't have stopped the genocide (I guess I may call it so) too.

IIRC most of the murdering was done in a very short period.

The responsibility of the UN isn't to have not sent blue helmets there. They did do so. A force of Belgian blue helmets supported by few French troops had been sent in Rwanda.

The bad thing is actually that they have left the country. And once it's been done, well, you know what happened next.