What is Supremacy - Dev Blog

[Lheim]

The bit about the actual 'you' being destroyed when you're copied into a machine, or regrown from a clone vat, or whatever, has always bothered me as well. I don't think society would accept it easily.. in fact, probably not at all. It would be a different experience from the sheer philosophy of it when you're sitting there in a chair with a machine set up around your brain and a syringe of suicide drugs prodding your arm.

An interesting way to get around the conundrum would be just to integrate a small 'recording unit' into the brain. Perhaps it does a few other functions than memory recording, too. But the point is - it doesn't replace 'you'. It becomes a part of you.

Then when you die, the small durable unit is removed, and at least something survives that can be put into a new body. It'd still be a traumatic injury, but recoverable from. The egg of the phoenix, yes?

 

[Lord Tirian]

An interesting way to get around the conundrum would be just to integrate a small 'recording unit' into the brain. Perhaps it does a few other functions than memory recording, too. But the point is - it doesn't replace 'you'. It becomes a part of you.

I think that's also how "mind-uploads" would work while preserving continuity of self (that's really what you want to be immortal - have a sensible continuity of "you") - you integrate some computing into your brain and expand bit by bit, same way the body slowly regenerates dead cells.

Of course, consciousness is a vague thing anyway, seeing how we go unconscious every day to sleep (and hence experience interruption in conscious existence), yet accept that when we wake up, we're still "us" and not just a new consciousness with the same memories.

 

[Lheim]

I think that's also how "mind-uploads" would work while preserving continuity of self (that's really what you want to be immortal - have a sensible continuity of "you") - you integrate some computing into your brain and expand bit by bit, same way the body slowly regenerates dead cells.

Of course, consciousness is a vague thing anyway, seeing how we go unconscious every day to sleep (and hence experience interruption in conscious existence), yet accept that when we wake up, we're still "us" and not just a new consciousness with the same memories.

I definitely see life as the ongoing process rather than a mere assemblage of facts that can be 'copied'. The important bit for me is maintaining the continuity of the process.

Yeah, it wouldn't matter so much if say, for instance, nanotech slowly 'grew' over my brain's natural material. How many years does it take for every atom in my body to be replaced by natural process? Probably not that many, and we don't feel it as an interruption of life. It'd be the same deal.

 

[Lancor]

I definitely see life as the ongoing process rather than a mere assemblage of facts that can be 'copied'. The important bit for me is maintaining the continuity of the process.

Yeah, it wouldn't matter so much if say, for instance, nanotech slowly 'grew' over my brain's natural material. How many years does it take for every atom in my body to be replaced by natural process? Probably not that many, and we don't feel it as an interruption of life. It'd be the same deal.

That's actually quite clever. Who says you need to upload your brain into an android body? Why not just replace your body slowly molecule by molecule through an artificial one. In theory, if executed flawlessly you would have switched bodies in the same life. No part of our bodies would cause death if it is removed but only the size of molecules.

 

[Darkwind]

That's actually quite clever. Who says you need to upload your brain into an android body? Why not just replace your body slowly molecule by molecule through an artificial one. In theory, if executed flawlessly you would have switched bodies in the same life. No part of our bodies would cause death if it is removed but only the size of molecules.

Yes that is one of the ways that I saw in some transhumanist article.

In fact we already know that there are new brain cells that are produced every day in our body, we also have stem cell research that shows stem cell can change into brain cell . So the idea that we can replace our brain (consciousness ) bit by bit is very real, in fact our body is doing it already.

Also, I do not think we should think of biology and machine as two distinct things; while current the 2 lines of science are quite separate; there is no reason to believe that it will stay like that forever. It is very possible that future DNA/carbon based cell can communicate with silicon base computer/AI directly; as long as our genetic engineering technology is advance enough. We haven't even include nano-computer here, which can change our concept of what is "machine" in a fundamental way.

(Previously many people think that brain cell cannot be produced after we were born, but recently it was proven wrong.

 

[GeoModder]

(Previously many people think that brain cell cannot be produced after we were born, but recently it was proven wrong.

I'd like to have a link to the article(s) with this proof of brain cell regeneration.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Actually the cylons had their own mind re-uploaded via (presumably) FTL communication (that didn't work in any other situation, so a bit handwavy) to a resurrection ship, if one is in range (otherwise they die) - they don't make backups.

Yep, there could be a resurrection station wonder or something like that for them

 

[Darkwind]

I'd like to have a link to the article(s) with this proof of brain cell regeneration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuron

I do not recall where I read this previously, but you can find several sources that are related to this in the wiki.

 

[GeoModder]

Thank you, but that's a bit too general.

 

[Freedom Geek]

An interesting way to get around the conundrum would be just to integrate a small 'recording unit' into the brain. Perhaps it does a few other functions than memory recording, too. But the point is - it doesn't replace 'you'. It becomes a part of you.

Then when you die, the small durable unit is removed, and at least something survives that can be put into a new body. It'd still be a traumatic injury, but recoverable from. The egg of the phoenix, yes?

Congratulations you've independently reinvented the corticle stack. Of course these guys use it in conjunction with other forms of brain uploading, not instead of it.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Congratulations you've independently reinvented the corticle stack. Of course these guys use it in conjunction with other forms of brain uploading, not instead of it.

They could do a lot worse than using Eclipse Phase as inspiration/reference material. While a lot of ideas in there have been seen before, it's a clever mixture of the ideas and making it into a very game-able posthuman setting.

 

[bouncymischa]

They could do a lot worse than using Eclipse Phase as inspiration/reference material. While a lot of ideas in there have been seen before, it's a clever mixture of the ideas and making it into a very game-able posthuman setting.

I really do need to pick up the books for that game...

 

[Freedom Geek]

Yeah, you could certainly get some interesting ideas from Eclipse Phase - trading memories as XPs, muses, ghostrider modules...

Though some tweaking may be required as most of the factions of Eclipse Phase are Supremacy in ideology save the bioconservatives like the Jovians (who are Purity) and people like the Preservationists (who are harmony) and yet these factions use a lot of biotechnology.

I really do need to pick up the books for that game...

It's creative commons; you can legally download the books for free here. Now they are still asking for people to buy the books if they have the cash so if you could help the developers out too that would be great.