What is the most efficient language in the world?

Number of characters in Chinese (1994): 85,568

From wiki, I'll pass on learning that language.

Nor do I want to draw
Character_Gui_Trad.png

instead of writing out 'tortoise'.

Well China uses simplified writing these days, but it's still hard to learn, most especially for second-language speakers (eg myself).
 
We should all switch to phonetic spelling. If that is the one I am thinking about, keep mixing those up. The one that adhers to a standard pronounciation (like RP for english). English would benefit from it and most languages (like Spanish) won´t notice it.

I don't see a need for changing our spellings. Spellings help us distinguish between words, and contain information about the derivation of a word that reminds us of its nuances. In a language such as English, which has numerous words for almost everything (as a result of having stolen things from Greek, Latin, French, German, Norse, Gaelic, Indian languages, and possibly others), the nuances are important, and are what make it efficient.

If people really don't like pronouncing things differently, we should start pronouncing things in the way in which they're spelled.
 
I don't see a need for changing our spellings. Spellings help us distinguish between words, and contain information about the derivation of a word that reminds us of its nuances.

Not quite. You are ignoring homographs ('record' the verb is not pronounced the same as 'record' the noun, 'read' present tense and past, etc), homonyms ('ear' coming from Old English 'eare' as pertains to the bodypart and 'ear' - same in Old English - referring to wheat) and polysemes as well I think, though I do not remember the last one very well so I might be wrong there.

Deriviations in a language like English are tricky at best, non-existant in many cases. 'mouth'-'oral', 'holy'-'saint' does not show any deriviational clues at all unlike German where it would be 'Mund'-'mündlich' and 'heilig'-Heiliger'.

PS: Yes, I, on the other hand, am ignoring homophones like 'sun'/'son'.
 
Not quite. You are ignoring homographs ('record' the verb is not pronounced the same as 'record' the noun, 'read' present tense and past, etc), homonyms ('ear' coming from Old English 'eare' as pertains to the bodypart and 'ear' - same in Old English - referring to wheat) and polysemes as well I think, though I do not remember the last one very well so I might be wrong there.

I was thinking of things like paedophile and pedophile, which, although both perversions, are very different.
 
I was thinking of things like paedophile and pedophile, which, although both perversions, are very different.

isn´t that like 'colour'-'color'? just AmE and BrE standards of spelling?
 
I don't see a need for changing our spellings. Spellings help us distinguish between words, and contain information about the derivation of a word that reminds us of its nuances. In a language such as English, which has numerous words for almost everything (as a result of having stolen things from Greek, Latin, French, German, Norse, Gaelic, Indian languages, and possibly others), the nuances are important, and are what make it efficient.

If people really don't like pronouncing things differently, we should start pronouncing things in the way in which they're spelled.

You have to admit though, there are some spellings that are just asinine. Take the word 'doubt'... That b has never been pronounced... EVER! They just added it to copy its ancestral language (Latin), not even the immediate language the word was taken from (French). Now really... is that in any way useful? Does anyone really care what the ancient Latin root was?
 
Japanese and Chinese both have very efficient writing systems that are constantly dumped on by people with little understanding of them.

I would write tortoise like this: 亀 which has 11 distinct strokes, which is exactly the same as the number of distinct strokes in 'tortoise'.

Wonderful, now how exactly are you going to type those 11 strokes compared to the 11 strokes of tortoise? This is a technological world now, writing isnt nearly as important as how well it works with computers.
 
Wonderful, now how exactly are you going to type those 11 strokes compared to the 11 strokes of tortoise? This is a technological world now, writing isnt nearly as important as how well it works with computers.

On my woefully ill-suited UK keyboard it takes me exactly 6 key presses to come up with 亀. On a Japanese keyboard it would take 4. Tortoise in the other hand takes 8. Just because you don't understand something it doesn't mean it has to be difficult.
 
On my woefully ill-suited UK keyboard it takes me exactly 6 key presses to come up with 亀. On a Japanese keyboard it would take 4. Tortoise in the other hand takes 8. Just because you don't understand something it doesn't mean it has to be difficult.

Since I don't fully understand Sino-Tibetan or Japonic Languages I have to ask.

Isn't it easier to make a sentence/paragraph/whatever out of a standard set of 26 letters instead of 85,000 characters? Does the Far East have something like that in place now?
 
Since I don't fully understand Sino-Tibetan or Japonic Languages I have to ask.

Isn't it easier to make a sentence/paragraph/whatever out of a standard set of 26 letters instead of 85,000 characters? Does the Far East have something like that in place now?

I know that it must seem that way, but you have a few misconceptions. First, you're comparing a character to a letter, which isn't a fair comparison. The only thing a letter tells you (and poorly in English) is the sound. A character gives a meaning, the closest parallel in English is a word. So contrast the number of characters to the number of words in English.

And obviously the number of characters actually used by an individual is vastly smaller, just as the average English speaker only uses a fraction of the words that exist in the English langauge. The average university graduate in Japan knows 3000 characters. This will be a lot higher in China since that's all they use, but nowhere near the insane number you suggested. And when encountering a character for the first time it's almost always possible to infer the reading based on a component of the character that it shares in common with other characters you know.

Japan has two syllabaries, which perform the same role as an alphabet, and yet still retains characters. Japanese without characters is horribly inellegant to read. Even I read Japanese faster with characters rather than without them, and I've only studied for 2 years.

China has various phonetic schemes, but they've never taken off.

There's no spelling in Chinese. Very little in the way of grammar. In it's own way it's a very simple language. I've never studied it but my comprehension of written Chinese is about as high as my comprehension of French or German.

So in summary, no. Writing with characters is, all things considered, no more difficult.
 
Chinese? Ugh. It's terrible.

Pros:
1. The grammar pretty much makes sense. It's elegant, it's simple, and the rules aren't inane like in other languages.
2. No verb conjugation means that you get to use time phrases to mark when things happened, which is easier than conjugating verbs.
3. I'm not sure about the corresponding Japanese grammar, but there is conjugation in Japanese. Ugh. And there are formal vs. informal forms. Ugh again.

Cons:
1. Characters are a pain. There are so many of them.
2. Once you learn a character, you get to learn the phrases they're connected in. Sure, people who want to spread learning Chinese around say things like "Hey! You only need around 2000 characters to read a newspaper!" That's true. It's also true that you not only need to know the character but need to know how to use it. Characters can make these things called compound words, you know. Not to mention those idiosyncratic phrases and such.
3. Chinese only: tones. This is pretty hard to get used to if you're not a native speaker. But depending on how you say the word, you can change its meaning. That's not fun. It's easy for me, but it's not fun for others, I've heard.
4. Japanese only: each character has a ton of ways to pronounce it. Plus there are three alphabets. Not to mention the fact that there are different levels of speaking based on rank and social position and such. Not fun.

Regarding Chinese romanization: The most commonly accepted method is pinyin if I recall correctly. The Chinese government officially advocates some horrible Wade-Giles method where the spelling of words changes depending on which tone the word is. That's terrible. Go with pinyin.
 
On my woefully ill-suited UK keyboard it takes me exactly 6 key presses to come up with 亀. On a Japanese keyboard it would take 4. Tortoise in the other hand takes 8. Just because you don't understand something it doesn't mean it has to be difficult.
I'm using a standard English keyboard and Pinyin input system.

To write 龟 I do this:
(1) type 'g', 'u', 'i' the pronounciation of 龟. (3 key presses)
(2) press space bar. (4 key presses now)
(3) a window pops up containing a list of characters pronounced 'gui'.
(4) bummer, it's not on page 1. press 'page down'. (5 key presses now)
(5) goody, it's on page 2. it's the very 1st one on this page. press '1'. (6 key presses total)
 
I'm using a standard English keyboard and Pinyin input system.

To write 龟 I do this:
(1) type 'g', 'u', 'i' the pronounciation of 龟. (3 key presses)
(2) press space bar. (4 key presses now)
(3) a window pops up containing a list of characters pronounced 'gui'.
(4) bummer, it's not on page 1. press 'page down'. (5 key presses now)
(5) goody, it's on page 2. it's the very 1st one on this page. press '1'. (6 key presses total)

Thankfully the Japanese toneless readings are kinder on my UK keyboard. I type 'k' 'a' 'm' 'e' and hit the space bar (5). 亀 is the first character on the list, enter confirms my choice (1).

On a Japanese keyboard I can just hit 'か'(ka), 'め' (me), space then enter (4).

How do Chinese keyboards handle tones?
 
You have to admit though, there are some spellings that are just asinine. Take the word 'doubt'... That b has never been pronounced... EVER! They just added it to copy its ancestral language (Latin), not even the immediate language the word was taken from (French). Now really... is that in any way useful? Does anyone really care what the ancient Latin root was?

Indubitably!
 
What also makes it a huge hindrance is getting the tones right! :ack:

Here's an example:

妈 (Mother): mā
麻 (Hemp): má
马 (Horse): mǎ
骂 (Scold): mà
吗 (Question particle): ma
Yeah, that's one of the many :ack: 's of Chinese :(
 
Technologically, it would seem typing using the English 26-letter keyboard is much simpler.

What Does a Chinese Keyboard Look Like?
How they type in the PRC.

Google has launched a self-promoting Chinese-language blog, not long after unveiling its controversial Chinese search engine last month. According to the Washington Post, China already has as many as 16 million bloggers. How do you type Chinese characters on a keyboard?

You use a piece of software called an "input method editor," which allows conventional-looking keyboards to produce the thousands of characters used in written Chinese. There's no standard system, though, so two Chinese keyboards may not look exactly the same and they may not function in the same way.

In the Peoples' Republic of China, most computer users type out their Chinese in transliteration, using the standard Roman alphabet keys on a QWERTY keyboard. To generate a character, you type out its sound according to the same spelling system—called Pinyin—that represents the name of China's capital with the word "Beijing." The computer automatically converts the Pinyin spelling to the correct Chinese characters on the screen.

Or at least it's supposed to. There are lots of Chinese words that sound similar but look different on paper. If you're using the Pinyin input method, you'll have to put in some extra effort to make sure the right characters show up onscreen. First, you can follow a syllable with a digit, to indicate which of several intonations you want. If the computer still doesn't have enough information to pick a character, you'll have to choose from a pop-up list of possibilities.

The best Pinyin input methods can guess what you mean to say according to the context and by suggesting the most commonly used characters first. In this way they function a bit like the text-editing software on most cell phones. Some input methods let you set arbitrary shortcuts: If you found yourself typing out the Chinese word for blog—"bu-luo-ge"—over and over again, you could assign it to a simpler letter combination, like "b-l-g." Even with the fancy software, though, typing in Pinyin can be a drag.

Speed-typists in mainland China use another input method called Wubi. To type a character in Wubi, you don't spell out how it sounds—you punch in a sequence of keys that corresponds to what it looks like and how it's drawn. A Wubi-configured keyboard looks just like the Western version but has additional labels on each key. The QWERTY keys are divided into five regions for different types of pen strokes: left-falling, right-falling, horizontal, vertical, and hook. You "spell" a character by typing out up to four strokes, in the order in which you'd draw them on paper. (For intricate characters made of many strokes, you'd type the first three and then the last one.) If he knows what he's doing, a Wubi typist can produce up to 160 characters per minute.

Older people who aren't comfortable with typing might be more inclined to use an electronic writing tablet instead. The precise strokes of Chinese characters make them relatively easy for a computer to distinguish. Many other methods exist as well. The stroke-count system, for example, lets you type in the number of strokes required for a given character and choose the right candidate from a long list. The four-corner system lets you draw out a character by entering numbers for the graphical element in each corner: A "1" makes a horizontal stroke, a "2" is vertical or diagonal, and so on.
Link
 
160 characters a minute? That's quite fast!
 
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