What is the proper etiquette to show respect for the flag?

[IglooDame]

How about this: Following a childhood of being molested by a deranged clown called Molestro the Fagnificent, who wore red white and blue, sung the US anthem constantly and lived on 1776 America St, Bourough of United States Hill, aAmerica city, USA, North America, I see a picture of an Uncle Sam on stilts throwing the opening ball at a baseball game between the US Americos and the Sea to Shining Sea Patriots, and whisper to myself "he must be a very molestrous man", would that be disrespectful?

This reminded me: a year or so ago a local non-MLB baseball team in a nearby city (Nashua) got sold, as it was losing too much money, and the new owners renamed the team from the "Nashua Pride" to the "American Defenders of New Hampshire". I threw up a little in my mouth, the first time I heard it. Nashua New Hampshire is a pretty average American small city/large town (population just under 90K) with no particular claim to patriotism, military patronage, or the like. I remember thinking at the time that anyone cheering for the opposing team could literally be called anti-American.

The postscript is that the team couldn't pay its bills (for ballfield rental and fire/police detachments on game days) and got locked out of its home field for the remainder of this season, and probably for good. Sometimes the free market's invisible hand forms a giant fist and punches gratuitous jingoism right in the kisser.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Sounds like Liverpool Football Club to me (can't pay it's bills, bought by Americans as a way to consolidate all their debts into one easy repayment hole).

 

[Colonel]

I'm usually in uniform when I hear the national anthem so I of course salute, on the occasion I am in civilian clothes then I do the hand over heart.

 

[Lord Gay]

How about if I got an American flag tatooed on my penis, would it be obligitory for real american patriots to salute it?

Show me a pic and I'll certainly "salute".

 

[RedRalph]

Show me a pic and I'll certainly "salute".

 

[Ansar]

I liked standing up, putting my hand to my heart, and reciting the first verse of the anthem when I was in Colombia.

I wouldn't like it here in the US, though.

 

[QuoVadisNation]

Depends on the context honestly. Where I was and stuff. Ball game? I'd stand. Maybe put my hand over heart if it was the 7th game of the world series. Running for president? I'd do everything short of the Hitler salute.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Patriotism can exist without nationalism.

I fail to see the difference, and even if you could differentiate them without just resorting to something equivalent to 'patriotism good, nationalism bad', I'd still view both of them with the same contempt given my view of the whole concept of nations, not to mention their glorification. I find it sad that not only are we failing to tear down the walls between each other, but we actually celebrate the arbitrary seperation of fellow humans represented by these pathetic flags. Why should this of all things be universally and unquestionably respected?

 

[Ecofarm]

I fail to see the difference, and even if you could differentiate them without just resorting to something equivalent to 'patriotism good, nationalism bad', I'd still view both of them with the same contempt given my view of the whole concept of nations, not to mention their glorification. I find it sad that not only are we failing to tear down the walls between each other, but we actually celebrate the arbitrary seperation of fellow humans represented by these pathetic flags. Why should this of all things be universally and unquestionably respected?

Patriotism is...

When you respect the founding fathers and the ideals of your country.
When you feel that your country has something to contribute in this world.
When you take pride in the accomplishments of your country.

Nationalism is...

When you think your country is better (and more important) than everyone else.


These things are vastly different, even if both are founded in respect for one's country. What you seem to be saying is that it is wrong to take pride in or have respect for your country. As if, somehow, the imaginary lines between countries nullify the accomplishments of those countries. We can be a global community and still appreciate each geographic area's contributions and unique cultures. Whether the arts, science, military, education, sports or many other possibilities... every country has something to be patriotic about and we should not subdue the appreciation of each's contribution to our world heritage.


ps. Not all flags should be respected.

 

[Elta]

Meh, hand over heart.

Not am issue if someone just sits though.

 

[Flying Pig]

I generally see it at work, so I'm in a military uniform, so I give a salute (up-two-three-down, not the stupid hand-held-up thing that the yankees do), if not I normally salute anyway because I can't think of anyone who'll point out my error

 

[dutchfire]

Only fascist scum worships a flag.

 

[Flying Pig]

It's more like in this country we salute the Queen and symbols of her - hence officers, because they have the Queen's commission. Now the flag is her own badge, so it's a good idea to salute that too - plus it's a sign of respect, and I respect what it stands for

 

[Ecofarm]

Who worships flags? That haystack gets mounded too much. I've never known or met anyone who worships a flag or flags.

I've met people who worship all kinds of other inanimate BS, like the Koran, but never a flag.

 

[Camikaze]

Patriotism is...

When you respect the founding fathers and the ideals of your country.

On this. Why do Americans (I'm assuming you're solely referring to American patriotism) have to respect the founding fathers? I would of thought it better to be proud of the fact that there has been dramatic change since then, instead of respecting a bunch of old dudes who held both good and bad ideas.

 

[Rossiya]

Burn the flag.

 

[Flying Pig]

On this. Why do Americans (I'm assuming you're solely referring to American patriotism) have to respect the founding fathers? I would of thought it better to be proud of the fact that there has been dramatic change since then, instead of respecting a bunch of old dudes who held both good and bad ideas.

America's a conservative place. The Iron Lady would have been called a communist over there

 

[Ecofarm]

On this. Why do Americans (I'm assuming you're solely referring to American patriotism) have to respect the founding fathers? I would of thought it better to be proud of the fact that there has been dramatic change since then, instead of respecting a bunch of old dudes who held both good and bad ideas.

I'm guessing that you have no knowledge of the ideals they stood and sometimes died for. Perhaps you are not aware of what it might take to build the foundation for a superpower. In a world of theocrats, dictators and monarchs they said "no more". They were visionaries beyond their time and men of truly exceptional determination. They created a path by which we bask in the glory of freedom and equality.

Of course, I'm also proud of the dramatic improvements since then.

You think Cyrus the Great is something to be proud of for Persians, right? Well, didn't he have some bad ideas too? Or was he perfect? Are we only allowed to respect perfect people who have no bad ideas? Your standards for respect seem disingenuous. According to your logic, we should not respect them because 1. they are old and 2. they were not perfect... that seems like BS to me. Why are you BSing me?

 

[Camikaze]

You say that to be patriotic you need to be proud of the founding fathers and the ideals they stood for, like they were all good, and like you must agree with all of them. Are you meant to be proud of the perpetuation of slavery? The perpetuation of an elitist political regime? The perpetuation of female subjugation? etc. Obviously not. So instead of respect for those that 'stood and sometimes died for' these ideals, along with other excellent ones, wouldn't it be a much better qualification for patriotism to be proud of the good ideals alone, and not those that represent both good and bad? I'm not BSing you, I'm just saying that respecting a bunch of dudes who had many horrendous ideas (although many progressive views for their time), seems a bit of a stretch as the first qualification for patriotism.

 

[PiMan]

I'm guessing that you have no knowledge of the ideals they stood and sometimes died for. Perhaps you are not aware of what it might take to build the foundation for a superpower. In a world of theocrats, dictators and monarchs they said "no more". They were visionaries beyond their time and men of truly exceptional determination. They created a path by which we bask in the glory of freedom and equality.

Some of those founding fathers of yours wanted to make the 13 colonies a monarchy, some of them wanted senate seats to be something that could be inherited by their children. Sounds like they weren't much better than the representative democracy/constitutional monarchy they split from.