What does it take for me to get into Heaven?

[El_Machinae]

You don't need to be scared of eternity. It's only scary if you think of yourself as having an unlimited memory. What did you eat for supper on April 23? You have no idea, and so spaghetti tonight would actually be pretty tasty.

If you remembered every single spaghetti meal you've ever eaten, then maybe spaghetti tonight would be onerous. But you don't, so you can look forward to tonight's supper!

If my dog was immortal, I'd expect that he'd still be delighted to play fetch in 100 years, or 1000 years, or a million years from now. Whatever it is that causes someone to become bored with experience can reset over time.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It takes a lot of hard work, persistence, and a whole lot of patience.

Right, now we're tunneling. Lets start with the hard work. That sounds like something which can be specified.

Declare Jesus your lord and savior, emulate him and live by biblical principles.

Its not as easy as it sounds.

It didn't sound easy to start with.

From my perspective I know very few people who are really doing the hard work I envisage getting into Heaven would require.

This is hard to untangle. You seem to be saying you have no idea what Heaven is, yet it scares the pants off you. Are you simply afraid of the unknown? I could relate to that. But since I sincerely believe I know nothing, I have had to get used to living with the unknown; and indeed I think I prefer it that way.

The eternity part scares me.

edit: Until El Mac gave me a cop-out. I'm going to think about that one. It has a little of that gold fish in a bowl feel to it. Not sure how I feel about that.

On the other hand you want stuff you can recognize in the answer. So I presume you mean things like "Be kind to everyone"? But I am guessing you've already got your morality sorted. So I'm not sure what you do want.

Simple really. I indeed have a sense of my morality. Sorted sounds as if I'm sure about it, and I'm not. If the only change between Atheist Ziggy Barred from Heaven, and Pious Ziggy Welcomed into Heaven is a mindset, but no other changes in my behaviour or intentions are needed (according to the individual opinion of someone believing in Heaver), my question won't have an answer. If I do need to make changes in my day to day life, than it would.

Now, I'm really baffled. You said this was nothing to do with Christianity. Yet the only ones who seem to have a "connection" seem to be definitely Christian-oriented at the least.

I meant not limited to Christianity. But since I live in the culture I live in, the Christian variety is the one that would have the strongest images with regard to Heaven.?

You don't need to be scared of eternity. It's only scary if you think of yourself as having an unlimited memory. What did you eat for supper on April 23? You have no idea, and so spaghetti tonight would actually be pretty tasty.

If you remembered every single spaghetti meal you've ever eaten, then maybe spaghetti tonight would be onerous. But you don't, so you can look forward to tonight's supper!

If my dog was immortal, I'd expect that he'd still be delighted to play fetch in 100 years, or 1000 years, or a million years from now. Whatever it is that causes someone to become bored with experience can reset over time.

Never considered that. So in effect I'd always experience Heaven as having arrived there last Tuesday and there's still 16 billion things on my to-do list.

 

[ParkCungHee]

I don't understand.

Right the usual midset about Christianity is that heaven is a reward, given out by god, if you're good, like a Christmas gift.
God sets the prerequisites for salvation, and if you don't meet his rules, you don't get the reward.
This view also tends to be coupled with the rather bizarre idea (in my mind) that ideally, we'd like to sin like crazy and get the reward anyway. That it'd be completely awesome (though unethical) if we could hate, cheat, lie and steal and get the reward anyway.
To me, accepting a doctrine of universal love and forgiveness itself seems like a kind of amazing thing to experience. So what if it's less like when your parents tell you "Behave and you'll feel good later because I'll buy you a present" and more like "Go out and get some exercise, because exercise is a prerequisite to feeling good."

Paradise doesn't seem like it'd ever be enjoyable if you still have hate in your heart.

Well I define myself by my reasoning, my ideas, my emotions, that stuff. If there's a me which is comfortable with eternity, is that really me when it has changed that dramatically?

I got good news and bad news. That stuff won't make it around until you die anyway. Unless you go so, it's gonna be someone else's reasoning, ideas and emotions dying. That's why I generally picture that stuff not following you to heaven.

I mean, you should go back 5 years and see the Jerk posting on this account. His ideas were TERRIBLE.

 

[azzaman333]

$50 should be enough. I hear the dude at the gate is pretty easy to bribe.

 

[Heerlo]

I read your post, and I'm afraid you may have misunderstood the reason for this thread. I am not looking to get into Heaven, I'm looking at specifics which I need to get me into Heaven.

For instance you say: 'If you live for God and do what He says, you have nothing to fear." But how do I find out what God wants? Since it won't talk to me I decided to ask those who have a connection to see what they think are the specifics of getting accepted into Heaven.
But I'm interested in your take on it, since I expect it would be a different one than what my family thinks.

I understand that this is not the reason you made this thread, but what I'm saying is something that needs to be said.God is real.Heaven and Hell are real.And if you don't accept Jesus as your Savior and accept what He has done for you, then you will not make it into Heaven.

I understand that this is not what you were talking about, but I have no desire that anyone should spend forever suffering in Hell.So I'm telling you all a way to avoid it.

Read my post.Make Jesus your Savior.Accept what He has done in giving His Life for you.It will not be reading my post that saves you, but doing what God says for you to do.And accepting what Jesus has done for you is the only way to make it to Heaven and avoid suffering through eternal Hell.

So I ask anyone who may be reading this, please listen, and make Jesus your Savior.There will come a day when it will be too late.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Right the usual midset about Christianity is that heaven is a reward, given out by god, if you're good, like a Christmas gift.
God sets the prerequisites for salvation, and if you don't meet his rules, you don't get the reward.
This view also tends to be coupled with the rather bizarre idea (in my mind) that ideally, we'd like to sin like crazy and get the reward anyway. That it'd be completely awesome (though unethical) if we could hate, cheat, lie and steal and get the reward anyway.
To me, accepting a doctrine of universal love and forgiveness itself seems like a kind of amazing thing to experience. So what if it's less like when your parents tell you "Behave and you'll feel good later because I'll buy you a present" and more like "Go out and get some exercise, because exercise is a prerequisite to feeling good."

Paradise doesn't seem like it'd ever be enjoyable if you still have hate in your heart.

Ah, I see what you're getting at. And added to that, unless paradise is a lonely place, it won't be much of a paradise if it's full of bastards.

*Ziggy gratefully adds new possibilities to his perceptions*

I got good news and bad news. That stuff won't make it around until you die anyway. Unless you go so, it's gonna be someone else's reasoning, ideas and emotions dying. That's why I generally picture that stuff not following you to heaven.

I mean, you should go back 5 years and see the Jerk posting on this account. His ideas were TERRIBLE.

Hmmm. What am I without my ideas, reasoning and emotions? In other words, what'll be left of me?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I understand that this is not the reason you made this thread, but what I'm saying is something that needs to be said.God is real.Heaven and Hell are real.And if you don't accept Jesus as your Savior and accept what He has done for you, then you will not make it into Heaven.

I understand that this is not what you were talking about, but I have no desire that anyone should spend forever suffering in Hell.So I'm telling you all a way to avoid it.

Read my post.Make Jesus your Savior.Accept what He has done in giving His Life for you.It will not be reading my post that saves you, but doing what God says for you to do.And accepting what Jesus has done for you is the only way to make it to Heaven and avoid suffering through eternal Hell.

So I ask anyone who may be reading this, please listen, and make Jesus your Savior.There will come a day when it will be too late.

I'm not trying to be unnecessarily rude, and I appreciate your intentions, but if all you are aiming to do is proselytise and you understand it's not the reason for this thread, please don't use my thread for that.

 

[Heerlo]

You cannot keep sinning, and never stop, and still make it to Heaven.And eternal life is not something that we earn through good deeds.It's a gift that God gave to us through Grace.Not something we deserve.

 

[Heerlo]

I'm not trying to be unnecessarily rude, and I appreciate your intentions, but if all you are aiming to do is proselytise and you understand it's not the reason for this thread, please don't use my thread for that.

I'm not looking to earn followers to myself, just to point all who may see this to a way that they can avoid Hell and receive the eternal life that God wants all to have.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Hmmm. What am I without my ideas, reasoning and emotions? In other words, what'll be left of me?

Well, that is a worrying proposition. I came to my psuedo-platonic christian view when I was contemplating my mortal life. I mean, how do I know in 20 years I'll cherish the same ideas? My reasoning might go to rubbish, and my emotions well...those swing around day to day these days.

It's a long explanation, so I'll give it to you in PM, but the short answer is: You'll be like Batman.

 

[Arakhor]

Knock off the proselytising, please, KP. There is no single way to 'heaven' and the only hell is unfulfilled hopes and dreams.

What you stated above is indeed a description of what I am after. Do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Would the evaluation of the right thing be up to me? In other words, are my intentions in this the deciding factor?

If you believe that God is universally loving and forgiving and that his children (us) should reflect that in their daily lives, then it's usually fairly easy to work out what the right thing to do would be in each situation. The hard thing is to actually do it, rather than getting distracted by the cares of everyday life.

 

[Heerlo]

Knock off the proselytising, please, KP. There is no single way to 'heaven' and the only hell is unfulfilled hopes and dreams.



If you believe that God is universally loving and forgiving and that his children (us) should reflect that in their daily lives, then it's usually fairly easy to work out what the right thing to do would be in each situation. The hard thing is to actually do it, rather than getting distracted by the cares of everyday life.

Like I said, I'm not trying to get people to follow me, but trying to get people to obey and follow God.What Jesus did by dying on the Cross is the only way to get to Heaven, because He paid the sin debt the we all owe, by His death there.

If anyone here believes the Bible, then you should know that it clearly bears it out that good deeds and living a good life will not earn you a place in Heaven.Doing those things is good, but just is not going to get us there.

There is only one way, and that is by what Jesus did for us.

 

[El_Machinae]

Never considered that. So in effect I'd always experience Heaven as having arrived there last Tuesday and there's still 16 billion things on my to-do list.

Yes. Now, in real life, there's a biological correlate to this, oxytocin. This molecule is one of the reasons why people are so giddy in the puppy-love stage of a relationship: our memory is impaired, and the molecule causes us to retain selective attention. And thus, we're giddy.

We get over being giddy, and so you're assuming that this 'getting over' is necessary if you're going to be immortal. But, it's not necessary, it's just what happens to human brains. The hormones in our brains change, and so our attitudes towards certain situations change.

If we're talking supernatural minds, there's no real reason why you'd have to descend into boredom after experiencing something pleasant for too long. Humans do, yes, but our mind is not the only theoretical way to build a mind.

 

[timtofly]

Starting of as an atheist, what are the changes I have to make in my life to make it through the pearly gates?

Question is asked purely out of interest of the requirements, not because I am looking to be converted or fearful about my afterlife. I am very comfortable about my non-belief thank you very much. But lets pretend that I am willing to convert. I'll be looking for the changes in my attitude, my morality and my day to day activities.

I'll be also not taking anyone's word for granted nor am I looking for ambiguity. Please be specific and motivate your answer.

Cheers.

What does it take for me to get into Heaven?

Not that there are no interesting answers to your query, but only you and God know the answer to this question.

Seems no one likes a personal God, they want it to be someone elses problem. They want to pass the mindset to someone else to solve. Humans rationalize all the time, their existence and their need for a God, or their ability to be without God.

Human reasoning is hollow and the Bible is judgmental, but God is God. IMO, the Bible is a historical account of what happens when humans do not adhere to a personal God. And there are some instances where humans do recognize God on a personal level. Convincing one's self that there is no God, is about as impersonal as one can get to any idea that God is a reality. That is not a bad thing either, since God has allowed human's the ability to do so. God condescending to man, is the only way man does have the ability to understand God. While it is slightly differrent than humans being condescending, what causes people to feel inferior to begin with? There has to be resentment buried in the psyche to produce such reactions.

 

[Borachio]

Like I said, I'm not trying to get people to follow me, but trying to get people to obey and follow God.What Jesus did by dying on the Cross is the only way to get to Heaven, because He paid the sin debt the we all owe, by His death there.

If anyone here believes the Bible, then you should know that it clearly bears it out that good deeds and living a good life will not earn you a place in Heaven.Doing those things is good, but just is not going to get us there.

There is only one way, and that is by what Jesus did for us.

And see, here's a problem for me right here. How does this one work? To me, if you will forgive me, this is just plain crazy. How does getting crucified pay anything for anyone? It's just an execution. Makes no sense at all.

Wait. Unless you believe in retribution right?

 

[timtofly]

And see, here's a problem for me right here. How does this one work? To me, if you will forgive me, this is just plain crazy. How does getting crucified pay anything for anyone? It's just an execution. Makes no sense at all.

Wait. Unless you believe in retribution right?

Seems you would have to understand the Jewish Law given by God?

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Satan is the enemy and the prince of confusion.

Very well then you will have to admit that many things which come to us from religion are satanic...
How do you get rid off this satanic influence? Its a slow and steady process and to say that one just needs to turn to Jesus once and all will be fine is pretty ridiculous.
There is something like spiritual process/progress which is going on inside good or bad people within all regardless what is their believe. Consciously or not we are all drown back to our source...

 

[GhostWriter16]

Starting of as an atheist, what are the changes I have to make in my life to make it through the pearly gates?

Question is asked purely out of interest of the requirements, not because I am looking to be converted or fearful about my afterlife. I am very comfortable about my non-belief thank you very much. But lets pretend that I am willing to convert. I'll be looking for the changes in my attitude, my morality and my day to day activities.

I'll be also not taking anyone's word for granted nor am I looking for ambiguity. Please be specific and motivate your answer.

Cheers.

Acts 16:31 Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Pretty simple.

It would be simple if not for Acts 2:38

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Now, THAT would be simple enough if it weren't for the fact that Cornelius received the spirit BEFORE he was baptized. So baptism obviously isn't an absolute requirement, even though it is something all Christians have to, and will, do. Nevertheless, repentance IS required, as is discipleship, as per Acts 11:26.

However, to GET saved Classical_Hero is right. And its not talking about belief that he existed, either. Its talking about belief in his divinity and what he did for you, dying on the cross, in order to wash your sins away.

Simply acknowledging that God is your heavenly Father and wishing to join into eternal union with God after death is sufficient to enter "heaven".

Not if you believe Jesus:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 7:14&version=NIV


Is Jesus a liar now? Since you claim to be "Christian" be careful how you answer that question.

Nothing you can do would let you go to heaven.

Should we assume you already interpret the Bible in a Calvinistic way? It is not necessary to interpret Romans 9 that way, and in fact in the context of the book, I believe it is talking about the special status of Israel in the Old Testament. Of course, some people disagree with that, in fact I know of at least two Evangelicals on here who would disagree with that, but it is disputed.

Even if we interpret it the way you do though, you are still "Wrong" in the sense of how Christians are supposed to preach the gospel. Christ himself says "All that the Father gives to me will come to me, and he who comes to me I will never cast out." If the Calvinistic interpretation is accurate, which I'm not sure that it is, its a predestination debate that doesn't practically matter. All who believe will be saved, regardless of whether or not who will believe and who will not believe was ordained.

Before the beginning of time God decided that about 4% of the people he was about to create were going to heaven. He created everyone else specifically to torture them forever, sort of a cosmic prank.

That, in fact, is supralapsarianism. Not even all Calvinists accept that.

There's nothing you can do to save yourself if you aren't in the book of life. You're basically being given just a taste of the good life so that the torture really sticks once you are in the lake of fire.

It's also a great way to amuse the elect.

I think you are slandering God.

The good news is that you'll have plenty of company in hell. At least 60% of the people who call themselves Christians will be there.

How do you know how many? (I suspect the number is much higher, however.)

Mark Twain
Albert Einstein
Anne Frank
Every Pope who ever lived
Mitt Romney
Matt Stone and Trey Parker
Douglas Adams
Orson Scott Card
Thomas Paine
Thomas Jefferson
Fred Phelps (Just kidding, he'll be in heaven )

We actually don't know any of these people will be in Hell. Fred Phelps, notably, is still alive and so can repent. I don't see any good reason to suppose that he is actually on the road to eternal life right now. I mean, God knows, but he doesn't live like it. At all.

Mitt Romney, also, is still alive, as is Pope Benedict, and so all of them theoretically still have a chance to repent.

As for the rest of them, you still don't know as they may have repented in their last moments.

Thomas Jefferson truly is a sad one though. He was a deist who was completely wrong religiously. But he was so politically on

And of course, I suspect at the very least some of the earlier popes (Before Rome went crazy) were saved. And even now, Catholics do believe, so it is certainly possible that some of their popes, or their current pope, might be saved. I wouldn't say that that's probable with the Evangelical gospel, but not impossible. God knows where they stand.

Where did you read that we are talking about the christian heaven? Actually, Ziggy should have specified that in his first post.

Umm... if we're talking about the sky (First heaven) buy a plane ticket. If you're talking about space (Second heaven) then become an astronaut.

If you are talking about some other religion's heaventhat doesn't exist, sorry, I'm going to talk about the REAL heaven

 

[Borachio]

If you are talking about some other religion's heaventhat doesn't exist, sorry, I'm going to talk about the REAL heaven

But...but how do you know? I wouldn't presume to say you don't, of course, but by what stroke of fortune has it come about that out of all the religions in the world, and out of all the denominations of Christianity that there are, it just so happens that you have found the right one? Makes winning the lottery seem like a certainty.

And it makes no sense to quote the bible since there is, I'm willing to guess, no evidence that the bible is correct - nor any evidence that your particular interpretation is, fortuitously, correct.

This leaves you with personal experience. You've heard from God directly, then?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

GW, please honour the OP and take it elsewhere.

@others, if this turns into another one of GW's bible bollocks thread I'll rather see it closed than wade through people engaging his proselitysing.

GW, I am interested in your take on my question. And I would apreciate if you put a fraction of the effort you're putting into turning it into another one of your derailments into a discussion about the actual topic.

Here's to hoping you'll play ball