In our media it's greatest threat ever or useless junk. I suspect it's good.
Russian tanks and planes usually have a bad rep, artillery systems, explosives, anti tank weapons and missiles usually have a good rep.
So the Houthi's in Yemen are saying they did it, the US and Saudi's are saying that the flying vehicles did not come from Yemen. The Houthi's hoofing it across the arabian desert with drones on their backs does make them both telling the truth, amazingly enough.
I was going to say that also. There has been a boom in small companies producing such material relatively cheap. It's gone outside the control of states and "defense" industry. Large motors are technically hard to manufacture for reliable, long.-term operation. Small, disposable ones seem to be much easier.
I don't know. Once you get in range, the drones are obviously easier, but that would require smuggling drones and explosives over a distance in hostile territory. If you get that close, you might as well just use an RPG, a mortar or something similar. Drones only start making sense once you are outside of video link range, so you are going to need some kind of guidance package, anyway
It's not completely hostile territory. The saudi regime has been been oppressing most of the population in that area of Saudi Arabia. No love lost for the clown prince and his family there. They must have their valuable real estate well guarded but controlled perimeters probably don't extend more that some tens of kilometers.
Well, the border between S.A and Yemen was a point of contention and outside of the coast it basically doesn't exist. The whole empty quarter is nearly terra nullus de facto.
The empty quarter may be a tad difficult even for arabs to cross?
The area immediately north of Yemen along the Red sea used to be part of Yemen but was annexed by Saudi Arabia back in the 1930s. Yemen maintains a claim on it. Whether they maintain sympathies among its remaining population I do not know. But it would not be relevant for this particular event.
It does take a special kind of clown to start a war with Yemen that could never possibly bring any gain to SA, and could (did) worsen a series existing problems it had. Given how stupid its ruler has proven to be already, starting a war with Iran is not out of question...
I'm confused by the president's tweet. More so than normal, I mean. Is he implying that the United States has some type of obligation toward Saudi Arabia?
I should never forget how naive I am. And also I am intensely jealous of people who can speak Trumpese. Honestly, I had no idea that I really completely didn't understand what Trump was tweeting.
"I think that 'locked and loaded' is a broad term and talks about the realities that we're all far safer and more secure domestically from energy independence," said Vice President Mike Pence's chief of staff Marc Short on Monday morning.
Is this confusing? It tells you exactly who I am It was drawn by a Russian ansi artist who is a great fontist. He drew my name out of nowhere and I love what he did so I'm using it This is offtopic tho so *runs away*
Well, the border between S.A and Yemen was a point of contention and outside of the coast it basically doesn't exist. The whole empty quarter is nearly terra nullus de facto. Houthi Yemen has been hitting S.A for years now and if the drones have jet engines then their range would be greatly extended, allowing attacks from Yemen to become more and more plausible?
Of course Iran probably has some technicians on the ground helping them do this but that's just to be expected.
All things equal, adding jets would decrease the range of the drones - particularly if they are turbojets (instead of turbofans) as uppi's link suggested. You'd have to do a lot more modifications than just slapping on jet engines to increase the range of the drone.
Saudi oil attacks: Drones and missiles launched from Iran - US
The US has reportedly identified locations in Iran from which drones and cruise missiles were launched against major Saudi oil facilities on Saturday.
A senior US official told CBS News that the locations were in southern Iran, at the northern end of the Gulf.
Saudi air defences did not stop the drones and missiles because they were pointed southwards, to prevent attacks from Yemen, the official added.
Iran denies involvement in the attacks, which disrupted global oil supplies.
Interesting reference about Saudi air defense "pointed" southwards. Does it mean radars or Patriot SAM feature that it has to be pointed to the launch direction?
Another reason to buy S-400 which is vertically mounted and covers all directions
Interesting reference about Saudi air defense "pointed" southwards. Does it mean radars or Patriot SAM feature that it has to be pointed to the launch direction?
Interesting reference about Saudi air defense "pointed" southwards. Does it mean radars or Patriot SAM feature that it has to be pointed to the launch direction?
Another reason to buy S-400 which is vertically mounted and covers all directions
It is the radars. I expect the SAMs to be able to turn around after being fired, otherwise they would be bad at intercepting anything. But the Patriot radar can only scan a 90 degree sector, so you need to point it into a direction and you won't notice anything coming from behind. Ideally, you would want at least 4 radars pointed in 4 different directions to defend one point. But if you expect the attack coming from a certain direction, you have a lot of ground to cover and only so many radars, there is an argument for neglecting the sectors from which you expect no attack.
The main radar of the S-400 has a dual-sided antenna, so it can cover the front and back. I don't know the angle it can cover, but it should still be blind to attacks coming from the side (simply because of physics).
What seems doubtful is that Saudis considered Iranian direction as low priority for SAM coverage. And with their military budget, they shouldn't be short of radars or SAMs.
You can buy premium version which is able to track 20 additional targets, with 10% discount. And if you call today, you get a package of long range missiles for free!
What seems doubtful is that Saudis considered Iranian direction as low priority for SAM coverage. And with their military budget, they shouldn't be short of radars or SAMs.
You can buy premium version which is able to track 20 additional targets, with 10% discount. And if you call today, you get a package of long range missiles for free!
For this missile to have come from Southern Iran, it would have to fly over or very close to Doha, Bahrain and/or Dammam (a Saudi city of ~1M) (Google maps). I think it would have been on some radars.
The US picked up the Japanese planes before Pearl Harbor and had had various intelligence warnings about the potential for an attack and yet still dropped the ball massively. They even sank Japanese subs around the Harbor in the days leading up to the attack!
But yeah, it's really strange they wouldn't cover Iran with radar although there's some precedent. US and Soviet anti-ICBM radars tend to all face north (as the missiles would come over the North Pole) and part of why the US objected so strenuously to the FOBS (fractional orbital bombardment system - an orbital deployment of nukes) was that it would have completely evaded American radars as it wouldn't necessarily come from the north.
silly me ! ı should have re-read my post to make sure ı was claiming responsibility so that it would reach a new level of awkwardness as Trump declares he has never promised to protect Saudi Arabia , (despite the White Homey press briefing where Prince Mega BS was laughing out like loudly at the placards showing what America was selling to the Saudis , like with an F-18 picture on it . Not 15 , because America has given people you don't know a chance to be happy where USN still keeps buying subpar Hornet , you know trade issues and you know as if F-110 has not been getting the most out of the latest F-15E exports and the whole lot , because that engine company knows people around .)
russians are offering S-400s , and their biological warfare lab goes up in some town in Siberia ı had never heard of , so ı really don't think that works as proof that S-400 ain't no that cool . Let's hole the onions up in Kremlin , this way everybody will see . And how cool , if Saudis loose their export stuff , Russia loses it exports of germs and the like .
seems the accuracy or whatever and they took aim at numbers at those domes so that each and every hole looks like at the same spot ? Well , some oil expert said the hits were specific and they destroyed just about 50 % of the domes in question , hence the world supply is not at risk . Then , as the fields of expertise are like different , New Turkey had naturally former A-K-P MPs , one of which said it was naturally treason .
america wants to fight Iran , that's why they claim Southern Iran as the launch location for cruise missiles . In case it doesn't work out it will be drones launched from Southern Iraq . Because , you know Trump and he claimed Iranians were begging to meet him , to ceaseless rejection of such claims by Iranians and now he says he won't meet the Iranian President in the UN , that's like why he has eaten lock and loaded .
playing Civ III again , with the new keyboard . The Mod Awakens scenario , playing New Republic and at war with Tarkin's sector , Naboo and the Bothans ... Would like to blame the Stuntwoman , but failed to come with a good one , so ı also started reading a book where Israel bombs the "Sun" , Osirak 1981 raid . In which Spector's missed bomb blocks a warehouse so that it can not be evacuated or whatever , while Begin claims they just knocked out the bomb making facility 40 meters down . That being a standart French design now that Dimona had the same . Which was first corrected to 4 meters underground and then forgotten alltogether . American author claims this was a slip of the tongue , and see , Spector's second miss of a Mk 84 , that 4000 pounds of iron (delivered so low that the first miss had no time to arm its fuse for explosion) does a twice over GBU-28 job . Miracles happen a lot in the Middle East .
today's post will be about the notional 15 years old boys , one or two of whom might or might not exist . You know , those who might wrongly feel this was an alien attack , aliens exist and yours idiotly is the Aliens' man on earth , friend , point , whatever .
am an Admiral of the Starfleet , my word is the law on this , there is no record of alien contact in history . Which means we haven't seen any aliens around (now upto around 2 000 lightyears of this planet in places) and we don't know of anyone ever meeting Extraterrestials -before there was a Starfleet . Don't give me Men In Black , ı commanded a battalion of them for a while . This is of course required by news or claims that USN "confesses" about the existance of Aliens , me inferring that they are not required to give full access to their stock of footage of stuff , even in case Aliens were real . Such convulated sentences , ı know , but even Trump is reported as declaring in June 2019 that the UFO encounters of USN were on the rise . CFC will remember , but for the benefit of 15 years olds let me explain : In 2017 footage appeared that claimed to show unidentied blobs of light recorded by USN fighters in 2004 . They are "fakes" as much as any Star Wars movie , done by CGI . To prove America is bigger , mightier than anyone .
why ? Russia showing signs of revival (currently to much dismay of mine) , China debuting one stealth plane by year . Stealth , my dear 15 years olds , was supposed to be this field of expertise America would never be challenged . America was the best , America knew everything before anyone else , America would remain 20 years ahead of anyone . That 20 years of lead was really said on the webforums . Stealth gives America the right to bomb us all , because we are mere monkeys when compared to Americans -who have developed Stealth . When the Chinese debut Stealth Fighters , circa 1998 level of aerodynamics and like entry level 2008 of radar absorbing materials , America has to do something , like showing it can detect Stealth . See , if an F-18E/F can track an Alien spaceship , UFO , blob of light , whatever on FLIR pod of theirs , it surely can track Chinese planes . Hence the Chinese do not have the right to bomb Americans , because of the Chinese development of Stealth . See , how simple .
and here's the catch . American warplanes are unarmed , training off Hawaii so they can not prove American superiority and they can not shoot down the UFO . The Iranian version on the other hand is "better" . They officially let it "written" on aviation magazine in 2013 that an UFO was on reconnaissance over the nuclear reactor in Busherh back in 2006 and an Iranian F-14 intercepted it and it crashed . This is a thing that just makes Mach 10 , if you are to believe Iranians and it can jam electronics and make you crash . The real thing seems to be that some jerk in the Iranian Republican Guards fired a SAM and accidentally downed the plane . As both sides were engaging a very subsonic American drone .
when something happens and it's amazing it doesn't have to be that amazing . Things happen . And this is really relevant , because when one talks of his/her infallible existance and something goes wrong , the natural outcome is amazing explanations .
and while CFC members might loathe it , one has to explain . Now that if there are some who suspect it's them Aliens and r16 did it , there's going to be the reaction -ı don't know- perhaps things happen 180 degrees off what ı claim they will be . Entirely opposite , if ı say it it will be total sunshine , you would really need an umbrella because it will rain all day long . That 180 degrees thing , my dear 15 years olds , was actually coined by loser commies to define A-K-P and New Turkey . As an example , just remember that Pastor Brunson case . PM very clearly said in plain Turkish that the guy in question was guilty , it was the right thing to keep him in jail and as long as he [the PM] was alive , the Pastor would never be released . The Pastor was released , when the exchange ratio went above 7 liras to the dollar . Loser commies love to remind the PM is still alive .
as ı was writing , the radio starts on the US declarations . Says , these "objects" are a threat to those unarmed American fliers ! Then the Turkish UFO expert lays his BS on and on , says no earthly power can stop the revelation of the ET "fact" . Oh-kay , these UFO come from Andromeda and play with lights and abnormal moves and teleporting around . Because , wait , wait , he is saying 2 or 3% of our DNA is not rubbish , while patently being of no use today ! And it will be useful when ETs come , when we rise out of this primitive ape state or whatever ! 18:35 local time ! Oh-kay , if ı arrive all the way from Andromeda and want primitive apelings of Earth to rise up from their misery , do ı play silly games with Americans ? This is how it would happen . Get your T-65 , find some American planes , get them close to them , now that they wouldn't see you coming and say Boo . He or she will be like drooling , but he/she is far too old , beyond saving . Hell , the guy doesn't let me to write ... 18:42 , turns out he met Trump back in 1996 on a business deal or whatever and Trump was believer back then , with a lot of his friends being bonafide Trekkers , despite his June 2019 claims that he is not a believer ... Oh my , there might be negatives up in heavens , but there must be positives , too . Even a Confederation of good beings that will defeat the negatives , you know , who caused this thread with attacking some Japanese ship with stuff which were described as pizza delivery drones ... See , dear 15 years olds , nothing to be worried about ...
where was ı ? Heh , buzzing American planes in a T-65 . So , what next ? Go buzz White House of course , so that nobody will be able to deny it . Everybody will see Aliens exist and the Human as a race has to mend its ways , hug the tree , love thy neighbour , sing Kumbaya or whatever that is . See , this little Farsi escapade is having some huge impact . Dear 15 years olds , the Islamist narrative in this country teaches the Republic was a betrayal of Islam . After the experience of so many years of A-K-P , quite a few might have their doubts , but there are descendants of those who emigrated from Selanik , they are secret Jews and they serve the interests of the West . Then , you know , rather strangely , the West has chosen to empower the "Muslims" ...
dear 15 years olds , this was before your time but there was this guy Ecevit in charge , there was some economic crisis and Kemal Derviş was imported from the World Bank to fix the country . Everybody knew he was America's man , his every wish would be realised . So , one day Derviş decided he would start a party , just like that . "Muslims" will of course blame the Congregation on how the country learned the Ecevit was an egoist with no principles except retaining power and at 90 he was trying to rule the country while wearing a diaper . The new Leftist party was declared and everybody was waiting for Derviş to return from the US , taking his marching orders from White House and the Zionist cabal , about which people have heard of all kinds of stuff . Derviş didn't return , a Minister in the Turkish Goverment of the day went missing for 45 days or something . Really , nobody could reach him . Total disgrace for the Left while the Center Right was broken by long years of scandals and the "Young Party" of a businessman who took 6% , which was enough to force ranking Right parties below 10% of the total voters in the country . If you managed 9.9% , you wouldn't get any seats in the Parliament . You still following , my dear 15 years olds ? Know but do not discuss kind of thing .
every move of New Turkey was justified by a claim that it was breaking the power of the closet Jews , the descendants of those from Selanik . Every move was for the benefit of Islam , the oppressed peoples of the world . And against Zionist designs . The West would try to stop New Turkey and was always defeated . Time after time ; dollar reaching 7.40 or something does not count . All according to some master plan , concocted in Washington DC . A midpoint of which was to be the border changes . New Turkey would replace Turkey , would gain territory , including Halep but also lose territory , including Diyarbakır . This is just about all of what you need to know about the war in Syria . New Turkey needs conquest , needs more Arab citizens so that the Republic of 1923 will be visibly destroyed , buried in the garbage can of history . This is related to this almost 1000 years of Christian lunacy , which has been tempered with 1492 , now that everybody in this lunacy hates the Jews because they were the "tribe" God's Religion was first Given (at the keenest level) and we Turks are almost hated as much , because the Jews always had it easy under Turkish rule ...
new Turkey hasn't done much . They certainly failed to pray at the Emevi Camii / Umeyyad Mosque in Damascus , as conquerors . After so many years of bloodshed Iran has won or something , they need New Turkey out of Syria and why , Putin loves Iran more . Now that Iran can be painful for America so that America will be distracted while the little dictator of Russia robs this country bone dry . With the precision much evident and Hutis now talking of civilian attacks on Abu Dhabi / Dubai with Putin reciting a Verse from the Kuran on how all Muslims should make peace with each other and Ruhani of Iran talking of the Adana treaty which forces Turkey and Syria to act jointly against "Terror" , the PM can not accept that he has been told to his face that New Turkey can no longer support the Irresuction without suffering the heat . Neither he can remain aloof of the Verse from the Kuran . So , he blames the Saudis for bombing Yemen , and like we regularly fail to hear what New Turkey has done for the Yemenis . And Putin being the salesman he is , offers S-400 to the Saudis , neatly covering the Iranian threat that whatever hit the refineries can also locate the PM's palace in Ankara . Saudis had Patriots , that's why they failed -Putin tells the PM .
typical r16 garbage ? ı am not done yet . Trump is the biggest , Trump is the meanest . Why , he can doom Iran with a single phone call , but now he has UFOs to deal with , at the end of the day . Hussein , Obama ı mean , worked with the PM to the end . Trump is egoist , he wants total commitment so he is more amenable to American observations that the PM polarizes the 48% so much that the American plans get stuck , a more "positive" New Turkey will once again "deceive" the country , the Turks , whatever . There's this debate going on about the level of disorganization of the A-K-P with people resigning to join the new A-K-Ps forming . America does not want New Turkey crash so that it will be on its way to the pages of history . ı am not 180 degrees off , America will never hurt New Turkey but might be thinking a new leader , anyone-but-PM way . Which is why economy starts to shine brilliantly . A-K-P of course always tells foreign credit auditors are Zionist and intentionally give bad marks to New Turkey , that's why at least two now have positive spin on the growth rate for 2020 . Easy credit on the way , from all those Rothschilds , to keep this totally anti-Israeli New Turkey in the black . Had Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu had been the Prime Minister and had he attempted to intervene against the Kurdish glory in Syria , how many Turkish planes America would have shot down by now , does anyone have an idea ?
and for Putin's cozyness with Ruhani , we have the spectacle of Fettah Tamince . This is a Congregation businessman who was defended by PM's lawyers . Like surprisingly some 2005 magazine immediately marks him as Congregation and then mentions that he is suspected to be laundering money on behalf of Russian oligarks . You know , hotels of Antalya where them Russian tourists do anything Unislamic , then start again . So , apparently not just money sharing with some A-K-P people , but friendship with Putin made Tamince walk free . Which caused so much dismay in certain places , like Nihal Olçok , widow of a close friend of the PM who was killed during the Disgrace of July 15th ; she also lost her son , named after the PM . Then like suddenly after the Ankara summit of PM , Putin and Ruhani ... Local observers will of course laugh at this , considering it a spillover of the fight between the Pelikan Grubu and the justice secretary of the palace cabinet , now that the Pelicanists accuse the secretary being soft on Congregation , hence re-investigation of Tamince ordered by the secretary . Considering Pelicanists are employed by the brother of the son-in-law of the PM and remove enemies of the son-in-law out of the way , one must perhaps avoid coverage of that fight entirely . And the second son-in-law of the PM has his technology festival , where some Russian airliner also debuted but the PM is yet to buy some . No doubt waiting to get vibes from Putin when the curret good vibes end . The newspaper tells us that we should all be proud with advances and inventions and devices shown at the festival , no doubt because Kemalists couldn't have done any of it .
long but finally coming to an end , all of them fully on subject . And for a change it's really and totally the Stuntwoman's fault ; you remember ı was like once not so formally accused of sending lights in the sky to dogfight with some officer or something who laughed at my sorry sight at the 2001 Airshow in Izmir ? She can't avoid this at all ! But perhaps not so for this book from 2008 or so . A Congregation star in media tells of how Nazis have escaped to Sirius , have made friends with locals and are coming back . ETA ? Anytime in 1968 ! Congregation are not that bright , apparently . If you are going to ally with aliens to fight the Republic , the positive universe against the negative Turk , at least understand your translation material (sent directly from Berlin) and fix dates that do not match ...
translation : Iran believes its missiles will get past S-400s , too . Which is a bad thing , so we now hear it was them Americans who want war in spite of Trump .
If I was a conspiracy theorist, I would suspect that Russia organized this attack
Advanced equipment was used. Brent is almost +10%, ruble gained 5% since the beginning of September.
And Patriot's failure was a good advertising for the S-400 too.
book report time . Extensive , meaning botheringly long passages , explaining this previous miracle that happened , Israel bombing Osirak , the inside spoiler containing the words of the author , who is certainly not an aviation type of a guy . If you are short on patience or something and know a bit of planes , you might find it cringeworthy :
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
/And in a historic turnabout, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, blistered the Israelis, calling the raid “shocking” and going so far as to compare it to the recent Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The United States also approved the passing of United Nations Resolution 487, which strongly condemned “military attacks by Israel in clear violation of the United Nations Charter and the norms of international law” and called for Israel to make “appropriate redress” to Iraq.
...Back in Baghdad, Hussein and the Iraqis took full advantage of their new role as aggrieved victim. Ironically, Iraq was not even sure who had bombed Osirak until Begin released the news bulletin on Monday... On June 23, Saddam Hussein finally addressed the public for the first time since the raid. He called on “all peace-loving nations of the world to help the Arabs in one way or another [to] acquire atomic weapons” in order to offset Israel’s “nuclear capability.” Hussein, however, quickly distanced himself and his Ba’th Party from the disaster ... accusing the French of complicity with Israel and denouncing his own Atomic Energy administration for lax security and failing to anticipate a hostile military attack—even though Hussein himself had vetoed plans early on to construct the reactor belowground...
/“Israel has nothing to apologize for,” [Begin] snapped into the microphone in front of him. On the contrary, he exclaimed, “I feel like a man who’s left prison. I feel like a free man!”
Indeed, the raid solidified Begin’s popularity in Israel as a defender of the nation. Before the June 7 raid, a poll in the Jerusalem Post showed Shimon Peres’s Labor Party continuing to hold a steady lead over Begin and the Likud Party. By the evening of election day, June 30, 1981, Begin and Likud had been swept to victory, ushering in a political and cultural revolution. For the first time in the history of Israel, the Socialist-Zionist alliance of European and American Jews that had guided the nation from its inception had been repudiated, replaced by the most hawkish government ever assembled in Jerusalem. Indicative of its conservative bent was Begin’s appointment of Ariel Sharon as defense minister and Yitzhak Shamir as foreign minister.
Perhaps in somewhat the same way that the United States’ stunning victories in Afghanistan more than twenty years later would embolden George W. Bush’s administration to launch an offensive against Iraq, so Osirak in 1981 precipitated a series of bold political and military moves by a newly confident and invigorated Menachem Begin. In the prime minister’s estimation, Osirak had given him a mandate to quash all of Israel’s enemies once and for all. Heartened by the success of the attack, Begin and Sharon were determined to drive Yasser Arafat and the Palestine Liberation Organization out of Beirut. Within the year, Begin made his fateful decision to invade Lebanon and lay siege to Beirut. In the bloody chaos that followed, Sharon would fatally miscalculate the military’s control over Israel’s Christian Phalangist allies. While under the supposed protection of the IDF, a renegade Phalangist battalion swooped into the densely populated Palestinian refugee camps at Lebanon’s Sabra and Shatila farms and massacred 750 men, women, and children while Israeli military forces stood by impotently and watched. The resulting outcry both worldwide and within Israel nearly toppled Begin’s government and ultimately led to Sharon’s dismissal and years of bitter political exile.
The June 7 raid unleashed other unexpected aftershocks for Begin as well. During his monumental press conference two days after the attack, the prime minister, in his zeal to praise the IDF, bragged that the Israeli F-16s had destroyed a secret facility buried “forty meters beneath the reactor”—a hidden plant for the production of atomic bombs. There had been no such secret facility beneath Osirak—the closest thing to it might have been the nuclear guide hall, the experimental laboratory to investigate the property of neutrons that extended beneath the ground from the reactor. To the horror of [Mossad and the IDF] what Begin was describing did in fact exist, but not at al-Tuwaitha [site of the Iraqi reactor]. He had confused Osirak with Israel’s own supersecret A-bomb plant 120 feet belowground at Dimona.
/On June 7, 2001, the eight mission pilots along with the two backup pilots and all their wives gathered together for the first time in two decades to mark the twentieth anniversary of the raid on Osirak...
The years after the raid had brought them all an odd kind of anonymous celebrity. Their deed was known throughout the world and lionized in the Israeli press, but because of the military’s insistence on continued secrecy about the mission, which, at least officially, remained classified, few outside the IAF, wives, and family knew who they were. But the pilots were satisfied with the respect and appreciation of those colleagues and high-level professionals who understood exactly what they had accomplished. For months, in fact, the Pentagon had refused to believe that the pilots had truly flown to al-Tuwaitha and back without refueling. There were rumors that the F-16s had actually been refueled over Saudi Arabia by tankers disguised as commercial planes. Other fantastical stories had it that the pilots had flown the entire distance grouped so tightly together that ground radar would mistakenly “read” them as a commercial flight. Amazed by the accuracy of the targeting, the Arab nations charged that Mossad spies had planted secret homing devices in the reactor. The pilots would quietly shake their heads and lae and warning of the nation’s ongoing nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs.
[One of the pilots], in fact, was given the task of walking a skeptical U.S. Air Force captain sent from the Defense Department and an official from General Dynamics step-by-step through the entire mission in order to demonstrate how they had pulled off the attack on “one tank of gas.”
/the targeting of the reactor by the Israeli pilots was one of the most accurate bombing missions in modern warfare; that the F-16s the Israelis flew were somehow made to fly far beyond the envelope of their design specs; and that the pilots flew six hundred miles no more than a hundred feet off the ground.
/Known as Cheyl Ha Avir, or Corps of the Air, the IAF’s dogma and tactics were highly sophisticated, continually being refined by combat experience. By 1980 the IAF had recorded some 700 kills in the air, and 13,000 total since its inception in 1947—more than all fighter kills by all the countries in World War II combined.
/The process was complicated by the fact that the first eight F-16s off the production line were Iranian and had been built to the shah’s specifications. Israeli Air Force tactics and combat protocols were significantly more sophisticated than those of the Iranians, and therefore so were the IAF’s operational needs. For one thing, the shah had ordered his planes built to United States Navy specifications. As such, the planes were designed to carry the navy’s standard 1,000-pound ordnance. The IAF on the other hand used only 500-pound or 2,000-pound bombs. Katz had to ensure that the F-16s already on the line were retrofitted with the proper bomb clips and release systems to accommodate Israeli ordnance as well as make sure the necessary design changes were incorporated into production of future Israeli F-16s. The IAF’s F-16s would be outfitted with Israeli-made, air-to-air Sidewinder missiles instead of U.S. Stingers. This change necessitated not only new modified missile clips under the wings but also changes in the plane’s computerized missile logic. Likewise, the Iranian-ordered F-16 communication systems had to be replaced and modified to conform to the IAF’s own secure Com links. There were many such changes throughout the aircraft’s various systems.
/How the F-16s would exceed their deadhead range of 540 to 560 miles to accomplish the 600-mile flight to Baghdad remained to be worked out, as would the type of ordnance used, the exact number of planes, the nature of tactical support, and myriad other details.
Operations quickly discarded the idea of using so-called “smart bombs.” These were mostly U.S.-made GBU-15s, which were dropped at a distance from the target and then guided by the pilot through remote-control movable fins and a television camera in the bomb nose. But the bombs were large and cumbersome, and the added weight and drag would reduce fuel efficiency, already a crucial factor in the long-range mission. Moreover, the new smart bombs were not 100 percent reliable and, worse, would demand the pilots’ attention and add to their workload at the precise time they were most vulnerable to AAA fire.
The team determined that the most efficient means of penetrating the dome and destroying the reactor beneath was to drop two-thousand-pound MK-84 slick, or “dumb,” bombs, which simply used gravity. The bombs created a horizontal destruction pattern extending thirty-four hundred feet—more than enough to take out the entire reactor. They could be rigged for either instant detonation or delayed fusing and were simple, foolproof, and effective—something the pilots, taxed already with sophisticated mechanical and navigational systems, would welcome.
/For months, Operations’ engineers and experts labored intensely over their computers in Tel Aviv trying to solve the mission’s biggest obstacle—physics. ... had long ago rejected in-flight refueling as far too risky to attempt over enemy desert terrain. Besides, it had become a moot point because the Iranian-ordered F-16s had been designed to U.S. Navy specifications, which meant that the refueling baskets were on the bottom of the planes. Israeli tanker planes only refueled to the top of the aircraft, the same as the U.S. Air Force. The F-16s would have to get to Baghdad and back on one tank, so to speak.
Months into training it had become obvious the F-16s would have to carry two external fuel tanks, one under each wing. Designed by GD, each tank added an additional 3,000 pounds, or 450 gallons, of fuel.
/The familiar blue six-point Star of David and white circle on the wings were painted out with the sand, brown, and green iguana pattern of desert camouflage.
/... led the team home on full thrusters, streaking at supersonic speed the entire trip and rattling the windows of the towns and kibbutzes below—and breaking IAF rules against flying at supersonic speeds over civilian territory. He was sure they wouldn’t object this one time. The men were back at Ramat David in less than half an hour. [Next day is Shavuot , a religious festival and a holiday] Radios everywhere played traditional Israeli folk songs and music. Katz [one of the pilots] and his wife were sitting on a hay bale, nibbling on their packed lunch, when a man picnicking next to them leaned toward [them] and announced, “Did you hear? We just blew up Iraq’s nuclear reactor!”
Katz couldn’t believe his ears. What the hell? he thought. They had all just been resworn to secrecy the night before. How did the news get out?
/Begin was bound by honor and diplomacy to inform Israel’s closest ally of the attack. But Begin secretly hoped that the United States would break the announcement to the world, thereby implicitly involving itself in the attack and taking some of the heat off Israel. Moreover, the Israeli parliament, when informed of the raid, made Begin promise that no one in the government would talk about the mission unless word of it broke first in an outside source. But the prime minister was impatient to get the story out—first, because the raid had been an unqualified success; and second, because he wanted to take the offensive position to blunt the international outcry he knew would be forthcoming. In fact, he had already ordered his press secretary, Uri Porath, to draft a press release detailing the mission. All Monday morning the prime minister waited for news to break in the world press. But the Reagan administration had refused to bite. They were staying way away from this one.
Finally, around noon, Begin saw an opening. During a public debate in the Jordanian Parliament broadcast over the nation’s airwaves, the Jordanian prime minister accused Israeli planes of taking part in the Iran-Iraq war. The prime minister was not alluding to the attack on Osirak, since even Iraq was not sure at the time of the nationality of the fighter planes that had bombed al-Tuwaitha, but Begin heard what he wanted to hear: Israel was being named as the perpetrator of the air strike.
“Release the statement,” he ordered his press secretary.
Hours later there had still been no announcement. Begin, irate, called in Porath.
“Didn’t you release that statement?” he snapped.
“Yes, I called it in hours ago.”
Begin stormed to his telephone.
Just before three o’clock, Emmanuel Halprin received a phone call at his staff office at KOL YISRAEL, the Voice of Israel. The call was from his uncle, Menachem Begin.
“Yes, Uncle?” Halprin answered dubiously, wondering what was going on.
“Did you receive a press statement from my office this afternoon?” Begin snapped.
"Well . . .”
In fact, Halprin had been puzzling over a bizarre “press release” talking about a bombing of Iraq’s nuclear reactor, which had been dictated over the phone to the radio station earlier, supposedly from the prime minister’s office. Because of the Shavuot holiday, the radio station had only a skeleton crew. The announcement sounded too incredible. Maybe the receptionist had been taken in by a prankster. Halprin had decided to hold it.
“We thought it was a hoax,” Emmanuel said. “Is it real?”
“Yes, dammit,” Begin snorted. “Get it broadcast. Now!”
Emmanuel hung up the phone and immediately walked the statement into the announcer’s booth. Programming was interrupted for a special announcement: “The Israel Air Force yesterday attacked and destroyed completely the Osirak nuclear reactor which is near Baghdad. . . .”
and here's yours idiotly at it ... War is the continuation of politics , right ? An election winner and ı seriously like the way how the pilots are surprised , they have flown supersonic all over the country at night as if people would not question what was happening ... Israel being a small country where everyone knew everyone , the nephew of the Israeli Prime Minister does not know that he is the one to tout the horn , despite Begin being this "neocon" who knows the power of the media , media ever supportive when it's Israel . You can almost "claim" Israelis didn't know who bombed Osirak either . You can even feel some pity for Sharon , who was "pulled" to Lebanon with a feeling of greatness so that he would fall from grace and had to wait for decades to come back so that he could "occupy" El Aksa and start the Second Intifada ! And Begin can not stop , claiming a 40 metre penetration while Spector's bomb still penetrates somewhat to block a concrete tunnel , because in 2004 the West is doing the Crusade thing and neither the West nor the Israelis miss , ever and never .
this is why the talk is all about how the Israelis overcome all obstacles . Like overloading their F-16s to an unbelievable level . You would think nobody had dropped drop tanks in combat before and oh my , the book even accepts the loss of Israeli planes in 1967 at H-3 (the Iraqi airbase closest to Israel) and yet claims the longest range combat missions before 1981 were to the Suez Canal ... Publication date of 2004 being times the French were unpopular due refusing to take part in the "Liberation" of Iraq , the book naturally doesn't mention the H-3 mission involved Vatours , French made tactical nuclear bombers , provided even before the Israeli bomb , so that the French could nuke some bunch of unwasheds who weren't in range of Metropolitan France ; Menderes actually voted against Algerian indepence in the UN or something , proof you can never satisfy the West ! Then , the one tank claim while they took off with 3 and underwing drops of F-16 are of 600 gallon capacity , not 450 . From the top of my head F-105s had such tanks and nothing else . And then they had to teach an USAF pilot and General Dynamics guy how it was done . Oh , am aware "one tank of gas” actually means no refuelling . Which creates a whole new issue . Didn't expect it to say they landed at a Saudi airfield . And am well aware "that the F-16s the Israelis flew were somehow made to fly far beyond the envelope of their design specs" is totally wrong because F-16 was like far over-designed for the claimed dogfighter role . Am the one who says Israelis got the first fullspine F-16s and they are merely Block 50(-)s , right ? Not the at time , naturally .
and oh my , oh my , USAF allowing USN to meddle with its newest fighter ! Like Iranians having Navy specs with regards to bomb weight . Like a snowball in hell -as all the propellerheads in CFC will agree ... This is the second time ı see this and that allows me to classify it as a Neocon thing . "Two years later, Boyd and Sprey joined forces with Col. Everest E. Riccioni, who believed that the navy was secretly working on the development of a lightweight airsuperiority aircraft." is a qoute from a book by an F-16 pilot , who had his foreword by Dick Cheney . Not the kind of a statement that you can safely make on aviation forums because this Riccioni guy then supposedly worked hard and made a "Falcon Brief" to bigwigs in DC and was exiled to Korea for it . Perhaps because USAF saw it and got ready to call it Mustang II ? Uhm , what ? By this time , if you are like an avid r16 reader , you should have reached the conclusion that the F-16 is a Vought design , trimming and reshaping the F-8/A-7 form to some logical extreme . Industry issues , dude , there are too many companies and they all lobby and cause waste and some must join forces or buy each other and stuff . McDonnell and Douglas creates a behemoth , Boeing (while the industry leader in airliners) looks for a partner . Preferably on the Navy side as USAF is already a big customer of Boeing products . USN will not give away Grumman as it has much hopes about the F-14 and the like . This leaves Vought which will lose its primary status , but keep up with subcontract business and the like . Boeing thus gets the "supermodel thin" F-16 , that will win the experimental contract that seeks to prototype dogfighters as technology demonstrators . US lawmakers (hearing there might be big contracts and hence money) force the reasonable programme into one of purchase . Both USN and USAF are to have the winner . And oh my , GD has the midsize version , cheating with leaving room in the nose for a full radar and large cockpit ready for a 7 degrees seat if requried instead of the 30 degrees wanted for testing . Immediately ready for production , because Harry Hillaker is a genius ! GD version also has the F-15 engine , making F-15s cheaper to prevent an USAF purchase of F-14s . Vought to be bought by GD , because they are just 30 miles away in Texas , Boeing losing a handhold in future things , a decrease in sales , creating a chance for Lockheed in airliner business . CIA loves Lockheed , DC loves Lockheed kind of thing . Even better , the midsize F-16 is utterly marginal in carrier business , while Vought dabbles with it as the V-1600 (only because this will create the venue for the GD purchase of Vought) USN might loose enough prestige to divest itself of tactical jet business all together . American Navy went all the way , the other way , developing F-17 into 18 , massive expense , not a little bit of lies revolving around a combat radius of 400 nautical miles and the whole bunch of stuff , supporting Vought to develop a fat F-16 to the point of ugliness , which might also have been available as a "national" Turkish aircraft co-production wise .
years later Cheney refused F-14E by all means possible , buying F-18E . Improved with its canted pylons so that it would be more draggy and fall short in range , but ı guess it can do the 400 nm thing ...
... "The IAF’s F-16s would be outfitted with Israeli-made, air-to-air Sidewinder missiles instead of U.S. Stingers" is this revelation though . While anyone will say the author is anything but a total aviation person , r16 is here to deduce that the Americans are in the first stage of Stealth and internal missile storage and looking forward to field an advanced IR missile like mid-1970s and this will not be the British ASRAAM but something bigger . Plus it's fired from a tube and this might even help to avoid opening bomb bay doors in the way F-22 has to ... Not a transposition of Israeli Shafrir with Sidewinder but the beginnings of the Python , which gained even more massive Sidewinder gear as time went by . IR AMRAAM ? What a silly idea !
remember we are discussing how miracles happen . Miracles happen when the media declare them to be miracles . Like "Iranian-ordered F-16s had been designed to U.S. Navy specifications, which meant that the refueling baskets were on the bottom of the planes. Israeli tanker planes only refueled to the top of the aircraft, the same as the U.S. Air Force." Guy can not possibly have seen any pictures of planes ?! Buddy refuelling really involves a drop tank under but ... Israelis developed a 600 gallon drop tank with a probe on it to use the hose and drogue method , but ı think that was 20 years later . The author thanks some USAF pilot for showing him an F-16 upclose and he might have been actually shown the single point [on-the-ground] fuel intake but r16 is here to tell you there's no record of F-16s refueling wingtip to wingtip and King Hussein of Jordan would have seen them had they taken off in formation . Strangely for all his attempts to save Saddam back in the day , he gets a favourable press here . No rehash of how he sees the jets , calls his HQ and gets assured by the reply that they are onto it , except the guys are Israelis mimicking Jordanians .
one is to be wary of making too much of a fuss about the Jordanian "MiGs" . Jordanian jets might scramble or Iraqis might chase the Israelis into the Jordanian airspace , and the Israeli markings overpainted ? Odd , they are letting themselves doubly available for getting hanged if forced down , because no markings on the plane like makes you a spy , in addition to being Israelis who have just bombed Saddam's reactor . And America and Israel are not that close or something ? Like how America would take the heat off Israel by announcing the attack first , like at a time an Iraqi bomb would scare Ankara to welcome a properly supported Kurdish thing and accept the end of the Republic with a Federation , despite Santa Turgut warming up at the time to become the Prime Minister ?
and being a numbers man , ı gotta explain that the 700 kills by the end of Yom Kippur was not holding water even at the time . "Our Israeli friends claimed more than 440 Arab aircraft destroyed [in the October War of 1973], most of them in air combat. Current sources show the number of Israeli air-to-air kills at around 83." says Dan Pedersen in his book of 2019 ; he is the guy who established Top Gun . 13000 might be the number of combat sorties flown . Nor Israel could have shot down more planes then all the rest of the world combined "after" the end of WW II . 747 MiGs vs 78 or 103 F-86s is the official American numbers for Korea to begin with ...
so , what happenz else ? A surprise that am still being translated and distributed locally ? My international "reputation" began after 2009 or so , with pointblank refusal immediately identified by people (who are nameless as their job definition) who were already aware of Lady Vader taking my hopelessness as a thing , for some reason . Yours idiotly being a real idiot was the way such extremely undesirable ideas might have been heard , the only way ı could pay . Congregation people laughing at me became Congregation people who hated me . Couldn't arrest me , because America wanted me and my word laughed at , despising the origin of my word so hard for so many years . Up to an advisor to the highest levels after he arranged for me to be kicked out of some webforum and he was advised by the US that ı had the "right" to threaten US with anti-matter bombs . ı will be dead one of these days . As such the local hate was fed and fed . Currently , both Congregation and the Party know the word plausible deniability and as such nothing happens to me , Congregation keeping it aflame , though the haters might not be aware and Party stopping it , since maybe mid 2012 . When the war begins , ı will be dead , the first America will do and the last thing they will do , too . Still , there will be those who read the mostly half translated r16 posts (now that practically anyone here in CFC find them impossible in English anyhow) and they will imagine themselves to be slighted and move to hit back and so .
so , when ı try to save some 15 years olds from being laughed at , ı only discover 20 years olds are in danger . When some Iranian guy working in some nuclear laboratory finds and USB in the street , brings it to job to attach it to the otherwise airtight or secure computer network , perhaps hoping to find songs and whatnot and so releases Stuxnet into the system , causing massive damage , it's easy to find him and perhaps shoot him . But when you accidentally shoot down and Iranian jet while firing at an American drone it's alltogether a different thing . See , the Iranian Revolutionary Guard was Humeyni's lot , young people seeking martyrdom , while the Iranian Air force was the cream of Shah's military forces . Heroes of the revolution on one side , "traitors" on the other , forcibly joined together to fight Saddam's Iraq . When the Pasdaran shot down an Iraqi plane everyone in Iran heard the Pasdaran had shot down an Iraqi plane . When the Iranian Airforce shot down an Iraqi plane everyone in Iran still heard the Pasdaran had shot down an Iraqi plane . They simply could not agree that it was an accident that got that F-14 , because the Iranian Airforce would still believe their people were carelessly shot down . Even shot down in cold blood so that they couldn't down the American drone and gain credits . As long as the Airforce couldn't , the Revolutionary Guard would be content to let the drone slip away . Hence Iranians claiming some flying saucer type American reconnaisance plane that came , took the pictures and shot down the F-14 . Everybody knows Tahran does not want the two wings of the Iranian Military come to blows , fight each other , especially on the moment they are making huge inroads into Iraq while Bush II is talking silly stupid on how America is winning the War on Terror . No Mach 10 stuff , it's made up totally , doesn't even exist . Iranians told lies . To their own people who already knew they were lies . Don't believe me ? Why , Iranians still believe the fall of the Shah is related to an UFO that overflew Tahran in 1977 or 78 . Know people who don't like beardies ? Why would they topple the Shah to let Humeyni in ?
doesn't mean ı don't get to troll America . Accordingly , at a time when the whole world should have been talking the acceptance . That there are things out there that pay cat and mouse with the American Navy (which no longer has the F-14 but is making Topgun II with a F-14 to claim they have) . Meaning they have to be Aliens , space folks , ETs , bunch of dudes who have no fears of the Lizards who have the run of the US according to some conspiracy theory . Even to the benefit of godless atheists , now that at the end of the day "everybody" supports space research to prove Life on Earth is not unique , it happens elsewhere and this proves Darwin was right and there is no god . With the required phrase that Allah Exists because ı will be naturally be accused of claiming god doesn't exist . Does anyone speak about that ? It had to be a 1000 page thread by now ! What happens ? They discover a comet that came from outer space , beyond the fringes of the Solar System . There was this stick that came first , which they named gods' messenger as in multiple gods or some guy who travelled a long distance to come here and what not and it showed smartness and barrel rolls because in the movies the best thing to do is barrel rolls and speeded up and down and nobody talks about it . They make it mundane by discovering a comet that came from outer space . Yeah , ı might have had the scoop of the year and nobody cares and nowhere in this sentence you find a claim that anything is real . Everybody loves the carrot , though , without ever thanking , too ...
ı randomly attached an old USB of mine , it was from 2017 . 2 full years and month back ı was claiming (without any proof , any evidence , any truth , any fact) that the US would fight blind , that radars actually do not work in the way they think radars do . This is because over-tired/ under-trained crew members wrecked a second billion dollar USN destroyer in the 4th collision of 2017 ... And me saying
<allow me insert a personal rant and the two kids on the street and all that stuff actually happened .
oh sure , it's going to be one of those everybody detests .
am a perfect example that the Turkish education system of 1980s could raise perfect idiots , but am pretty sure when ı was 15 or so ı had enough language ability that my last post here did not imply we somehow screened the hitters in either case for some reason . But then am pretty much impressed by the education system of New Turkey : These two kids on the street had the concept of the so called god of the sea , Poseidon . Thus yours idiotly mocked by these two as if some deity or something smacking little toys of "AEGIS" rated ships . And because they actually read it from some other guy commenting on it , because everything yours idiotly posts gets repeated with generally 85% (?) faulty translation on top of the typical r16 style , the two coolest of the cool is not aware that yours idiotly , you know out of humility and stuff , passed all the stages to Chieftain of 0 posts to King of a 1000 and so on . What does it say ? Oh no , they would love me to be Poseidon , for you gotta imagine what they would be then , now that they are superior to me day and night , in and out .>
can you imagine two kids knowing Poseidon ? Though they might have learned it from computer games . Chieftain of 0 posts naturally means when you have enough posts , 2000+ as ı remember , the forum calls you a deity , with yours idiotly changing that into not deity ...
my 4000th post was on the same days , too . A noble effort , if you will , with r16 telling British Aviation industry that that they were "legally" warned . Also finding the inspirations for the Blockade Runner and the TIE Fighter of the Star Wars in some Spanish comic series , Dani Futuro . So obscure that it didn't have an English wikipedia page back then . People even think C-3PO and R2-D2 are the end result of Jorge (the comic's robot , divided into two) one awesome that saves the day and one for comic relief . And honestly reporting that my TIE Fighter claim is on weak grounds as the relevant book was published in 1975 , on the very edge of SW filming and stuff . Am so fed up that am not thinking anything noble for the 5000th .
not even trying to understand what a "Taarruzi" or Offensive UAV is . The one the PM signed his signature on , at the tech festival of his second son-in-law . Apparently this one goes into hostile airspace ? Not that the PM looked much happy either , might have asked New Turkey could surely do needle work to the same style and his second son-in-law probably said stuff but not a straight "yes" . Might be why the newspaper of the brother of son-in-law of the PM says 1 million people attented to the airshow , entirely "true" for the 2nd day as they were expecting to make 1.5 millions and naturally , just naturally a world record for attendance . Some smart guy on the TıRT , the so called State Channel , says they should have said "close to 2 millions" . As anything equal of 1 000 001 is close to 2 000 000 , isn't it ?
translation : After the two bombing raids on Russian weapon development and a possible commando raid against Russia's largest biological weapons facility (which might equally be of bombers as well), some American NATO commander says they have lost the military superiority over the Russians . Some other NATO talk warns Russia that if they attack NATO , NATO will destroy the air defence system of Kaliningrad . You , being sane and natural and normal , would think that was related to a possible showdown in Syria , with Syrians opening fire on an American plane and it ending in WW III through Polandball and all . Me , being an idiot , re-read the newspaper page days later , thinking it said "overflying territory" instead of "attacking NATO" . 2017 also seems to be the time when America discovered North Korea could strike the US with ICBMs , me fervently hoping that the reports were delivered on the 4th of July and Trump saying he would never let any country be bigger then the US . ı read Trump once refused the offer of a realtime TV Show in his office by saying a lot of Mafia types were visiting him ; ı have no real surprise that he indeed turned out to be Mafia ...
so , real simple . We Turks have no intention of partaking in the destruction of Iran . So , His Excellencies Prince Mega BS , the idiot who will become the next Saudi King , can give up on his bid to impress people with a victory in Yemen , so that he can become the commander-in-chief of Sunnis and the Caliph in Jihad on Iran . He can always join the Crusade against us .
yeah , nothing is real .
PS: much love the way the posting of a single post elsewhere has created a shut up call around . The two years since 2017 has only led to [now] State Department Bunny , you know .
Russian airbase in Syria also gets regularly attacked by rebels drones. There are reports that more than hundred of them were shot down this year only.
Not too much info on what defense systems are used, supposedly it's a combination of radio-electronic warfare with different short-range systems such as Tor and Pantsir.
S-400 is not used against these cheap targets.
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It was drawn by a Russian ansi artist who is a great fontist. He drew my name out of nowhere and I love what he did so I'm using it
This is offtopic tho so *runs away*
