What If: World War Two

Grishnash

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What If: World War Two.

Hello my friends. If you have come here, it is because, like so many others you have asked: What If?
And in this particular case, what if the greatest, most deadliest and history-changing conflict ever to hit mankind had gone differently.
How would the world be? Would there have been a Cold War, and all the proxy wars that went with it? Would America dominate the world today? Would the Civil-Rights movement in America have won? From the change in everyday life to world politics, an alternate course in World War Two would have had profound impacts on the world of today.
Unfortunately, (or fortunately) we can never really see or experience that alternate reality. But, here we can ponder and entertain such scenarios, let our imagination wander down the path of fiction. Seriously contemplate the future (well, present) of the world if things had gone different, forget the fact that it can’t happen and genuinely think of the consequences.
For here I present to you an alternate course of the Year 1941AD.
In reality, this was the beginning of the end for the Nazi Regime that threatened to rule Europe. In here, it’s just the beginning…

Presented is an outline of the timeline of 1941 and the events that took place in that year, read carefully as every little detail counts.
Afterward you will find the wikipedia timeline of 1941 and events crossed off due to the ‘alternate’ events that took place in this 1941 timeframe.
Now, you will notice that only 1941 is accounted for in this ‘alternate’ timeline. That is because the events in this year would drastically alter the course of the following years and thus left up to consideration.

Ponder the world, and all that is in it.

22nd June 1941:
Führer of Germany Adolf Hitler meets with Premier of the Soviet Union Joseph Stalin in Minsk to, among other things, officially deny the Soviet’s proposal to join the Axis, much to the distain of Stalin.
During the meeting between the two heads of state, the Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact is extended and reassured by both sides.
: German High Command commences “Operation Sandstorm”, a three-pronged operation aimed at Tobruk, Cairo and Baghdad. The operation consisted of massive amounts of units charging the frontlines in the Middle East. Rumor had it that these units were going to be used to invade Russia if the talks between the heads of state failed.

8th July 1941:
Massive Luftwaffe raids coming from France, Germany and Norway, followed by daring coastal bombardment, devastate the British Isles.
: British government starts consideration of peace negotiations with Germany.
: The German armies isolate Tobruk from reinforcements and start a series of Luftwaffe raids against the stronghold.

21st July 1941:
Heavy Luftwaffe raids on Matla and Crete.
: Rommel, emboldened by substantial reinforcements, launches renewed offensives in North Africa causing heavy British tank losses.

23rd July 1941:
Additional German paratroopers land on Matla and Crete.
: Rommel's attack continues around Tobruk but does not make any serious attempts at taking the stronghold; British losses continue to rise.

24th July 1941:
German amphibious invasions on Matla and Crete secure the beachheads.
: Luftwaffe night raids bomb Cairo and Alexandria.

25th July 1941:
Axis forces moving towards Iraq meet heavy Allie assaults and are forced to delay arrival.
: Matla and Crete are nearly secured by Axis forces with the Allies unable to fend off the surge in Axis troops brought on by Operation Sandstorm.

28th July 1941:
The Winter War starts up again between the Soviets and the Finnish.
: Heavy Luftwaffe bombing across Egypt and the Middle East.

6th August 1941:
Matla and Crete are secured by Axis forces and are used to launch Luftwaffe raids against Allie positions in Egypt.

11th August 1941:
Heavy Luftwaffe raids on Tobruk.

25th August 1941:
: Rommel begins a surprising 15-mile foray into Egypt; he meets no opposition.
: Iraq is secured by Axis forces and used to launch raids against Allies bases in the Middle East.

27th August 1941:
: After his brief dash into Egypt, Rommel retreats to Bardia for refueling; it is during this brief withdrawal that Rommel, backed by German reinforcements brought on by Operation Sandstorm, captures Tobruk from the Allies.

31st August 1941:
: Rommel returns to Egypt with massive support from Axis forces and the Luftwaffe.
: Axis forces invade Iran and Allie positions throughout the Middle East, cutting off Allies supplies from the region
: Leading the advance into Finland is General Georgi Zhukov, already a Hero of the Soviet Union for his command in the conflict against the Japanese in the Russian Far East.

1st September 1941:
Allie positions in Egypt are heavily bombarded and hit with air strikes.
: Axis surround and bombard Allie positions throughout the Middle East.

5th September 1941:
The siege on Alexandria officially starts as Rommel takes his forces further into Egypt
: Soviet Air Forces bomb Finnish positions in northern Finland.

7th September 1941:
Luftwaffe raids across the British Isles leave London in ruins, Buckingham Palace is among the ruins, Axis casualties considerably high.
: Conscription in the United Kingdom now includes all able-body men. Women will not be neglected since they will serve in fire brigades and in women's auxiliary groups.
: Finnish forces thwart Soviet advances towards Helsinki, prompting Stalin to send thousands more troops to the Finnish frontiers.

8th September 1941:
Allie forces launch Operation Crusader, an operation tasked with countering the advance of Axis forces in Egypt and the Middle East

13th September 1941:
Heavy desert fighting in Egypt as Rommel thwarts "Operation Crusader" near Alexandria.

16th September 1941:
Axis forces capture Alexandria from the Allies and move on towards Cairo.
: Allie positions in the Middle East are torn as Axis forces secure the region. Hundreds of Allie troops surrender in Jerusalem
: Soviet forces pour into Finland, devastating the nation. Kouvola, Kotka, and Mikkeli fall to Soviet forces, putting Helsinki under threat.
: Luftwaffe raids bombard Cairo.

19th September 1941:
Rommel takes his forces into the heart of Egypt where he commences the siege on Cairo.

25th September 1941:
After intense fighting, Rommel fails to capture Cairo from the Allie forces. Axis deaths are considerably high.
: US Naval Command considers ordering an all-out war on Axis shipping in American Waters.
: Soviet Air Forces launches massive night raids against Helsinki and the surrounding area.

2nd October 1941:
Nazi Germany launches an amphibious invasion of the British Isles, massive platoons of Axis soldiers engage with the Royal Army along the coast of Britain. Spain is suspected of assisting the Germans with Naval logistical support.
: The siege of Helsinki is officially started as General Georgi surrounds the city.
: Axis forces in Egypt suffer a deadly day as Allie fighters send crushing blows against Rommel’s forces.

3rd October 1941:
Nazi Germany suffers massive losses in the invasion of Britain, and is driven off by the British by the dawn of the next day.
United Kingdom forces also suffer great losses and heavy damage is taken throughout the Isles, the British elite now heavily favors peace with the Germans.
: With Axis forces in Egypt, Italy seeks to reinforce their forces in Ethiopia with German assistance. However, Hitler shows little interest in spending resources on a war in Ethiopia and the Emperor of Ethiopia Haile Selassie calls on the Soviets to deter the Italians.
: Axis forces drive out Allie positions in the Middle East, destroying the Allies in the region and securing it for the Axis.

4th October 1941:
Hitler himself flies to Cairo to personally meet with Rommel and his men.

13th October 1941:
Hitler considers another invasion of Britain but is advised against such an undertaking by his top Generals.
: Benito Mussolini orders Italian forces from the Middle East and Africa to relieve the Italian troops in Ethiopia. Such a move is frowned upon by the Soviets and Hitler refuses to join the Italians in their war, though there is speculation that the Nazis would soon enter.

18th October 1941:
Stalin is reassured of the non-aggression between the Soviet Union and Japan.
: General Georgi marches into Helsinki after much intense fighting, the capital surrenders to the Soviets.

20th October 1941:
Lt. Col. Fritz Hotz, the German commander in Nantes, is killed by Resistance; 50 hostages are shot in reprisal and Hitler orders home hundreds of troops from the Middle East to help crush the resistance throughout Nazi occupied regions.

31st October 1941:
The destroyer USS Reuben James is torpedoed by Erich Topp's U-552 near Iceland, killing more than 100 United States Navy sailors. It makes headlines because it is the first loss of an American "neutral warship.
The US Naval Command orders an all-out war on Axis shipping in American waters.

1st November 1941:
Speculations spread that the Spanish Regime may soon join the Axis Powers.
: Fear rises up among the British that Spain may join the Axis, which would put England under real threat of invasion. The King of England holds a joint conference with the British parliament to discuss peace with Hitler, Prime Minister Churchill refuses this prospect and says that England will fight to the death. George VI, suspecting that if Spain joined the Axis, England eventually would fall, goes behind Prime Minister Churchill’s back and meets with Adolf Hitler in Stockholm to discuss a peace deal between the United Kingdoms and Nazi Germany; Special Forces guard both leaders to the teeth.
: Finland surrenders to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

7th November 1941:
The King of England again meets with Adolf Hitler in Stockholm and agrees to a peace deal between the nations.
King George VI returns to England to announce the treaty signed in Stockholm; Prime Minister Churchill, along with many British elite (despite favoring peace) reject the treaty and orders heavy RAF night bombings of Berlin, the Ruhr, and Cologne. Heavy losses were taken in the night raids.
: The British Parliament backs King George VI and the Stockholm treaty.

12th November 1941:
Prime Minister Churchill is thrown out of office and exiled to Canada; the United Kingdom recognizes the Stockholm Treaty and officially ends the war with Nazi Germany. The treaty heavily favors the Nazis, having the United Kingdoms give up almost all their colonial possessions to Hitler. With Hitler no longer at war with the United Kingdoms, he changes his focus to stabilizing the new German Reich.
: After heavy losses the Italian army is unable to secure Ethiopia and is still at war with the United Kingdoms and her allies whom deliver heavy blows against Italian forces in Africa now that Hitler is out of the picture.

18th November 1941:
With the United Kingdom no longer at war with the Nazis, they turn their attention to Italy, whom still poses a threat to their national interest. British forces and their allies in Africa launch counterstrikes against the invading Italians in Ethiopia.
: Benito Mussolini demands that Hitler give him assistance in his war in Africa, nevertheless Hitler refuses, and pressure from the Soviet Union is weighting on the Italians to end the war.

26th November 1941:
Japanese attack fleet of 36 warships and auxiliary craft, including six aircraft carriers, sailed from northern Japan for the Hawaiian Islands; The Hull note ultimatum is delivered to Japan by the United States.

27th November 1941:
Italy suffers massive lose of life in Africa against joint Ethiopian-Allie forces. Ethiopian and African nationalism sweeps across the continent strengthening resistance against the Italians.
: Soviets begin openly giving logistical support to the Ethiopian resistance.
: Adolf Hitler signs treaties with the rest of the Allie, ending war on all fronts involving the German Reich.

5th December 1941:
Under pressure by the Soviets, Italy signs a peace deal with the United Kingdoms and Ethiopia. The treaty has Italian forces pull out of Ethiopia and Italy give up their claims in East Africa. England concedes British Sudan to the Italian Empire and Italian East Africa is handed over to Ethiopia in the exchange. The war in Europe comes to a close as heads of state from Italy and Britain sign the Minsk Peace Accord brokered by Stalin and Hitler. The treaty is met by outrage in parts of England that did not see the purpose of giving up Sudan to Italy, whom they believed they could take in war. The British government is accused of being arm-twisted by the Germans and Soviets.
: Finland officially starts transition to a Soviet Socialist Republic part of the greater USSR.
: In an unexpected trip, Emperor Tojo meets with Premier Stalin to reinstate their non-aggression agreement.

7th (December 8, Asian time zones) December 1941:
Japan invades Thailand and British Malaya, before launching aerial attacks and amphibious invasions on US forces at Pearl Harbor, Guam and Wake Island; Japan declares war on the United States and the United Kingdom. Air attacks also on Hong Kong, Singapore, the Philippines, and Shanghai. Canada declares war on Japan The US Office of Strategic Services (OSS) forms an alliance with Ho Chi Minh and his Viet Minh guerrillas.
: German "Night and Fog decree" dictating the elimination of anti-Nazis throughout Nazi occupied Europe.
: Italy signs peace accords with the rest of Allie States.

11th December 1941:
Germany and Italy stay silent about Japans decision to go to war.
: US forces fail to repel Japanese landings at Wake Island and Hawaii and the Islands are lost to Imperial Japanese forces.
: Japanese invade Burma.
: German diplomats discreetly meet with Japanese ambassadors to discuss the new war in the Pacific.

16th December 1941:
The United Kingdoms finalizes the transfer of their African and Middle Eastern colonial possessions to the German Reich and their colony of Sudan to the Italian Empire.
: Japanese forces plan an attack on Midway Island.

17th December 1941:
British officials are split on the war with Japan, if they should seek peace or destroy the Imperial Japanese.

19th December 1941:
Hitler secretly meets with Japanese Emperor Hideki Tojo to discuss discreetly helping the Japanese in their war against America.
: Japanese Zero Fighter Bombers strike Midway Island in a carrier-based night raid.

23rd December 1941:
American President Franklin D. Roosevelt meets with former Prime Minister Churchill to discuss the possibility of a war of liberation across Nazi Occupied Europe.
: German High Command contemplates the idea of an attack on the American homeland.
 
Spoiler 1941 What didn't happen :


Italic/Bold means that the event(s) did not take place due to the events of the 'alternate' 1941AD

June 1941
22: Germany invades the Soviet Union with Operation Barbarossa, a three-pronged operation aimed at Leningrad, Moscow, and the southern oil fields of the Caucasus. Romania invades southern Russia on the side of Germany.
: With full Finnish consent, German troops begin deploying in formally neutral Finnish territory, to attack the Soviet Union from there.

: British general in Libya/Egypt Wavell is replaced by General Auchinleck.
: June Uprising against the Soviet Union in Lithuania.
26: Hungary and Slovakia declare war on the Soviet Union.
: The Soviet Union bombs Helsinki. Finland pronounces a state of war between Finland and Soviet Union. Continuation war is started.
28: Italian-occupied Albania declares war on the Soviet Union.
: Huge German encirclement of 300,000 Red Army troops near Minsk and Bialystok
.

July 1941
1: General Auchinleck takes over from General Wavell in North Africa.
: All American men over 21 are required to register for the draft.
: German troops occupy Latvia's capital, Riga, on the way to Leningrad.
3: Stalin announces a "scorched earth policy"
.
: The United States of America elevates its General Headquarters, United States Army in order to command and plan for military operations within the Zone Of The Interior.
: Italian General Pietro Gazzera surrenders the remnants of his forces in the Jimma area.
4: Mass murder of Polish scientists and writers, committed by German troops in captured Polish city of Lwów.
5: British government rules out possibility of negotiated peace.
: British torpedo planes sink an Italian destroyer at Tobruk; on the 20th, two more are sunk.
: German troops reach the Dnieper River.
7: Iceland is occupied by the United States; its future enhanced purpose is to protect shipping lanes.
8: Yugoslavia, a country formed by the Versailles treaty, is dissolved by the Axis into its component parts; especially important will be Croatia, with a pro-Axis government.
8: The German armies isolate Leningrad from the rest of Soviet Union.
: Britain and the USSR sign a mutual defence agreement, promising not to sign any form of separate peace agreement with Germany.
9: Vitebsk is captured; this opens the battle of Smolensk, an important communications centre, considered by the German high command to be "the gateway to Moscow."
10: Guderian's Panzers take Minsk; the Germans advance farther into the Ukraine.
:Units of the Italian Expeditionary Corps in Russia begin to arrive. A legion from the Independent State of Croatia is part of the Italian corps.

12: The Vichy French surrender in Syria.
: Assistant pact signed between the United Kingdom and the USSR.
13: Montenegro starts an uprising against the Axis Powers shortly after the Royalists in Serbia begin theirs. Questionable Communist plans instigate parallel uprising and civil war.
15: The Red Army starts a counter-attack near Leningrad.
: Argentia naval air base is set up in Newfoundland; it will prove an important transfer station for the Allies for some years.
16: German Panzers under Guderian reach Smolensk, increasing the risk to Moscow.
17: The air attacks on Malta continue.
19: The "V-sign", displayed most notably by Churchill, is unofficially adopted as the Allied signal, along with the motif of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.
21: The Luftwaffe strikes heavily at Moscow.
25: Neutral Iran occupied by Britain and the Soviet Union.
26: In response to the Japanese occupation of French Indochina, US President Franklin D. Roosevelt orders the seizure of all Japanese assets in the United States.
28: Japanese troops occupy southern French Indochina. The Vichy French colonial government is allowed by the Japanese to continue to administer Vietnam. French repression continues. The Vichy French also agree to the occupation by the Japanese of bases in Indochina.
: The Germans push against Smolensk, and in the meantime solidify their presence in the Baltic states; native Jews are being exterminated.
31: Lewis B. Hershey succeeds Clarence Dykstra as Director of the Selective Service System in the United States.
: Under instructions from Adolf Hitler, Nazi official Hermann Göring, orders SS general Reinhard Heydrich to "submit to me as soon as possible a general plan of the administrative material and financial measures necessary for carrying out the desired final solution of the Jewish question."

August 1941
1: The US announces an oil embargo against "aggressors."
: Japanese occupy Saigon, South Vietnam.
5: German armies trap Red Army forces in Smolensk pocket and take 300,000 soldiers; Orel is taken.
6: Germans take Smolensk.
: American and British governments warn Japan not to invade Thailand.
9: Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill meet at NS Argentia, Newfoundland. The Atlantic Charter is created, signed, and released to the world press.
11: Malta is relieved by a convoy.
: Chungking, the nominal capital of Nationalist China located far up the Yangtze River, suffers several days of heavy bombing.
12: Hitler, against the advice of his generals, shifts some forces from the Moscow front to Leningrad and the Crimean offensives.
18: Adolf Hitler orders a temporary halt to Nazi Germany's systematic euthanasia of mentally ill and handicapped due to protests. However, graduates of the Action T4 operation were then transferred to concentration camps, where they continued in their trade.
22: German forces close in on Leningrad; the citizens continue improvising fortifications.
25: British and Soviet troops invade Persia (Iran) to save the Abadan oilfields and the important railways and routes to Soviet Union for the supply of war material.

27: Another U-boat is forced to surface off Ireland and its Enigma machine is captured.
31: The first signs appear that a Leningrad "siege" is beginning.

September 1941
1: With the assistance of Finnish armies in the North, Leningrad is now completely cut off.
: A pro-German Government of National Salvation formed in Serbia under Milan Nedić. It is informally known as Nedić's Serbia.
4: The USS Greer becomes the first United States warship fired upon by a German U-boat in the war, even though the United States is a neutral power. Tension heightens between the two nations as a result. The US is now committed to convoy duties between the Western Hemisphere and Europe.
5: Germany occupies Estonia.
7: Berlin is heavily hit by RAF bombers.
8: Siege of Leningrad begins-a reasonable date to start measuring "the 900 days." German forces begin a siege against the Soviet Union's second-largest city, Leningrad; Stalin orders the Volga Deutsche deported to Siberia.
10: German armies now have Kiev completely surrounded
.

: Controversial speech by Charles Lindbergh with heavy anti-Semitic overtones.
11: Franklin D. Roosevelt orders the United States Navy to shoot on sight if any ship or convoy is threatened.
15: "Self-government" of Estonia, headed by Hjalmar Mäe, is appointed by German military administration.
16: Reza Pahlavi, Shah of Iran is forced to resign in favour of his son Mohammad Reza Pahlavi of Iran under pressure from the United Kingdom and the Soviet Union.
19: German capture of Kiev is now formal. The Red Army forces have suffered many casualties in defending this important city in the Soviet Union south.
25: The German armies now seem to have isolated the Caucasus region and are ready to absorb this oil-rich area.

26: The US Naval Command orders an all-out war on Axis shipping in American waters.
27: The National Liberation Front (EAM) is founded in Greece.
28: German SS troops kill over 30,000 Jews at Babi Yar, on the outskirts of Kiev, Ukraine.
: The first uprising in the Drama region in Greece against the Bulgarian occupation begins. It is swiftly put down, with ca. 3,000, mostly civilians, dead.

October 1941
2: Operation Typhoon - German "Central" forces begin an all-out offensive against Moscow. Leading the defense of the capital is General Georgi Zhukov, already a Hero of Soviet Union for his command in the conflict against the Japanese in the Russian Far East and at Leningrad.
3: Mahatma Gandhi urges his followers to begin a passive resistance against British rule in India.
7: Heavy RAF night bombings of Berlin, the Ruhr, and Cologne, but with heavy losses too.
8: In their invasion of the southern Soviet Union, Germany reaches the Sea of Azov with the capture of Mariupol. However, there are signs that the invasion is beginning to bog down as rainy weather creates muddy roads for both tanks and men.
10: German armies encircle about 660,000 Red Army troops near Vyasma (east of Smolensk); some make a glowing prediction of the end of the war.
12: HMS Ark Royal delivers a squadron of Hurricane fighter planes to Malta.
13: Germans attempt another drive toward Moscow as the once muddy ground hardens.
14: Temperatures fall further on the Moscow front; heavy snows follow and immobilize German tanks.
15: The Germans drive on Moscow.
16: Soviet Union government begins move eastward to Samara, a city on the Volga, but Stalin remains in Moscow. The citizens of Moscow frantically build tank traps and other fortifications for the coming siege.

17: The destroyer USS Kearney is torpedoed and damaged by U-boat U-568 near Iceland, killing eleven sailors; they are the first American military casualties of the war.
: The government of Prince Fumimaro Konoye, prime minister of Japan, collapses, leaving little hope for peace in the Pacific.
18: Red Army troop reinforcements arrive in Moscow from Siberia; Stalin is assured that the Japanese will not attack the USSR from the East.
: General Hideki Tojo becomes the 40th Prime Minister of Japan.
19: An official "state of siege" is announced in Moscow; The city is under martial law.
20: Lt. Col. Fritz Hotz, the German commander in Nantes, is killed by Resistance; 50 hostages are shot in reprisal. The incident will become a model for future occupation policies.
21: New Zealand troops land in Egypt and take over Fort Capuzzo.
: Negotiations in Washington between the US and Japan seem headed toward failure.
22: Rostov-on-Don, an important hub on the Southern front, is taken by the Germans.
23: Heavy desert fighting in Libya, as Rommel thwarts "Operation Crusader" near Tobruk.
24: Kharkov, an important mining and industrial centre in Ukraine, falls to the German Army Group South forces.
27: German Army Group South forces reach Sevastopol in the Crimea, but the tanks of the "Northern" forces are slow or stopped entirely by mud. The leading tanks are on the outskirts of Moscow.
30: Franklin Delano Roosevelt approves US$1 billion in Lend-Lease aid to the Soviet Union.

31: The destroyer USS Reuben James is torpedoed by Erich Topp's U-552 near Iceland, killing more than 100 United States Navy sailors. It makes headlines because it is the first loss of an American "neutral warship."

November 1941
1: President Franklin D. Roosevelt announces that the U.S. Coast Guard will now be under the direction of the U.S. Navy, a transition of authority usually reserved only for wartime.
2: Political conflict in Yugoslavia as leftists under Tito (Josip Broz) are in competition with the more conservative Serbs under Draža Mihailović.
3: Germans take Kursk.
6: Soviet leader Joseph Stalin addresses the Soviet Union for only the second time during his three-decade rule (the first time was earlier that year on July 2). He states that even though 350,000 troops were killed in German attacks so far, that the Germans have lost 4.5 million soldiers (a gross exaggeration) and that Soviet victory was near.
7: Heavy RAF night bombings of Berlin, the Ruhr, and Cologne, but with heavy losses.
9: Force K the Light Cruisers HMS Penelope and HMS Aurora and Destroyers HMS Lively and HMS Lance sunk 7 merchant ships a tanker and 1 Destroyer during the Battle of the Duisburg Convoy
12: Battle of Moscow - Temperatures around Moscow drop to minus 12 °C and the Soviet Union launches ski troops for the first time against the freezing German forces near the city.
12: The HMS Ark Royal delivers a squadron of Hurricane fighter planes to Malta.
13: Germans start a new offensive against Moscow as the muddy ground freezes again.
: The aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal is hit by German U-boat U-81
14: HMS Ark Royal capsizes and sinks, having been torpedoed by U 81.
15: The Germans drive on Moscow.

17: Joseph Grew, the United States ambassador to Japan, cables the State Department that Japan had plans to launch an attack against Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (his cable was ignored).
18: Operation Crusader: British troops cross into Libya and at least temporarily relieve the Siege of Tobruk.
19: Australian light cruiser HMAS Sydney and the German auxiliary cruiser Kormoran sink each other off the coast of Western Australia. All 648 crewnen are lost on HMAS Sydney.
22: Rostov-on-Don, an important hub on the southern front is taken by the Germans.
: Britain issues an ultimatum to Finland to end war with Soviet Union or face war with the Allies.
: Rommel starts counteroffensive, retakes Sidi Rezegh (south of Tobruk) which the British had taken a few days earlier. British tank losses are heavy.
23: Rommel's attack continues around Sidi Rezegh;
British losses continue to rise.
24: The United States grants Lend-Lease to the Free French.
: Rommel begins a surprising 15-mile foray into Egypt; he meets no opposition.
25: U-331 sinks British battleship HMS Barham while covering Mediterranean convoys.

26: Japanese attack fleet of 33 warships and auxiliary craft, including six aircraft carriers, sailed from northern Japan for the Hawaiian Islands; The Hull note ultimatum is delivered to Japan by the United States.
26: After his brief dash into Egypt, Rommel retreats to Bardia for refuelling; it is during this brief withdrawal that Tobruk is temporarily relieved when the British 8th Army meets with the besieged.
27: Battle of Moscow - German Panzers are on the outskirts of Moscow.
: In Italian East Africa, the last Italian armed forces in East Africa surrender at Gondar.


December 1941
1: Malta marks its 1,000th bombing raid.
: Fiorello H. La Guardia publishes Administrative Order 9 creating the Civil Air Patrol for U.S Coastal Patrol and naming its national commander Major General John F. Curry.
2: Prime Minister Tojo rejects "peace feelers" from the US.
3: Conscription in the United Kingdom now includes all men between 18 and 50. Women will not be neglected since they will serve in fire brigades and in women's auxiliary groups.
4: Japanese naval and army forces continue to move toward Pearl Harbor and South-east Asia.
5: Germans call off the attack on Moscow, now 11 miles away; Soviet Union counter-attack during a heavy blizzard.
: The United Kingdom declares war on Finland.

7: (December 8, Asian time zones) Japan invades Thailand and British Malaya, before launching aerial attacks on US forces at Pearl Harbor, Guam and Wake Island; Japan declares war on the United States and the United Kingdom. Air attacks also on Hong Kong, Singapore, the Philippines, and Shanghai. Canada declares war on Japan The US Office of Strategic Services (OSS) forms an alliance with Ho Chi Minh and his Viet Minh guerrillas.
: German "Night and Fog decree" dictating the elimination of anti-Nazis in Western Europe.
8: The United States, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands and New Zealand declare war on Japan
: Japanese forces take the Gilbert Islands (which include Tarawa). Clark Field in the Philippines is bombed, and many American aircraft are destroyed on the ground.
9: China and Australia officially declare war on Japan.
10: British battlecruiser HMS Repulse and battleship HMS Prince of Wales sunk by Japanese air attack.
11: Germany and Italy declare war on the United States. The United States reciprocates and declares war on Germany and Italy. US forces repel a Japanese landing attempt at Wake Island.
: Japanese invade Burma.
12: Japanese landings on the southern Philippine Islands -- Samar, Jolo, Mindanao.
: The United States and the United Kingdom declare war on Romania and Bulgaria after they had declared war on both the United States and the United Kingdom; India declares war on Japan; United States seizes French ship Normandie.
13: Hungary declares war on the United States and the United Kingdom, the United States and the United Kingdom reciprocate and declare war on Hungary.
: Japanese under General Yamahorsehockya continue their push into Malaya. Under General Homma the Japanese forces are firmly established in the northern Philippines. Hong Kong is threatened.
14: The British cruiser HMS Galatea is sunk by U-557 off Alexandria, beginning a series of naval defeats for the Allies.
15: Italian "human torpedoes" sink two British battleships, the HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Valiant in Alexandria harbour.
: Allied troops push Rommel back at the Gazala line.
16: Rommel orders a withdrawal all the way to El Agheila, where he had begun in March. He awaits reinforcements of men and tanks.

: Japan invades Borneo.
: The German offensive around Moscow is now at a complete halt.
17: Battle of Sevastopol begins.

18: Japanese troops land on Hong Kong Island.
19: Hitler becomes Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the German Army
19: Force K with the HMS Neptune in lead struck a minefield the HMS Neptune was sunk with a loss of 766 crew and 1 survivor.
20: The battle for Wake Island continues with several Japanese ships sunk or damaged.
: The "Arcadia Conference": Churchill is a guest in the White House. Overall strategies for fighting the War are agreed upon.
21: The suffering of besieged Leningrad continues; thousands die of starvation and various diseases. It is estimated that about 3,000 are dying each day.

22: The Japanese land at Lingayan Gulf, on the northern part of Luzon in the Philippines.
23: A second Japanese landing attempt on Wake Island is successful, and the American garrison surrenders after hours of fighting.
: General MacArthur declares Manila an "Open City."
23: Japanese forces land on Sarawak (Borneo).
24: American forces retreat into the peninsula of Bataan.
: Japanese bomb Rangoon.
25: Hong Kong surrenders to Japan.
25: Allied forces retake Benghazi.
: Red Army and Navy amphibious forces land at Kerch, in the Crimea; their occupation will last only through April.
27: British and Norwegian Commandos raid the Norwegian port of Vågsøy, causing Hitler to reinforce the garrison and defences.

28: Japanese paratroopers land on Sumatra.
30: The first "Liberty Ship", the SS Patrick Henry is launched. Liberty Ships will prove to be major parts of the Allied supply system.


It's not If Hitler won, but what if the events of 1941 went this way instead of that. What if this happened instead or that instead of this.
What If?
 
TL:DR

US and USSR would win it eventually.
 
I think I'll try this in HOI3, because in that game ANYTHING is possible.
 
TL:DR
US and USSR would win it eventually.
Depends. If the US have the guts to go beat Germans after Japan had been defeated and if Germany wouldn't have managed to construct the Atomic bomb - yes for sure.

But the Pacific War may have very well caused the American Public to get too war weary. Especially because they would have continued to isolate themselves from European trouble as they wished to since WWI and therefor might want to stick to that.

Considering all I know about the SU and Nazi-Germany a war between those two is inevitable. Not only Hitler but also Stalin liked the idea of conquering Europe and not only Hitler but also Stalins worked on a plan to do so. A lasting partnership is out of the question.
Now should the US stay calm Nazi-Germany could actually beat the SU I think. But I am not sure.
 
This belongs in the (Alternate) History Forum.
 
Interesting and well written, but there is no way Stalin would have tried to officially join the Axis. Just no way. in the long run, I think the USSR would be in big trouble here unless they attack the Germans quickly while they have a slim chance, and if the USSR goes out, Germany has won, the Brits and yanks can forget it.
 
I believe that Stalin never expected a war against Nazi-Germany,as he killed a lot of experienced generals and officials before the war broke out.
For Hitler,in fact,he killed himself,as Napoleon also suffered defeat in the same way.
In fact,Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact was good for both side.
After the war,Stalin realized that he also suffered from the war as USA became unbeatable.And if Hitler did not make that mistake,both Nazi-Germany and USSR may still alive today.
It's impossible for Nazi-Germany to invade USA as Nazi only maintained a weak navy and need at least 5-6 years to build enough ships.And for the USA side,I do not know what would happen after USA got Atomic Bombs and defeated Japan.But the atomic bomb might force Hitler and Stalin to sign defensive pacts to protect themselves from being invaded by USA.
Stalin knew that USA was developing Atomic Bomb,as his spies even got the blueprints later.Although USSR's first Atomic bomb exploded only in 1949,they might achieve that goal 2 years earlier if the war against Nazi-Germany did not happen.And for Nazi-Germany,they might even explode the Atomic Bomb earlier than USA,as they were already close to the goal,and were prevented and disturbed by the war.

At last,if Britain lost the war earlier,Japan might abandon the plan of Pacific war,they also knew that their navy was weaker than US navy,so if they obtained the supply of oil and rubber in other way,they might estimate the risk of war again and made different decision.
 
I believe that Stalin never expected a war against Nazi-Germany,as he killed a lot of experienced generals and officials before the war broke out.
It is true that Stalin did not expect Hitler to attack the SU that quickly. But on the long run he aimed on a confrontation as well. I can't give any details as I can't get hold of my source right know, but it has been revealed that before the war Stalin planed to manufacture massive numbers of tanks and airplanes. And he also had a purpose in mind for those troops - conquering Europe. Germany's sudden attack destroyed those plans.
It's impossible for Nazi-Germany to invade USA as Nazi only maintained a weak navy and need at least 5-6 years to build enough ships.And for the USA side
The mere idea is laughable. Germany didn't even have the navy to conquer Great Britain. Maybe such a navy could have been constructed in 5-6 years, but a navy capable of taking on the far away USA? And even if Germany happened to have an almighty navy the German manpower never would have sufficed to conquer and hold US-soil.
I do not know what would happen after USA got Atomic Bombs and defeated Japan.But the atomic bomb might force Hitler and Stalin to sign defensive pacts to protect themselves from being invaded by USA.
Why? In reality it seemed to fit US-interests to side with the SU. Why should that change?
Stalin knew that USA was developing Atomic Bomb,as his spies even got the blueprints later.Although USSR's first Atomic bomb exploded only in 1949,they might achieve that goal 2 years earlier if the war against Nazi-Germany did not happen.And for Nazi-Germany,they might even explode the Atomic Bomb earlier than USA,as they were already close to the goal,and were prevented and disturbed by the war.
According to an conspiracy theory German know-how gained by the advancing Americans enabled the American atom bomb in the first place. :crazyeye:
 
That article doesn't say that at all.

Edit: It makes an unclear assertion that talks took place on same, but doesn't back it up. Having read scores if not hundreds of books on WW2, Stalin and Hitler, and never seen reference to this before I'd really want to see something else on this. But I'm not being rhetorical, by all means post more if you can find it.
 
Well, I don't think things would have ended all that differently, Germany and Japan would still have fallen (though it might have taken longer), and the end result would still be a cold war between America and the USSR.

1) The war in the Pacific will still be easily won by American forces all you have to do is look at American production versus Japanese production during world war two to see this. By 1944 we were cranking out new carriers practically every week. And without Germany to as a waste of war material America would crush the Japanese, probably faster than we actually did.

2) War between Germany and the USSR was inevitable, and the longer Germany waits the stronger the USSR gets. The only reason Germany had any chance was because of the Soviet purges during the 30's, by the 40's the USSR was strengthening much faster than Germany was (hence why Germany struck in 1940 irl instead of waiting until the war with the UK was over). Additionally it quite unlikely that Germany would win a war with the USSR even if America hadn't intervened. In reality US/British intervention in Europe was fairly minimal before 1943 when we invaded Italy and finally had enough bombers to begin massive bombing raids. By this time the Soviet Union had already gained the upper hand, it is doubtful that Germany would have won even without any US/British to deal with.

3) American nuclear technology was far ahead especially given German scientists had fled to America pre-war, America would almost certainly have ended up at war with Nazi Germany within the next few years and even if they somehow defeated and/or signed a treaty with the USSR American nuclear weapons would have brought the Nazis to their knees sometime in the late 1940's.

Fact is the Axis were so badly outnumbered on all sides and had so little industrial capacity (compared to the US and USSR), that they were screwed in almost every scenario from the moment war was declared.

The only scenario where I could realistically see Nazi Germany surviving past 1950 would be if Moscow had fallen in 1940 and the Soviet government had completely collapsed and surrendered (highly unlikely the Soviets would probably have still fought the Germans to a stalemate, but this is a worst case scenario here), AND the Germans had been able to develop the atomic bomb by the time the Americans did. If this happened we would end up with a US Nazi cold war similar to the actual US USSR cold war, but I think both of those occurrences would be highly unlikely. Finally it is important to remember that their were many assassination attempts on Hitler and a massive resistance across Europe. Even in this scenario Germany would probably have collapsed much more quickly than the USSR did, leading to worldwide American dominance starting in the 1960's and probably still lasting until the rise of China.
 
To conquer Britain,enough airplanes were enough.Although Royal Air Force had successfully held the Channel for several months with the help of radar,if Nazi did not divide their air force in at least 3 directions,including north africa,east europe and the Channel,they could finally outnumber the Royal Air Force and control the Channel after several months,or may be a year.
And if the air force could sink all the ships in the Channel,and clear an area with bombs,Nazi soldiers could even cross the Channel in the small wooden boats,or any kind of ships they could find.
But in order to conquer USA,they needed carriers and all other kind of warships.

I prefer to set the strongest side as my potential enemy,as in order to maintain the independence of the country,the world should be balanced without any superpower which is unbeatable.And the Atomic bomb could ruin a city at once,which was too horrible for other countries.So did the productivity of USA.It's natural that 2nd and 3rd sign a defensive pact against 1st.
 
But you ignored that if Stalin decided to crush Nazi-Germany,he could not prevent the USA from getting the Western europe.Then the result would be similar,USSR would suffer in the cold war.
If both Stalin and Hitler were wise enough,they would keep both side alive.Only in this way,USA could be kept away from the Eurasia by a pact between them,and both side could survive longer.
This decision would lead to a triangle world,which is completely different from cold war.
 
But you ignored that if Stalin decided to crush Nazi-Germany,he could not prevent the USA from getting the Western europe.Then the result would be similar,USSR would suffer in the cold war.
If both Stalin and Hitler were wise enough,they would keep both side alive.Only in this way,USA could be kept away from the Eurasia by a pact between them,and both side could survive longer.
This decision would lead to a triangle world,which is completely different from cold war.

Except that this couldn't happen for two reasons...

One: Hitler hated Communists, and Stalin hated Fascists. Both regimes were built on ideologies which were the antithesis of each other. In fact before the Nazis came to power they were competing with the Communist party in Germany and there was often violence between the two. Germany and the USSR could never have been long term allies.
Two: More importantly Nazi Germany was politically unstable without a war to motivate the masses political collapse would have been likely and certainly Nazi Germany would have collapsed when Hitler died (he was not terribly healthy, was rather old, and the target of many assassination attempts). Finally ongoing guerrilla wars in France and other occupied regions would have been supported by America and Britain severely draining the Nazis and further destabilizing their government.

Thus the Soviets would have been stupid to ally with the Germans, not only were they dangerous and highly unstable, but also they were an immediate threat for geographic reasons while America was safely on the other side off the world. Also from the Soviet perspective American ideology was far less distasteful than the Nazi one. Finally remember China was Communist and a fellow enemy of America during the actual cold war and the Soviets didn't sign treaties them and nearly went to war with them several times, if the Soviets wouldn't ally with Communist China why would you expect them to ally with Germany?
 
You should understand that Soviets collapsed because of these mistakes,they decided to break the pact with China,then they were isolated by themselves as USA set up relationship with China at once!
In my opinion,the policy and ideologies of a country should only be decided by its people,and other countries should not try to interfere it.And it's stupid to decide your tactic by your love or hate.In fact,if I really need to become an ally of my original enemy which I hate most,I will take it only because it will be good for me,and for the people in my country.

Although Hitler hate communists,if he learned more from his ancestor,Bismarck,he might be able to learn how to control his mood,and how to make right decisions for the country.So did Stalin.
 
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