What is the US up to with regard to Iran?

at this point I'm all for "accelerating", because clearly radical change is the only way we'll get out of this mess. I also fully agree with you w/r/t phone calls, it extends to everything: the entire internet, television, journalism, science, even god damn handwriting. nothing short of direct face-to-face sense based encounter will be believable anymore. and we thought we had it bad with Trump and fake news, that's just the freakin avant-garde. cavalry about to roll in.

The problem with accelerating is that you can accelerate to a disaster. There are always options to be made, and paths available that should be refused. Pausing to think about it is a good idea. Propaganda is an old, old game. People get used to it, and built up immunity to it. People as a society also. But that takes time.

Developing that "immunity" comes with the danger of cynicism and detachment, sure. But ultimately people will be forced to participate in politics because they need to. So let them have their time. Let them be manipulated fools. Let them be cynics. And let them get over it. I believe that one great benefit of the modern inversion of the population pyramid is that people in that later stages of life where they think over issues, and are willing (again) to participate and rather immune to being fooled, has gained weight.

Thump's "support" is more of a f-you than real support for what is supposed to be his ideas. Many of those who voted for him knew they were electing a con man, it was just that there were no credible alternatives. I'm more worried about the effect of "fake news" in countries like Brazil than in places such as the US or Europe.
 
well , acting defence secretary Shanahan is out ; can't tell myself whether he would not survive the Congress seesion to vet him or coming from an "international" company like Boeing , he was uanable in the end to plant more mines on the Japanese tanker . But then Trump will start a "tradition" of acting secretaries , because that cuts the power of the "Elected" over the running of the State . And BSS in his yuge mind has discovered that he might know the real culprits of 9/11 . You see , maybe Iranians had spies to frame the Saudis and maybe the American public will then accept a war .
 
The problem with accelerating is that you can accelerate to a disaster. There are always options to be made, and paths available that should be refused. Pausing to think about it is a good idea. Propaganda is an old, old game. People get used to it, and built up immunity to it. People as a society also. But that takes time.

Developing that "immunity" comes with the danger of cynicism and detachment, sure. But ultimately people will be forced to participate in politics because they need to. So let them have their time. Let them be manipulated fools. Let them be cynics. And let them get over it. I believe that one great benefit of the modern inversion of the population pyramid is that people in that later stages of life where they think over issues, and are willing (again) to participate and rather immune to being fooled, has gained weight.

Thump's "support" is more of a f-you than real support for what is supposed to be his ideas. Many of those who voted for him knew they were electing a con man, it was just that there were no credible alternatives. I'm more worried about the effect of "fake news" in countries like Brazil than in places such as the US or Europe.

just to clarify: I am all for societal acceleration, but industrial and technological deceleration. I think that much is obvious from my posts, with how much I focus on the environment and my fear of technology and so forth. I do agree with you, in fact I will go farther: acceleration neccessarily leads to disaster. in this case a social disaster. Baudrillard has identified the "death of the social" (easy to misunderstand, hard to understand concept) in the 80s, but I think it's only now becoming more and more obvious with Twitter activism, capitalist-funded identity politics, lack of participation in politics and grassroots movements and so forth. So in a way I think we are saying similiar things. Quoting you: "ultimately people will be forced to participate [...] because they need to". Fully agreed. It's just that I think the societal apocalypse has long happened, we just didn't notice it. The crucial moment was not the death of the social or the erosion of truth, it will be our awakening, our resistance against precisely those phenomena. I also do agree that people build up a sort of sixth sense for propaganda. But in that regard we also have to acknowledge that "propaganda" itself is evolving at a rapid pace, which means we might not even be able to keep up with it. Psychological mechanisms of control have become so effective in that they have become voluntary:

we voluntarily use the services of facebook, google and amazon. we are the authors of being controlled: we let corporations know where we are at all times, what is on our mind, what are our desires, who we talk to and for how long, what websites we visit, what questions we ask ourselves, what products we like and dislike, and, through our patterns, many, many more things can be deduced.

even those people that try to flee the society of control are hopeless. the golden state killer was caught because of DNA, but he had never ever submitted his. what happened? well, a few of his distant relatives sent a DNA sample to 23andme. that's literally all it took. two or three stupid relatives of yours want to know about their """ancestry""" and suddenly the police can identify your DNA everywhere. passengers now routinely have their face scanned at airports without even being asked to consent. there are millions of other examples, but I think I drove home my point.

I also agree with your point on Trump, I think a lot of people willingly voted for a con-man, because they saw it as a big middle finger to the opposite team. I, however, heavily disagree with your point about the "inversion of the population pyramid". It is only very, very few older folks like you and Hrothbern who are actively interested in politics and who haven't already decided their opinion decades ago. I don't think people think more about those issues in later stages of their life, they think less about them. I don't think they're more willing to participate, I think they're more likely to, and have a vested interest in, not changing a damn thing :lol:
 
Are Trump and Pompeo really trying to tie 9/11 to Iran? They do know Al Qaeda is Sunni and Iran is Shia right? Thatd be dumber than trying to lump Catholics and Protestants together during the reformation.

I know Americans are not the most educated people but FFS we aren't really that stupid are we?
 
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Are Trump and Pompeo really trying to tie 9/11 to Iran? They do know Al Qaeda is Sunni and Iran I'd Shia right? Thatd be dumber than trying to lump Catholics and Protestants together during the reformation.

I know Americans are not the most educated people but FFS we aren't really that stupid are we?

Breaking news from the Onion; the latest is that Iran was behind the attack on Nancy Kerrigan.
 
Are Trump and Pompeo really trying to tie 9/11 to Iran? They do know Al Qaeda is Sunni and Iran is Shia right? Thatd be dumber than trying to lump Catholics and Protestants together during the reformation.

I know Americans are not the most educated people but FFS we aren't really that stupid are we?

brown people bad :( orange man good!
 
brown people bad :( orange man good!
Sadly very close. American conservatives seem to believe all muslims are in a united front against the west. South American refugees belong in concentration camps. Ooh, almost forgot the disenfranchisement of African Americans....unless you're Diamond and Silk, Kanye West or Candace Owens of course.
 
Its not just the usual suspects who are worried and puzzled by current US actions towards Iran.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/edit...ould-be-a-disaster/ar-AABrwha?ocid=spartandhp

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...aq-says-top-british-officer-in-defiance-of-us

Help me understand what the Trump administration thinks it can achieve.
An extension of The Great Game?
To block Russia and China from getting warm water ports/ easy access into the Indian Ocean?
If so, it is not going to work in the long run (IMO).
 
Iran shot down an American drone.

At first it may seen minor news but it was a Global Hawk none less. Huge, packed with hi-tech surveillance stuff and about the same price as a F-22. Point for Iran.
 
Iran shot down an American drone.

At first it may seen minor news but it was a Global Hawk none less. Huge, packed with hi-tech surveillance stuff and about the same price as a F-22. Point for Iran.

How many schools could that have built and then maybe our people wouldn’t be so stupid as to let Iran shoot this down.
 
It's a technology demonstration.
Iran seems to have been developing advanced air defense capabilities last several years, after acquiring S-300 they made their own similar system.
The drone was shot down by Iranian version of the Buk SAM, according to their claims.

NBC report
 
Does the USA not shoot down foreign drones in its airspace? I heard this on the news, but to me it's as Red Elk says, the only thing that was somewhat surprising was that Iran actually did shoot it down successfully. That's not something I've heard about much in the past.
 
rockets are no rocket science anymore... just high tech
 
Both sides on this are playing high stakes. Iran's government must call off the US's bluff quickly or suffer considerable economic damage and internal instability as a result. The US has a president who went along with warmongers on this issue and is in a tight stop to back off: either lose the only support he managed to find in Washington (israeli and arab lobbies and the neocon warmongers), or start a war and lose the next election.

rockets are no rocket science anymore... just high tech

Shows what a medium sized country can do, even despite severe embargoes.
 
It will be difficult for US to let it slide without response. And response may cause further escalation even if both parties don't want it.
Trump already said he doesn't believe the shotdown was intentional. Sounds a bit funny, like Iranian missile accidentally bumped into a stealth drone, because radar didn't see it.
Though I think it's clear what he meant.
 
I think it was deliberate. A showdown (even of only political, we'll see) seemed inescapable, better get it over with and move from there.
 
It will be difficult for US to let it slide without response. And response may cause further escalation even if both parties don't want it.
Trump already said he doesn't believe the shotdown was intentional. Sounds a bit funny, like Iranian missile accidentally bumped into a stealth drone, because radar didn't see it.
Though I think it's clear what he meant.
I can't seem to find the article, but I read a couple years ago about how Iran and Russia have been investing heavily in some specialized radar that due to the wavelength used/ how it is processed is able to reduce many of the advantages that stealth coating and design provides.
 
There was something about passive radars, analyzing reflected signals from existing cellular network, don't remember details.
And there were reports in media about cooperation in electronic warfare. Though I doubt that helping Iran make too much progress in these fields is in Russia's interests.
 
It will be difficult for US to let it slide without response. And response may cause further escalation even if both parties don't want it.
Trump already said he doesn't believe the shotdown was intentional. Sounds a bit funny, like Iranian missile accidentally bumped into a stealth drone, because radar didn't see it.
Though I think it's clear what he meant.

Nothing like a new war to help Trump get re-elected
The US sanctions are already hurting Iran, realisticly it dosnt need to do anything other then keep the blockaid going but Trump will likely demand an airstrike, maybe blow up an Iran fighters on the ground just to show that it can
 
Does the USA not shoot down foreign drones in its airspace?

This drone wasn't in Iranian airspace, it was flying over international waters. That makes this a direct provocation from Iran.
 
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