What does it take for me to get into Heaven?

I know a good handful of Christians and I don't know any Universalists. Also, the "Truth" isn't meant to be taken as a Democratic affair.
Yes, that's why I cited Theologians instead of sheer numbers.

Because it makes the most sense to me. It accounts for God's sovereignty, omnipotence and omniscience.
Theodicy is usually considered a seperate matter from Salvation. But since you're concerned with it, how do you square it with God's Omnibenevolence?


Of course it's less than a perfect good. It is, in fact, evil, unless we change the definition of Evil to be something so arcane that it's nearly meaningless.
Yes, but as I pointed out, this contradicts theodicy, which you can't do without ignoring many key passages in the bible.

Because softballing Christian doctrine ain't my job.
I'm not asking you to softball anything. I'm asking you to step up to the plate here. You seem to think Calvinism is the one true understanding of the bible, and I say it's the work of a Scottish nutjob, followed by an obscure Church, that represented no Christian thought for over a millenia, is totally incompatible with theology, the bible, or reason.

In fact, I'm asking you to defend your entire idea of hell, because I don't see any evidence for it in the bible.

There are 13 references to Hell in the bible.

Spoiler :
Matthew 5:22
Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

23 If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee,

So a vague reference to a "hell of fire" that we're in danger of. I've seen similar warnings on propane tanks.

Spoiler :
Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.

And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.

This ones problematic for the traditional view, because here we have two reference that the whole body goes to hell. No reference to a soul or intellect there, but to literally your body going to hell. Remember, if this hell is supposed to reference the afterlife, this basically means "if you sin, your body will be cremated".

Spoiler :
Matthew 10:28
And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

If this is a reference to God, it says he is able, but nothing about willing. Note here how now we're discussing the body and soul, so the last passages weren't unconscious omissions.

Spoiler :
And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.

Again, a reference to body parts ending up in a fire.

Spoiler :
Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he is become so, ye make him twofold more a son of hell than yourselves.

Okay, so you can be a Son of Hell, and that means something, but still nothing about going to hell when you die.

Spoiler :
Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?

Hell apparently judges you, still nothing about what that entails, who enforces it, and if it's enforced.

Spoiler :
Mark 9:43
And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire.

And if thy foot cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life halt, rather than having thy two feet to be cast into hell.

And if thine eye cause thee to stumble, cast it out: it is good for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell;

Again, body parts go to hell. Soul? Not so much.

Spoiler :
Luke 12:5
But I will warn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, who after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Again, able, but not willing. First reference to hell being something after death, though no references to this actually happening, happening for an eternity, or anything like that.


Spoiler :
James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire: the world of iniquity among our members is the tongue, which defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the wheel of nature, and is set on fire by hell.

So your tongue is alright alight with the fire of Hell. I gotta say, my tongue doesn't feel too bad. Gotta brush it, it's kind a gunky, but I wouldn't classify this as torture.

Spoiler :
2 Peter 2:3-5
American Standard Version (ASV)
3 And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not.

4 For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5 and spared not the ancient world, but preserved Noah with seven others, a preacher of righteousness, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly;

7 and delivered righteous Lot, sore distressed by the lascivious life of the wicked

8 (for that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their lawless deeds):

9 the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment;

So we know Angels are in Hell, or at least a hell because this doesn't seem to be the "Hell of Fire" because it's dark. Now, it doesn't say anything about torture, or anything like that for the angels, just that they're in hell, and it's dark. There's no references to humans going there after the die anymore then there's references to them being underwater after they die, or that you'll turn to ash.
Note also that the Angels do not seem to be there forever, as they're there to "Reserve unto judgement." If Hell is a punishment, then why are they held there until they're being judged, until their punished?

And that is it. That is literally every reference to Hell in the bible. So I want to see how you reconstruct the usual psuedo-pornographic view of hell out of these disjointed references to something, with absolutely no mention of an afterlife.
 
Well, Ziggy, I gave you my opinion without Scriptural citations. If circa 144,000 or so people who believe the same way are correct, a sincere belief in a loving God is all that is necessary to enter "heaven" after the death of your mortal form.
 
Indeed. But it didn't seem I needed to make any adjustments or considerations in my day to day life, or my morality, just in my attitude towards belief in God. Which I find odd, since that would mean my actions have no effect on being allowed into Heaven.
 
No, this isn't about Christianity at all. I'm interested in what I would have to change in my life to be considered worthy of Heaven. Since your interpretation has different levels of the quality of Heaven, it's not really a question you can answer.

Still, an interesting take, and thanks for sharing.

Please read the OP again and I hope you'll give it another shot.

Don't dread any Gotchas or me pointing inconsistencies I happen to think are in the answer. I am looking for specific unambiguous changes in my life which will change my fate as a believer in Heaven sees it.

edit: I am a little disappointed that 2 devout Christians are shrugging this off and just decide to throw some scripture my way.

Well I can't give you a better answer than scripture.

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

You can do whatever you want to do Ziggy, it matters not. What matters is the action of God.
 
Indeed. But it didn't seem I needed to make any adjustments or considerations in my day to day life, or my morality, just in my attitude towards belief in God. Which I find odd, since that would mean my actions have no effect on being allowed into Heaven.

We all make adjustments. Thats the nature of this world. It is the continual process of self-development.

By the way you dont have to die to be in heaven. Heaven is also plane of consciousness. It is best to achieve that while one is on Earth thats the true meaning of Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
 
No, this isn't about Christianity at all. I'm interested in what I would have to change in my life to be considered worthy of Heaven.

Oh. I thought it was about the Christian heaven.

So, what do you think "Heaven" is?

Why do (or do you?) you consider yourself unworthy?

Do you consider the existence of "Heaven" to be independent of the existence of "God"?
 
Well I can't give you a better answer than scripture.
In that case you have to wonder whether you understand the scripture.

You can do whatever you want to do Ziggy, it matters not. What matters is the action of God.
As specified in the OP, I am not looking to change my ways, I am satisfying my curiosity. And I have to rely on the willingness of others for it to be satisfied, so I do appreciate the effort, it just isn't helpful.
 
The only way to get to Heaven is through what Jesus did for us.

God originally created mankind good, and let Adam and Eve live in the Garden Of Eden.But when they disobeyed God, it marred all the qualities that mankind had, and made it natural for all of us to be bad.Since all people came from Adam and Eve, we are all like they are, naturally born sinners, on our way to Hell, with absolutely no way to save ourselves.Nothing we do can save us from Hell.Not living a good life, not doing good deeds.Not anything.

But, that's where God came on the scene.Jesus was and is a member of the Trinity of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Ghost.God the Father sent God The Son, which is Jesus, to the Earth, to save makind.He did so by Jesus being born through Mary.But Jesus, unlike us, was good, and was the only one who could atone for our sins by dying for us, which he did.He died on the Cross, taking the punishment that should have come to us, and, therefore, paid for the forgiveness of our sins.

So, every human being in existence is naturally born in sin and must accept what Jesus did for us at the Cross, by giving His life, to be saved and receive eternal life.We must repent, acknowledge that we are in sin, that we are not worthy of eternal life, and accept what Jesus has done for us, and ever keep your Faith in His sacrifice.That is the only way to be saved.And do not think, even after you are saved, that living a good life and doing good things will make you any better in the eyes of God.God likes those things, yes, but it is not what saves you.Only what Jesus did for us can save anyone.

So, all of you, if you have not already, must accept what He has done and live for God.Once again, that is the only way.But rest assured, if you do not accept Jesus and what He has done for you, then there is no way you will ever make it to Heaven.It's not because I said it, but because the Bible, which is God's Word, says it.

So, please, accept what He has done, and let Him save you from Hell.God doesn't desire for anyone to go to that place.He did not want us to go there so bad, that He gave His Only Son Jesus to die on that Cross so we wouldn't have to go there.

So, if you leave here, and don't accept Jesus, and what He has done for you, then it's not God's fault that you will end up in Hell.God made a way, it's up to us to accept it.

So say a prayer to God, and say that you acknowledge that you are a sinner, and ask forgiveness of your sins, and say that you accept Jesus into your life and accept what He has done to save you.But make sure you are sincere, and really mean the words you pray.

And if any of you accept Jesus, read the Bible, obey it, and go to a church that teaches what the Bible says.
 
Indeed. But it didn't seem I needed to make any adjustments or considerations in my day to day life, or my morality, just in my attitude towards belief in God. Which I find odd, since that would mean my actions have no effect on being allowed into Heaven.

Well, no. You do the right thing because it is the right thing to do and because it helps others, not because you're accumulating cosmic points with which to enter heaven.
 
In that case, explain the reason for differences in different denominations of for instance Christianity. Are they not an essential part of being saved and being able to enter Heaven?

Besides that, I was told that I also needed to believe JC died and was resurrected and became a part of the holy trinity. That was a very important I was told. More important than treating others the way you want them to treat you.

Also I asked for specifics and no ambiguity. "changes in my attitude, my morality and my day to day activities".

The reasons for the existence of different denominations of Christianity and the reason for different religions is simply that this is what people do under the influence of Satan. Satan is the enemy and the prince of confusion.

Neither religion nor denomination is an essential part of being saved and being able to enter Heaven. All human institutions are corrupted by the influence of the Enemy.

Jesus did not die and become a part of the Trinity. Jesus is God, Creator and Savior. The blood sacrifice of Jesus paid the price of remission of sins for the purpose of salvation of every one of us. This and this alone is pertinent to salvation, the way we treat others, before and after our being sealed with the Holy Ghost, has no bearing whatsoever on salvation unto eternal life.

So I am not ambiguous. Any changes that you make, of your own volition can NOT have any effect whatsoever on whether or not you make it "through the pearly gates".
 
Oh. I thought it was about the Christian heaven.

So, what do you think "Heaven" is?
It's a carrot to make people subscribe to a particular mindset.

Why do (or do you?) you consider yourself unworthy?
The idea of both Heaven or Hell scares the pants of me, since there is nothing which resembles myself that would be able to cope with the concept of eternity.

Do you consider the existence of "Heaven" to be independent of the existence of "God"?
Difficult to answer when I have no idea about the characteristics both concepts. The term God means some divine entity but beyond that your mileage may vary. Heaven means to me a place of eternal bliss. How that works or what that looks like is a mystery to me.

This is why I asked for specifics. I want stuff I recognise in the answer so I can relate to the answer.
 
It's a carrot to make people subscribe to a particular mindset.
What if that was backwards. What if a particular mindset is what it takes to get to heaven?

The idea of both Heaven or Hell scares the pants of me, since there is nothing which resembles myself that would be able to cope with the concept of eternity.
Well that really depends on your definition of yourself, doesn't it? Honestly, life scares me more for the same reason.
 
Well, no. You do the right thing because it is the right thing to do and because it helps others, not because you're accumulating cosmic points with which to enter heaven.
I understand that being motivated by wanting to go to Heaven is not the way. That's why I tried to make it clear I'm not asking to be converted nor do I have any wish to enter Heaven.

What you stated above is indeed a description of what I am after. Do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Would the evaluation of the right thing be up to me? In other words, are my intentions in this the deciding factor?
 
What if that was backwards. What if a particular mindset is what it takes to get to heaven?
I don't understand.
Well that really depends on your definition of yourself, doesn't it? Honestly, life scares me more for the same reason.
Well I define myself by my reasoning, my ideas, my emotions, that stuff. If there's a me which is comfortable with eternity, is that really me when it has changed that dramatically?
 
Sounds like you merely need immortality and a sense of happiness and well-being. Pssh, those are just biology/medical questions. Ignore my post about cracking dimension.
 
The idea of both Heaven or Hell scares the pants of me, since there is nothing which resembles myself that would be able to cope with the concept of eternity.

See my post above.

If you live for God and do what He says, you have nothing to fear.

And be certain, that God is real.There is no possible way that this whole Creation could just come into being from nothing.
 
Starting of as an atheist, what are the changes I have to make in my life to make it through the pearly gates?

Question is asked purely out of interest of the requirements, not because I am looking to be converted or fearful about my afterlife. I am very comfortable about my non-belief thank you very much. But lets pretend that I am willing to convert. I'll be looking for the changes in my attitude, my morality and my day to day activities.

I'll be also not taking anyone's word for granted nor am I looking for ambiguity. Please be specific and motivate your answer.

Cheers.

Ask the Christian members of your family. I would think they would be the best ambassadors of faith to talk to you about it.
 
See my post above.

If you live for God and do what He says, you have nothing to fear.

And be certain, that God is real.There is no possible way that this whole Creation could just come into being from nothing.
I read your post, and I'm afraid you may have misunderstood the reason for this thread. I am not looking to get into Heaven, I'm looking at specifics which I need to get me into Heaven.

For instance you say: 'If you live for God and do what He says, you have nothing to fear." But how do I find out what God wants? Since it won't talk to me I decided to ask those who have a connection to see what they think are the specifics of getting accepted into Heaven.
Ask the Christian members of your family. I would think they would be the best ambassadors of faith to talk to you about it.
But I'm interested in your take on it, since I expect it would be a different one than what my family thinks.
 
But I'm interested in your take on it, since I expect it would be a different one than what my family thinks.

It takes a lot of hard work, persistence, and a whole lot of patience.

Declare Jesus your lord and savior, emulate him and live by biblical principles.

Its not as easy as it sounds.
 
It's a carrot to make people subscribe to a particular mindset.

The idea of both Heaven or Hell scares the pants of me, since there is nothing which resembles myself that would be able to cope with the concept of eternity.

Difficult to answer when I have no idea about the characteristics both concepts. The term God means some divine entity but beyond that your mileage may vary. Heaven means to me a place of eternal bliss. How that works or what that looks like is a mystery to me.

This is why I asked for specifics. I want stuff I recognise in the answer so I can relate to the answer.

This is hard to untangle. You seem to be saying you have no idea what Heaven is, yet it scares the pants off you. Are you simply afraid of the unknown? I could relate to that. But since I sincerely believe I know nothing, I have had to get used to living with the unknown; and indeed I think I prefer it that way.

On the other hand you want stuff you can recognize in the answer. So I presume you mean things like "Be kind to everyone"? But I am guessing you've already got your morality sorted. So I'm not sure what you do want.

Personally, I don't know whether there is an afterlife or not (and I think the question is unrelated to the existence of God - though really this is just a guess). I don't think I want to know, so I'm saving it as a surprise.

I don't see believing in anything, by itself, will make any difference. For example, believing I can fly and then jumping off a cliff won't save me from crashing, will it?

Edit:
Since it won't talk to me I decided to ask those who have a connection to see what they think are the specifics of getting accepted into Heaven.
Quote:
Now, I'm really baffled. You said this was nothing to do with Christianity. Yet the only ones who seem to have a "connection" seem to be definitely Christian-oriented at the least.

It takes a lot of hard work, persistence, and a whole lot of patience.

Declare Jesus your lord and savior, emulate him and live by biblical principles.

Its not as easy as it sounds.
It sounds very very hard to sell everything, give it all away, and leave for the open road. So even harder than that?
 
Top Bottom