What do you think are the greatest Civiliations in history?

[cybrxkhan]

Simple Answer: THERE IS NO 'GREATEST' CIVILIZATION.

Each and every one was important to history, from the smallest nations in the Pacific to Russia, and everything else in between.

true... but we're here to see people's opinions.

What a load of subjective nationalist crap this thread is.

Someone define "greatness" for me and tell me how to quantify it. Then I'll vote.

thats up to you - you decide what you think are the "greatest" civs. thats the whole point of the thread. to discuss our opinions on why we think certain civs are awesome.

Nubia is well just a filler civ, all they did was occupy space.

though that is true, this is only to a limited extent. in truth, Nubia became the "Neo-Egypt" after Egypt fell to the Hellenes and the Romans, much in the way the Byzantines to the Romans.

anyhow, we are not talking about that Nubia. see, we're talking about the copper/early-bronze age Nubia, the Nubia before Egypt became a nation - that Nubia, according to recent discovery, could possibly be where some of the roots of Ancient Egypt lie.

 

[esnaz]

I'd have to say China and Rome. They both had such a great influence on the world. Just as a short example of China's importance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions
/\
wow

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

though that is true, this is only to a limited extent. in truth, Nubia became the "Neo-Egypt" after Egypt fell to the Hellenes and the Romans, much in the way the Byzantines to the Romans.

anyhow, we are not talking about that Nubia. see, we're talking about the copper/early-bronze age Nubia, the Nubia before Egypt became a nation - that Nubia, according to recent discovery, could possibly be where some of the roots of Ancient Egypt lie.

Meh..

Other than copy the Egyptian pyramids I don't see how the nubians did anything great, and unless you provide proof I can't believe they influenced egypt. My vote goes for the funj sultanate of sennar.

 

[cybrxkhan]

^well, Vietnam isn't that great because we prety much copied off China.

compared to Egypt, of course Nubia ain't nothing. but it has its merits. as i said above, it was a "Neo-Egypt" - keeping Egyptian culture alive in a time of whatever. a Nubian queen even scared the crap out of the Romans; the Nubians, likewise, also earlier scared off Alexander the Great.
But Nubia itself did rule over Egypt for a time, with a "Nubian" dynasty of pharaohs that vied with Assyrians, Phoenicians, and otheres in the Middle East for power.

now, on the influence thing - this is a newer theory. excavations in what was once northern Nubia shows artifacts bearing ancient egyptian symbols and themes - the boat thingy, the pharaoh, the grabbing the heads by the pharaoh, etc. dating from the very early years of Egypt. there seems to be enough at an enough consistent level to show that possibly that Nubia had a part in the development of early Egypt.

in my opinion, Egypt was a combination of influences - the more Levant and Middle Eastern influenced north, and the (possibly) more Nubian influenced south.

i can understand your contesting to these newer developments - the old view was that the Egyptians were a bunch of caucasoid guys that beat up middle easterners and africans. it has become more liberal lately, but it still keeps its old elements at times.


but otherwise, it still cant compare to Egypt. i actually chose Egypt as one of my choices actually. who the heck can compare to those huge-*** pyramids???


anyhow...

UPDATE:

4 top civs (in no particular order):

- China
- Rome
- Hellenes
- England/Britain

 

[Brighteye]

One must judge a civilization by the quality of its food. Hence my pick would be :
- Latin culture (France, Italy, Spain)
- China
- India

Surely if quality of food is what matters it should be
India
Bangladesh
France

I'd have to say China and Rome. They both had such a great influence on the world. Just as a short example of China's importance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions
/\
wow

But I wonder how many of those the Chinese used properly, or developed further.
Trebuchets were massively improved when the designs reached Europe. Gunpowder I know less about, but it only became influential when Europeans started using it for cannons and eventually small arms.
Did printing actually come from China, or was it invented separately again?

If we look at a list of inventions/discoveries from many countries we'll be impressed:
electricity, steam engines, television, telephone, radar, light bulb, computers, longbow, trains/railways...
all from Britain. Perhaps these have influenced modern life?

Not that I actually voted for England, because it never occurred to me to regard it as synonymous with the British Empire. The most important ones would be Greek, Roman, Chinese and Indian cultures. For influence on the rest of the world China and India lose out, because they never did much.

 

[cybrxkhan]

But I wonder how many of those the Chinese used properly, or developed further.
Trebuchets were massively improved when the designs reached Europe. Gunpowder I know less about, but it only became influential when Europeans started using it for cannons and eventually small arms.
Did printing actually come from China, or was it invented separately again?

If we look at a list of inventions/discoveries from many countries we'll be impressed:
electricity, steam engines, television, telephone, radar, light bulb, computers, longbow, trains/railways...
all from Britain. Perhaps these have influenced modern life?

Not that I actually voted for England, because it never occurred to me to regard it as synonymous with the British Empire. The most important ones would be Greek, Roman, Chinese and Indian cultures. For influence on the rest of the world China and India lose out, because they never did much.

those things were most likely not invented on their own, and were made by China.

gunpowder weapons and related weapon-types helped quicken the Mongol's invasions, for example.

the inventions made later by the Europeans would have never really been there had it been for the Chinese inventions, and if not, they came after. the Chinese invented a whole ton of modern things centuries before the Europeans, some of the things even a millenia earlier.
where would modern warfare be now, for example, without the invention of gunpowder?

though of course China isn't the world's overlord, i always have a feeling the importance of China, and India to a lesser extent, is always underestimated. the most influential they were in, i suppose, to the world now, is innovatively and economically.

 

[Portugal]

Portugal.

 

[Mirc]

Mirc.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

those things were most likely not invented on their own, and were made by China.

gunpowder weapons and related weapon-types helped quicken the Mongol's invasions, for example.

the inventions made later by the Europeans would have never really been there had it been for the Chinese inventions, and if not, they came after. the Chinese invented a whole ton of modern things centuries before the Europeans, some of the things even a millenia earlier.
where would modern warfare be now, for example, without the invention of gunpowder?

though of course China isn't the world's overlord, i always have a feeling the importance of China, and India to a lesser extent, is always underestimated. the most influential they were in, i suppose, to the world now, is innovatively and economically.

I agree of course I'm too tired to make a long response to that other guys claim that china and india have had no influence.

我很累。

 

[RickFGS]

1. Importance to History

Portugal, discovered the world, while others were just killing each other as usual.

2. Military Power/Influence

By age/periods from ancient to modern: Egypt, Assyria, Hitites, Babylon, Mycenea, Phonecia, Persia, Greece, Macedon, Carthage, Rome, China, Byzantines, Holy Roman Empire, Arabs/Moors, Mongols, Venice, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, England, Ottoman Empire, France, Germany, Soviet Union, United States.

3. Political Power/Influence

Same as above.

4. Cultural Power/Influence

Persian Empire - Chinese Empire - Roman Empire - Portuguese & Spain Empires - British Empire - French Empire - German Empire - Russian Empire and nowadays USA.

5. Scientific and Innovative Achievements

Egypt, Phoenicia, Greece, Rome, China, France, England, Germany, USA, Japan and Scandinavian countries.

6. Cultural Longetivity

Well, historians say Athens is the oldest city in the world that is still existing and in good shape, i have to say Greek culture.

7. Economical Power/Influence

Same as 2.

8. Architectural Achievements

Egypt, Greek, Rome, France, China, USA.

9. Capability to Destroy

USA and Soviet Union - nothing beats the nuclear arsenal´s of these two.

10. Humanity
Scandinavian countries and Canada since they put a lot on this matter nowadays In general its a hard subject.

 

[Bast]

Ugh! Rome is leading?

Rome copied Hellenic culture in every way.

I picked what in my view are the Big 3: British, Hellenic and Hebrew.

Hebrew through Abrahamic religions.
Hellenic being the foundation of all western culture.

And the British Empire being the most dominant and widespread singular culture ever.

 

[Mirc]

Ugh! Rome is leading?

Rome copied Hellenic culture in every way.

Completely false.

 

[Bast]

Completely false.

Oh but of course. They were 100% original.

 

[jacktheknife]

1. Importance to History

Portugal, discovered the world, while others were just killing each other as usual.

Yeah, Brazil doesn't count.

6. Cultural Longetivity

Well, historians say Athens is the oldest city in the world that is still existing and in good shape, i have to say Greek culture.

Yeah but it doesn't really export really well, I'll go with China on this one.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

1. Importance to History

Portugal, discovered the world, while others were just killing each other as usual.

4. Cultural Power/Influence

Persian Empire - Chinese Empire - Roman Empire - Portuguese & Spain Empires - British Empire - French Empire - German Empire - Russian Empire and nowadays USA.

5. Scientific and Innovative Achievements

Egypt, Phoenicia, Greece, Rome, China, France, England, Germany, USA, Japan and Scandinavian countries.

6. Cultural Longetivity

Well, historians say Athens is the oldest city in the world that is still existing and in good shape, i have to say Greek culture.

8. Architectural Achievements

Egypt, Greek, Rome, France, China, USA.

Ahh of course the locals of brazil can't be counted for already "founding" Brazil for living there. Please that is a ridiculous statement.

It amazes me how eurocentric many people are here.

There is somethiing missing......

 

[jacktheknife]

Ahh of course the locals of brazil can't be counted for already "founding" Brazil for living there. Please that is a ridiculous statement. .

I meant regarding violence on the part of Portugal.

 

[Plotinus]

Oh but of course. They were 100% original.

You know, being 100% original or copying the Greeks 100% aren't the only possibilities...

 

[aronnax]

1. Importance to History

Portugal, discovered the world, while others were just killing each other as usual.
Yeah, Portugal was the only European Nations that did not have ships

2. Military Power/Influence

By age/periods from ancient to modern: Egypt, Assyria, Hitites, Babylon, Mycenea, Phonecia, Persia, Greece, Macedon, Carthage, Rome, China, Byzantines, Holy Roman Empire, Arabs/Moors, Mongols, Venice, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, England, Ottoman Empire, France, Germany, Soviet Union, United States.

Since when was Netherlands a milltary power? They lost New Amsterdam because they were too busy catching beavers then building defences. Greece was a bunch of bickering cities. Useless seperated

3. Political Power/Influence

Same as above.

4. Cultural Power/Influence

Persian Empire - Chinese Empire - Roman Empire - Portuguese & Spain Empires - British Empire - French Empire - German Empire - Russian Empire and nowadays USA.

USA?

5. Scientific and Innovative Achievements

Egypt, Phoenicia, Greece, Rome, China, France, England, Germany, USA, Japan and Scandinavian countries.

6. Cultural Longetivity

Well, historians say Athens is the oldest city in the world that is still existing and in good shape, i have to say Greek culture.
Ancient Greek Culture is nothing like today's Greek Culture, its been altered, stretched, edited, raped and squashed into someother culture. If you said Chinese Culture it might been better. I can gurantee you that at Chinese Culture did not radically change in its past 1000 years of history like the Greeks
7. Economical Power/Influence

Same as 2.

8. Architectural Achievements

Egypt, Greek, Rome, France, China, USA.
The statue of Liberty and a Hollywood Sign are not Architectural Achievement

9. Capability to Destroy

USA and Soviet Union - nothing beats the nuclear arsenal´s of these two.

10. Humanity
Scandinavian countries and Canada since they put a lot on this matter nowadays In general its a hard subject.

10 characters

 

[Portugal]

@arronax

Portugal, the only nation that did not have ships?!!??! Then how did we discover half the world? Portugal had one of the largest navies at the time in fact, the so called "Spanish" armada was actually half spanish the other half of the armada was Portuguese.

And yes the USA is a cultural power because nowadays, all our movies, music, and media comes from the US.

I agree with you that the USA does not have arcitectual achievments, though.

 

[jacktheknife]

@arronax
I agree with you that the USA does not have architectural achievments, though.

Skyscrapers.

You know, being 100% original or copying the Greeks 100% aren't the only possibilities...

Yeah, besides the kind of totalitarian nature of such an idea, I think that part of the key to the American mass of culture is the rejection of that kind of "anxiety of influence." Take the example of architecture again. Yeah, much of American architecture (aesthetic-wise) came from the consort of a number of foreign influences (and architects even). But we forget that originality and identity come from a combination of influences anyway. What we get from the embrace of influence is symbology not only recognizable but relatable to the rest of the world. The alternative is a kind of cultural protectionism, discarding culture in order to that which one has seem somehow greater. Eclecticism is often lost in the narrow and vain desire for singular originality (or for the recognition as such). I would say that Hellenic culture is great, but greater things have grown out of it.