What kind of mental illness does Mike Pence have?

[Terxpahseyton]

tl>

The guy who literally came up with narcissist personality disorder diagnosis says Trump doesn't fit.

Because he does not suffer but is highly functional (in a way). That doesn't really mean he does not have it. It only means he does not have it in a way considered to be in need of treatment for his own good.
But why is it only diagnosed when the subject suffers greatly for it? Because those kind of illnesses have such vague symptoms that potentially half or more of the population could fit the bill, if interpreted accordingly. They aren't really a thing. They rather are very very rough categorizations to guide treatment and what is treated is the suffering, not so much the "illness" itself. There is no cure for narcissism. But there is a healthy or functional level of narcissism and there is a self-destructive or strongly impairing level of narcissism.
This is important to understand.

What this means is slapping those disorders on Trump is not wrong because of a faulty or reckless diagnosis. It is wrong because such a diagnosis is always faulty and can only serve as a means to an end.

Now, with regards to Trump himself his narcissism seems to be doing fine. With regards to his current job, it seems to be an impairment.
So if mental health was not about personal well-being but being good in ones job, there are grounds to say Trump has a narcissistic disorder.

tl;dr: There are no healthy minds. Only functional.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Persecutory delusion. He thinks there are evil forces out to get him.

 

[Hygro]

this means is slapping those disorders on Trump is not wrong because of a faulty or reckless diagnosis. It is wrong because such a diagnosis is always faulty and can only serve as a means to an end.

Well, narcissism predicts behaviors under circumstances. Mostly rage-driven behaviors (violence) as a response to narcissistic injury. I'm not convinced D Trump is a narcissist. The driving mechanism is through shame, and Trump seems pretty shameless. Even his "I'm ashamed of my baldness" combover might just be a tactic to maintain a superior operation (a root level, animal response "we're dealing a haired man") at the cost of a far less significant negative operation ("we the aesthetically informed people wonder why he doesn't just proudly accept his baldness and herpaderpaderp we're not going to change our behavior based on this high level opinion").

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Trump is notoriously thin-skinned, isn't he? So he cares a lot, what people think. Just look at his twitter tirades to defend himself. And he seems unable to productively deal with or accept criticism he feels tarnishes his high self-image.
But one may argue that his narcissism feeds off real high status and success, and hence is a lot more stable than in cases actually deemed the mental disorder. I.e. functional narcissism.

And all the dumb things he said and did - reading conspiracy theories about him being wiretapped and taking them as the truth, being surprised that health care is a difficult subject etc - they all point towards him being chronically unable or unwilling to critically reflect things. Why? I think because his narcissism is in the way. Narcissism is exactly about not doing that, but thinking "this is how it must be!". About just leeching onto what you like. Be it conspiracy theories or a self-image.

 

[EnglishEdward]

tl>
Because he does not suffer but is highly functional (in a way). That doesn't really mean he does not have it. It only means he does not have it in a way considered to be in need of treatment for his own good.
But why is it only diagnosed when the subject suffers greatly for it? Because those kind of illnesses have such vague symptoms that potentially half or more of the population could fit the bill, if interpreted accordingly. They aren't really a thing. They rather are very very rough categorizations to guide treatment and what is treated is the suffering, not so much the "illness" itself. There is no cure for narcissism. But there is a healthy or functional level of narcissism and there is a self-destructive or strongly impairing level of narcissism.
This is important to understand.

What this means is slapping those disorders on Trump is not wrong because of a faulty or reckless diagnosis. It is wrong because such a diagnosis is always faulty and can only serve as a means to an end.

Now, with regards to Trump himself his narcissism seems to be doing fine. With regards to his current job, it seems to be an impairment.
So if mental health was not about personal well-being but being good in ones job, there are grounds to say Trump has a narcissistic disorder.

tl;dr: There are no healthy minds. Only functional.

I understand what you are saying, but I think it would be more appropriate to postulate that Donald Trump has a narcissistic tendency or leans towards narcissism.

If it is not sufficiently significant to prevent him functioning, perhaps it is better not to use the terms disorder or illness.

Doing so falls into the greedy psychiatrists' trap of accepting their lucrative line that 100% of the population need treatment.

 

[Hygro]

Trump is notoriously thin-skinned, isn't he? So he cares a lot, what people think. Just look at his twitter tirades to defend himself. And he seems unable to productively deal with or accept criticism he feels tarnishes his high self-image.
But one may argue that his narcissism feeds off real high status and success, and hence is a lot more stable than in cases actually deemed the mental disorder. I.e. functional narcissism.

Or does he do that to keep the energy flowing his way, keep up relevance and attention and therefore power. He has a style, it's not orthodox for most successful people—most drawn to it aren't disciplined and functional enough to use it as a consistent too for a long-game purpose.

 

[zxcvbob]

Persecutory delusion. He thinks there are evil forces out to get him.

You think there aren't?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Or does he do that to keep the energy flowing his way, keep up relevance and attention and therefore power. He has a style, it's not orthodox for most successful people—most drawn to it aren't disciplined and functional enough to use it as a consistent too for a long-game purpose.

IMO because their surroundings do not actually support their allusion of grandeur. It is like you get constantly beaten to the ground for trying to fly. But once you are successful, once you own enough fuel and the plane to fly as high as you like, I don't think there is any discipline involved in getting absorbed in it and constantly acting on it. It just is your personality.
I am thinking of Berlusconi, who in some respects had a similar style. Or even Erdogan. People of power so absorbed with their grandiose self-image that they can't stop advertising it and willy-nilly attacking anyone opposing them. Trump's style is not new, is what I am saying. Or that special. He fits a typical class of personalities of people in charge. And narcissism plays a big role in them, IMO.
But at some point I suppose all three of them were, in some way or the other, disciplined man. And in some ways, they may still be. But I don't think with regards to the narcissism. That is rather their unfettered power source. That is at least the picture I get out of it.

 

[metalhead]

Is it narcissism, or a manifestation of massive insecurity? Trump doesn't come across to me as someone who is unreasonably confident and sure of himself. He comes across as someone who is totally lacking in self-esteem, to the point that external markers of success and esteem are the only things that soothe his fragile ego. His obsession with money, fame, and attention doesn't stem from a belief that he deserves these things, but rather from desperation that without them, he isn't any good.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I see this and you see this, but when Donny tries to project a persona of awesomeness, does he actually have the self awareness to understand what's going on or is he successfully fooling himself ?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Is it narcissism, or a manifestation of massive insecurity? Trump doesn't come across to me as someone who is unreasonably confident and sure of himself. He comes across as someone who is totally lacking in self-esteem, to the point that external markers of success and esteem are the only things that soothe his fragile ego. His obsession with money, fame, and attention doesn't stem from a belief that he deserves these things, but rather from desperation that without them, he isn't any good.

I thought that was a basic part of narcissism. The desperate need for agreement to support the bloated sense of individual superiority leads to a treadmill of "proving" and a demand for sycophantic behavior in anyone close. That seems to be Dingbat Donny in a nutshell.

 

[zxcvbob]

Are we still talking about Mike Pence?