What is the US up to with regard to Iran?

Avoiding being plain stupid does not mean at all that you are moderate.

W may well have ordered a war already.
Trump is obviously a bad president, yet I think regarding actually declaring/going to war he isn't as bad as many before him. Of course he is ruinous in enabling all kinds of war and war-crimes, eg Saudi and Israeldi.

In other words, just because overall he is a terrible potus, it doesn't mean nothing he ever does should be said to be better than what might have been done by another potus.
Of course a serious potus wouldn't have escalated things to this point in the first place, but 'Merica.
 
The JCPOA was doing its job - providing sanctions relief and a framework for IAEA inspection to satisfy the P5+1 that Iran was not stockpiling materials for nuclear weapons and their nuclear program was consistent with a civilian nuclear program. The US security services and the security services of the other members of the P5+1 were in agreement that Iran was not pursuing a military nuclear program and were cooperating with the IAEA. Even now, Iran has stated -and the IAEA has not stated contrary- that they are still in compliance with the agreement but should sanctions not be lifted they would be in breach of the limits of the amount/enrichment level of uranium under the JCPOA. (Please note that even if Iran breaches the level, they would still be well away from 'rush capacity' for a nuclear weapon. That was one of the big sticking points in the JCPOA - where exactly the 'rush capacity' for a nuclear weapon was.)
I trust what officials in the US, IAEA, and Iran itself say about Iran's compliance just as much as I trusted them with regard to Kim Jong Il's compliance during the 90s and 00s. On the outside we have no real idea at all. Iran gets a bimonthly inspection of their existing military sites, everyone involved has particular, easily surmised motivations to say that they are compliant, and so it goes. And this is supposedly sufficient to verify that they are not developing nuclear weapons. Not that we should trust the Israeli intel people more than the rest, but they presented a huge surveillance data dump in 2018 to the effect that Iran had been flagrantly violating the deal.

While these hamfisted inspections are going on, our own government conducts a two year investigation of Trump with every possible level of media support and assistance, and are unable to find that Trump colluded with the Russians. Yet people still just know the silver bullet is out there. Such selective cynicism.

The most LOL part of what transpired during this Iran deal was the obsession of Iran, which sits on fossil fuel reserves that would be effectively unlimited for their own needs, with contracting with the Russians for nuclear power plants. Gosh, that's such admirable common sense and obviously not suspicious at all and could not possibly have an ulterior purpose.

There are factions in the Iranian government that might be happy with a war but there are factions that just want normalized relations.The Iran deal wasn't particularly strong but it did bolster the non-aggressive factions in their government. They were able to go back to their people and say, "see? The West can be worked with. We can now rebuild our economy."
I can understand that, but I'm afraid to say that Trump has sold me most of the way on the idea that "normalized relations" was basically the US being screwed logistically and/or financially, with the Iran deal being one of the most decadent examples.

OTOH, one thing I haven't been sold on, and never will be, is the efficacy of sanctions. Their unintended effects more than offset the leverage Washington thinks it's getting. It's just another example of how stupid the State Department really has been, for years and years. And you guys like their deal. It's cracked.

The deal was made. Doesn't matter what we think about it retroactively. Tearing it up makes a pact with the U.S. as fickle as our elections. It doesn't matter if some people think it was weak, it was better than what we have now. What we have now is a situation where we're very likely to waste trillions and thousands upon thousands of lives on another war that even if we win won't benefit the American people and won't make them one iota safer.

The deal wasn't made, though. The US did not make the deal. Obama's administration did. The constitution requires treaties to go through Congress, one effect of which is prevent exactly what you have complained about here: the fickleness of elections, because it is much harder to repeal laws than it is to just stop upholding your predecessor's unauthorized deals. Another effect of this stricture is to prevent the US from making these bad deals. The Iran deal would not have gotten through the Senate. If it were good but the Republicans held out on it, McCain would have assembled another Gang of 8 and gotten it through, but he didn't. Because it was a bad deal.
 
If it were good but the Republicans held out on it, McCain would have assembled another Gang of 8 and gotten it through, but he didn't. Because it was a bad deal.

Are we talking about dementia-plagued late warmonger McCain?
He seemed to want to go to war against all enemies of Israel or whatever.
 
Avoiding being plain stupid does not mean at all that you are moderate.

I didn't say he was moderate, not that I'd argue otherwise with the drone downing. I said "before they arrived on the scene Trump had to play both the good cop and the bad cop, they took over the bad cop role allowing Trump to be the voice of moderation".

That was in reference to my earlier comment about Trump being chaos and just about anyone would have a calming effect on him. With no one playing the bad cop because of all the 'adults in the room' Trump had to be both by talking tough one day and nicey nicey the next. With Bolton and Pompeo playing the bad cops Trump becomes the voice of moderation.
 
I didn't say he was moderate, not that I'd argue otherwise with the drone downing. I said "before they arrived on the scene Trump had to play both the good cop and the bad cop, they took over the bad cop role allowing Trump to be the voice of moderation".

That was in reference to my earlier comment about Trump being chaos and just about anyone would have a calming effect on him. With no one playing the bad cop because of all the 'adults in the room' Trump had to be both by talking tough one day and nicey nicey the next. With Bolton and Pompeo playing the bad cops Trump becomes the voice of moderation.

ok
He becomes that voice.

I would also describe Trump as mainly chaotic
chaotic means the absence of order of structure

What is the English word for the absence of morals ?
 
Perhaps not entirely.
Lack of empathy, egoism and narcissism are common signs of psychopathy, as far as I know.

I agree
I see him also as a kind of psychopath
But just want to get it more sharp in separate words, without using a "catch all" that means different things for many people

I was thinking on asocial
but I don't know if that only relates to wider social groups
and not to your child or neighbor etc
 
He turned the attack down because 1 drone wasn't worth 150 people even if they (some, most) were responsible.

First of all he needed some argument
and this was imo just a convenient PR argument
 
About lack of empathy, I was replying to your question. Not sure if it can be applied to Trump. Narcissism probably yes, though.

well yes
narcissism is there and if at the exclusion of anybody else... bingo !

chaotic amoral narcissistic.
 
I trust what officials in the US, IAEA, and Iran itself say about Iran's compliance just as much as I trusted them with regard to Kim Jong Il's compliance during the 90s and 00s. On the outside we have no real idea at all. Iran gets a bimonthly inspection of their existing military sites, everyone involved has particular, easily surmised motivations to say that they are compliant, and so it goes. And this is supposedly sufficient to verify that they are not developing nuclear weapons. Not that we should trust the Israeli intel people more than the rest, but they presented a huge surveillance data dump in 2018 to the effect that Iran had been flagrantly violating the deal.

While these hamfisted inspections are going on, our own government conducts a two year investigation of Trump with every possible level of media support and assistance, and are unable to find that Trump colluded with the Russians. Yet people still just know the silver bullet is out there. Such selective cynicism.

The most LOL part of what transpired during this Iran deal was the obsession of Iran, which sits on fossil fuel reserves that would be effectively unlimited for their own needs, with contracting with the Russians for nuclear power plants. Gosh, that's such admirable common sense and obviously not suspicious at all and could not possibly have an ulterior purpose.

I can understand that, but I'm afraid to say that Trump has sold me most of the way on the idea that "normalized relations" was basically the US being screwed logistically and/or financially, with the Iran deal being one of the most decadent examples.

OTOH, one thing I haven't been sold on, and never will be, is the efficacy of sanctions. Their unintended effects more than offset the leverage Washington thinks it's getting. It's just another example of how stupid the State Department really has been, for years and years. And you guys like their deal. It's cracked.

The deal wasn't made, though. The US did not make the deal. Obama's administration did. The constitution requires treaties to go through Congress, one effect of which is prevent exactly what you have complained about here: the fickleness of elections, because it is much harder to repeal laws than it is to just stop upholding your predecessor's unauthorized deals. Another effect of this stricture is to prevent the US from making these bad deals. The Iran deal would not have gotten through the Senate. If it were good but the Republicans held out on it, McCain would have assembled another Gang of 8 and gotten it through, but he didn't. Because it was a bad deal.

Isreal can carry out the airstrike on Iran ? Or maybe SaudiArabia ?
Meanwhile Our Russian Friends are selling nuclear reactors to other third world countries in the middle east as well. Not one peep about Ivan ?

Iam sure that the cracking of the Iran deal had nothing to do with Trump and hes gaslighting, Probably wondering why the West isnt jumping to support Trump now on Iran after starting several trade wars and slapping our allies in the face.
Strutting around crapping over everything while putting the blame on everyone else.
 
Does it violate any laws or treaties?

Well now Estonia and Poland is asking for Nuclear power plants, because Belarus is getting one. Problem ?
Look at how Ukraine is storing its nuclear waste, runs its nuclear power plants, and Chernobyl. Right now Ukraine is running some very old reactors currently like some are 30 years old already which is the operating life of a soviet reactor. Worse is its tech is being sold on the black market because it is so cash strapped. Then there are as mentioned the geopolitical problems caused as neighboring countries become alarmed and enter a nuclear tech race.
 
I trust what officials in the US, IAEA, and Iran itself say about Iran's compliance just as much as I trusted them with regard to Kim Jong Il's compliance during the 90s and 00s. On the outside we have no real idea at all. Iran gets a bimonthly inspection of their existing military sites, everyone involved has particular, easily surmised motivations to say that they are compliant, and so it goes. And this is supposedly sufficient to verify that they are not developing nuclear weapons. Not that we should trust the Israeli intel people more than the rest, but they presented a huge surveillance data dump in 2018 to the effect that Iran had been flagrantly violating the deal.
Here is the link to all of the IAEA reports submitted to the Secretary General pursuant to UNSCR 2231 since monitoring began.
https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/iran/iaea-and-iran-iaea-reports
Since you clearly have extensive knowledge the Iranian nuclear program, I would appreciate you tell me where the IAEA is incorrect or their inspection lacked sufficient rigor.
With regards to the document released in 2018 by Netanyahu, absolutely nothing new was in the documents. All that Netanyahu said was what the various security services already knew - that in the 2000s Iran had an active nuclear weapon program and that they lied about it. Everybody knew Iran had a nuclear weapon program in the same way everybody knows Trump had sex with Stormy Daniels. Plus, the fact Iran was known to have a secret nuclear weapons program is exactly the reason the JCPOA was needed.
BBC said:
So what did Mr Netanyahu actually tell us?

It was in large part a reminder that Iran, despite all its denials, did have elements of a nuclear weapons programme and that it retains the scientific know-how to reactivate such a programme if it ever wanted to.
That of course is not news to the major powers who signed up to the nuclear deal with Iran. Indeed, it was why they sought a nuclear agreement with Tehran in the first place.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43963677
EU High Representative Federica Mogherini said:
First of all, it can only be a preliminary reaction, because, obviously, we need to assess the details of the statement Prime Minister [of Israel, Benjamin] Netanyahu has made, look at the documents, and first and foremost get the IAEA [International Atomic Energy Agency]'s assessment, because the IAEA is the only impartial, international organisation that is in charge of monitoring Iran's nuclear commitments.

What I have seen from the first reports is that Prime Minister Netanyahu has not put into question Iran's compliance with the JCPOA [Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action] commitments, meaning post-2015 nuclear commitments.

The JCPOA, the nuclear agreement, is not based on assumptions of good faith or trust - it is based on concrete commitments, verification mechanisms and a very strict monitoring of facts, done by the IAEA. The IAEA has published 10 reports, certifying that Iran has fully complied with its commitments.

And in any case, if any party and if any country has information of non-compliance, of any kind, it can and should address and channel this information to the proper, legitimate, recognised mechanisms, the IAEA and the Joint Commission [of the JCPOA] for the monitoring of the nuclear deal that I chair and that I convened just a couple of months ago. We have mechanisms in place to address eventual concerns.

Again, I have not seen from Prime Minister Netanyahu arguments for the moment on non-compliance, meaning violation by Iran of its nuclear commitments under the [nuclear] deal. And again, the deal was put in place exactly because there was no trust between the parties, otherwise we would not have required a nuclear deal to be put in place.
https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters...garding-israeli-prime-minister-netanyahu’s_en
Plus, if we are going to trust intelligence estimates from the Mossad, let's get it from the Mossad itself instead of filtered through Netanyahu's ridiculous posturing.
Mossad contradicted Netanyahu on Iran nuclear programme said:
A secret cable obtained by Al Jazeera's Investigative Unit reveals that Mossad sent a top-secret cable to South Africa on October 22, 2012, that laid out a "bottom line" assessment of Iran's nuclear work.

It appears to contradict the picture painted by Netanyahu of Tehran racing towards acquisition of a nuclear bomb.

Writing that Iran had not begun the work needed to build any kind of nuclear weapon, the Mossad cable said the Islamic Republic's scientists are "working to close gaps in areas that appear legitimate such as enrichment reactors".
...
That view tracks with the 2012 US National Intelligence estimate, which found no evidence that Iran had thus far taken a decision to use its nuclear infrastructure to build a weapon, or that it had revived efforts to research warhead design that the US said had been shelved in 2003.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015...iran-nuclear-speech-2012-150218165622065.html

At the end of the day, all major intelligence agencies and the IAEA have confirmed that Iran is complying with the inspection regime and requirements of the JCPOA, though there are areas where Iran could do a better job with compliance - which is to be expected. Nobody denies that the JCPOA has issues. However, simply blowing up JCPOA and replacing it with a policy notable for its lack of success is a terrible idea all around.

(Plus, there is the darkly ironic aspect to this as Israel acquired their nuclear weapons through a secret nuclear weapons program masquerading as a civilian program and engaged in covert nuclear explosion testing with South Africa.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_Incident#Subsequent_developments

While these hamfisted inspections are going on, our own government conducts a two year investigation of Trump with every possible level of media support and assistance, and are unable to find that Trump colluded with the Russians. Yet people still just know the silver bullet is out there. Such selective cynicism.
Wait, what does IAEA inspection of the Iranian nuclear program have to do with oversight investigations of the Trump administration carried out by a special counsel and congressional committees?
 
Back
Top Bottom