What is Supremacy - Dev Blog

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

They probably used wormholes, or just slow spaceship travel to get to the planet

If they could travel at insane speeds, why bother to spend so much on building warpgates (and why don't more spaceships arive in mid game if they don't), Earth colapse?

 

[Krajzen]

Personally I really really hope Supremacy won't be 'aggressive transhumanist cyborg faction' :/ I mean, I am very interested in transhumanizm, I can even say I like it, generally I can say I believe in the power of science and progress, and so far it seems Supremacy is

'ok we own technology survival so let's leave everything and focus only on turning ourselves in arrogant killmachines willing to force transhumanist views on the entire humanity'

Affinities should leave freedom in terms of morality, so player could decide whether he is really going to be such bastard or not...

Although since I realized 'perfecting humans through biological, genetical and cognitive modifications' is the part of Purity, which is going to preserve and perfect the human being and NOT as I thought before 'avoid any progress', I will probably end as the great fan of Purity.

I am not sure if I really like current image of Supremacy - ruthless turning the entire humanity into machines...

 

[SamBC]

That's not correct. In BNW there are upgrades between unit classes, so we have 3 melee fighters, 5 gunpowder fighters, etc. Actually the only unit classes which have more than 4 units (5) are siege and gunpowder. and gunpowder didn't have fifth unit in vanilla.

I think the point was the upgrade lines, which are to do with unit role, not a not-really-gameplay-relevant detail like gunpowder. Riflemen are the same role class as warriors.

 

[Werty1066]

On the subject of leaders, didn't they say that as the game progresses leaders would change to match their chosen affinity. Cyborg leaders would be awesome.
Source:http://http://gamecrate.newegg.com/civilization-beyond-earth-hands-details-galore/
It's at the bottom where they talk about affinities.

 

[reddishrecue]

That link, I clicked on it and didn't work. .. ^^

 

[MatThePhat]

There's no reason to think robotic beings would have a humanist morality (that fits much closer with Purity), free will and rights just aren't logical metrics.

But yeah, for vcs it seems Contact is the most pacifist one. All the others require a measure of military, production, and technology. In fact, I think the Purity victory will be the most militaristic in practice, if not in theme, because it forces you to find living space for all the new colonists.

I vote for wormholes being our mode of transportation. However, I don't think it's far fetched for colonies to become more advanced than their motherland. The most analogous parallel in our own history, settling of America, had a few rag tag religious fundamentalists, and other undesirables going from freezing in the cold to a industrial powerhouse that completely dwarfed it's mother country in 200 years. BE scenario is even more extreme. Earth is old Europe, except it doesn't have colonies feeding it raw materials and new substances to promote its economy or sciences. It's constantly sending the best and brightest (not the worthless) away on colonization efforts with no immediate return. No communication means earth learns nothing about how floatstone reverses the laws of physics (imagine if Europe didn't learn about the discovery of electricity, or the invention of the light bulb). The colony has access to a world entirely unexploited with resources beyond our wildest dreams and alien life to research. I'll be honest, just based upon what we've seen and what we're proposing, old earth doesn't stand a chance.

--this be comin' from my cell pho' yo, so plz be up an' forgivin' any mizzlesteaks and breaks (galaxy s4)

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well America is a bad example because it grew because of continuous waves of immigrants.
CBE is not like that.

You do have to assume basically Earth grinding to a halt technologically (essentially the recovery from the Dark Ages/Great Mistake is only a temporary burst..and Earth is slipping into a Great Stagnation)...sort of like China in the renaissance period, but for reasons of survival rather than political short sightedness.

 

[reddishrecue]

Beyond earth does make earth seem like a sort of old world since back in colonial times there used to be an old world which was Europe and then a new world which was America.. Now that America is no longer considered the new world, beyond earth is literally the new world.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think the point was the upgrade lines, which are to do with unit role, not a not-really-gameplay-relevant detail like gunpowder. Riflemen are the same role class as warriors.

Yes, but:
- Spearman upgrade line is hardly the same role.
- Most likely we'll see affinity-specific units with the same roles as the basic ones. Pretty sure, there will be some slow melee fighters, fast melee fighters, ships, etc. So it's the same as in Civ, just without upgrade lines connecting them (and probably not so huge difference in stats).

 

[bouncymischa]

There's no reason to think robotic beings would have a humanist morality (that fits much closer with Purity), free will and rights just aren't logical metrics.

I can't really agree that Purity would be more innately humanist than Supremacy. Given Purity's opposition to immortality and their belief that death is part of the human condition, it could be argued that they feel suffering is part of the human condition as well ("suffering builds character!"). There's also plenty of instances of humans creating tyrannical societies, so simply trying to preserve the human character means there's as much chance of a tyranny arising as opposed to a free society.

On the other hand, there are plenty of instances of post-human societies adopting humanist and libertarian outlooks. I've even seen examples of purely rational AIs arguing that free will and humanism are rational and logical systems. So there's nothing to say a post-human society with cyborgs and AIs wouldn't adopt a humanist or libertarian outlook.

 

[SamBC]

Yes, but:
- Spearman upgrade line is hardly the same role.

Sure it is - it continues to be the counter to the fast attack unit. The speed with which it can do that varies, but it's anti-cavalry until cavalry upgrade to armoured units, and then it's anti-armour.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Sure it is - it continues to be the counter to the fast attack unit. The speed with which it can do that varies, but it's anti-cavalry until cavalry upgrade to armoured units, and then it's anti-armour.

It's just one of its properties. Other than this, it's:
- The only melee (foot) unit which doesn't require resources (Spearmen and Pikemen).
- Alternative cavalry, resource requirement added.
- Anti-tank unit, foot again, no resources again. Note that it's not anti-cavalry anymore, it's bonuses are against tanks.
- The only howering unit in the game, requiring resources again.
I wouldn't call these units similar. Personally, I found the original upgrade path of spears-pikes to be more logical.

 

[awesome]

I can't really agree that Purity would be more innately humanist than Supremacy. Given Purity's opposition to immortality and their belief that death is part of the human condition, it could be argued that they feel suffering is part of the human condition as well ("suffering builds character!"). There's also plenty of instances of humans creating tyrannical societies, so simply trying to preserve the human character means there's as much chance of a tyranny arising as opposed to a free society.

On the other hand, there are plenty of instances of post-human societies adopting humanist and libertarian outlooks. I've even seen examples of purely rational AIs arguing that free will and humanism are rational and logical systems. So there's nothing to say a post-human society with cyborgs and AIs wouldn't adopt a humanist or libertarian outlook.

And there's also the possibility that the Supremacists will see the "human condition" as just that, a condition. Obviously, there's no evidence that doesn't come from fiction, but there's plenty of evidence that does, including their victory condition. Will it be possible to be a peaceful Supremacist? I'm sure it will. Will you be able to dip into Supremacy and Harmony, getting some of the benefits from each? Almost definitely, and I'm sure you can also dip into Purity, even if it's technically against the spirit of that affinity. But, do I think that Supremacy is meant to play aggressively? Yeah.

 

[AriochIV]

It's hard to call an ideology that advocates the genocide of the human race "humanist."

 

[awesome]

Exactly.

 

[GeoModder]

They simply consider Supremacy the next step of human evolution.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It's hard to call an ideology that advocates the genocide of the human race "humanist."

"Humanists" are free to call for the violent overthrow of human institutions that enslave or lessen humanity.
Slavery is a human institution most self-described humanists object to.
Biological form is a human institution Supremacy humanists would object to.

Emancipation is a humanist solution to human institutions that enslave or lessen humanity. (Like bodies)

 

[Mustakrakish]

I can't really agree that Purity would be more innately humanist than Supremacy. Given Purity's opposition to immortality and their belief that death is part of the human condition, it could be argued that they feel suffering is part of the human condition as well ("suffering builds character!"). There's also plenty of instances of humans creating tyrannical societies, so simply trying to preserve the human character means there's as much chance of a tyranny arising as opposed to a free society.

Where did you get that from? From what we've heard, purity aims to create perfect humans, immortality and all does not conflict that, quite the contrary.

The difference is HOW they pursue said goal. Purity through genetics, supremacy through brain in a can / consiousness upload.

 

[Freedom Geek]

There's no reason to think robotic beings would have a humanist morality

If they're literally uploaded humans there's plenty of reasons why they'd have that sort of morality.

Or if they're AIs then you might choose to specifically build them to hold those sorts of moral positions.

free will and rights just aren't logical metrics.

Values are inherently arational (but this includes even things we'd traditionally not see as values like trying to ensure your continued survival). You can't choose between two internally consistent value systems based on one being more "logical" than the other.

 

[MatThePhat]

Well America is a bad example because it grew because of continuous waves of immigrants.
CBE is not like that.

You have a good point there, but after a certain critical mass i think the population was largely able to grow through it's own inertia, and 8 factions worth of people starting out is a good number. I still think it's similar enough to be realistic.

<br />
<br />
I can't really agree that Purity would be more innately humanist than Supremacy. Given Purity's opposition to immortality and their belief that death is part of the human condition, it could be argued that they feel suffering is part of the human condition as well ("suffering builds character!"). There's also plenty of instances of humans creating tyrannical societies, so simply trying to preserve the human character means there's as much chance of a tyranny arising as opposed to a free society.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, there are plenty of instances of post-human societies adopting humanist and libertarian outlooks. I've even seen examples of purely rational AIs arguing that free will and humanism are rational and logical systems. So there's nothing to say a post-human society with cyborgs and AIs wouldn't adopt a humanist or libertarian outlook.<br/>

I am very interested in this concept, because in my mind it sounds like it would break the suspension of disbelief. What is some good fiction that touches on, justifies, and elaborates on this idea?


KrikkitTwo summarized perfectly a supremacist's viewpoint. Call it "the war to end death" or something catchy like that. And honestly, barring certain religious beliefs, it's hard to say they're not justified.

--this be comin' from my cell pho' yo, so plz be up an' forgivin' any mizzlesteaks and breaks (galaxy s4)