What makes a great RPG?

[Farm Boy]

Good RPG? Plot has to be compelling or it's lost in the mud. Even super repetitive grindy dungeon hacks need a solid framework set down. It can even be sort of nebulous if it hits the right high points, and that's ok because people who like to fantasize are generally good at dreaming up things to go in the grey spaces.

Good mechanics for an RPG? I agree with you on what made Skyrim not worth finishing(for me, and I was too lazy to mod it, didn't like it enough). I loved the scale, the open world, and that it was beautiful. But the basic premise of (most) RPG mechanics is that you progress your character, it gets more powerful and developed, and then it possesses tools to overcome obstacles that it could not overcome before, in ways it could not before. By scaling everything so much to your character level, eventually I realize I could walk around in Skyrim and it was going to almost always be exactly the same, highly cultured, balance. It didn't matter where I went next. And when that didn't matter? I stopped caring. I like how Dark Souls(I've only played 1, not 2 or 3) did it better. Not that the game has to be that hard necessarily, but the world was open and you could go anywhere, but you were going to lack the tools to do some areas, and you were going to have to figure that out by failing in them. Some progression later, and you can take out that nemesis area. Dangling things that are hard to unbeatable/unattainable in view from the early game that you can come back to later is a solid mechanic.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You need both the role play and the game. World building/lore/story interaction/character motivation can vary drastically depending on how you set it up.

When it comes to combat it's more about the fights being interesting/engaging. The worst "RPGs" are the ones where you just smash popcorn enemies for 10-50+ hours and then you're untouchable. These are still sometimes salvaged by their stories, but they do so in spite of their mechanics.

But some people like smashing mooks for hours on end so who am I to judge.

The best of the best have internal consistency between lore/mechanics and character abilities interact well with the world.

 

[Synobun]

The worst "RPGs" are the ones where you just smash popcorn enemies for 10-50+ hours and then you're untouchable.

These are the best RPGs to me.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

These are the best RPGs to me.

I'm not sure what "role" you're playing in such a scenario though. A demigod? But your characters supposedly aren't (they even have cut scene losses to said popcorn in some of them!).

As for the "game" aspect, these battles usually don't require much thought or engagement. Some of them you can literally tape the controller down and walk away and it's a functional substitute for your presence (even some of the final fantasy games had that).

If I want a god mode smash the mooks interaction I'll play something like Magicka, where your inputs and decisions in the moment still matter but you absolutely can massacre everything when playing well. That's no "RPG" though, it has barely any power increase for characters from start to finish.

 

[Synobun]

I'm not sure what "role" you're playing in such a scenario though.

Someone who's having fun and leaving the "challenge" for real life.

 

[Patine]

Baldur's Gate 1 & 2
KOTOR 2 TSL (+RCM)
NWN SoU & HotU
NWN2 / MotB
Diablo 2
WoW - Vanilla/BC/Wrath era
Dragon Age (original / Awakenings + Inquisition)
Mass Effect (despite numerous flaws it's a great setting and story)

Quite enjoyed Oblivion and Skyrim, but they both have serious flaws, especially after you've played for a while.

Diablo 3 a massive let down ofc.

A really good RPG imo has a great story, setting or characters - preferably a combination of the three.

I've yet to see an RPG that can really implement massively different player classes and playstyles, that's something i'd like to see. Like where some of the classes get by almost entirely on political nouse - talking others into doing the fighting; or engineering classes that buff their allies with siege engines and gadgets, rather than doing the fighting themselves.

Even though I personally live in RL in the city where was founded and centred (Edmonton, Alberta) and I used to walk quite often by the building their headquarters were on the third floor (above a two-floor book store called Chapters) on Whyte Avenue near the University of Alberta campus, I must say, I only REALLY like a few of their games in the end - mostly Baldur's Gate 1 and Icewind Dale 1 & 2 - the others REALLY bugged me for varying reasons. Might & Magic 6-9 were pretty good too, actually, if a bit simplistic, even for their day. I love and still play WoW, and I started when BC was just released, but BC (and the mechanics, framework, set-up, and layout it directly inherited from Vanilla - the "good old days" stuff, as some older players call it, I feel I could not return to - it was just too irritating, and even though finding Mankirk's Wife after wandering around the Barrens for aimlessly for WEEKS and killing HUNDREDS of Goretusk boars who have no livers and HUNDREDS of Barrens raptors who have no heads just to gather up a few said livers and heads is a mark of pride among some players, I don't have the patience or time for that in a REACREATIONAL activity) - my favourite expansions all-in-all were Wrath of the Lich and Mists and Pandaria, and I absolutely DETESTED Warlords of Draenor to the core. I also quite like Rift as MMO's as well. As old school ones go, I'm quite of the Ultima series, before Ultima 8.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Someone who's having fun and leaving the "challenge" for real life.

Usually in an RPG the alleged role you're playing is the characters, not yourself playing the characters . I suppose I'm not one to get into that mindset but still, if escapism is what we're going for here I'd imagine the game character's experience being internally consistent is important to the story.

If he threw a dragon 2km with one hand I shouldn't be seeing a rock crush the guy in the next scene unless the game explicitly details a reason dragons are so light or why that rock was so heavy.

On the flip side, this is also why I'm willing to give "heroes can survive falls from infinite height" a pass in many cases. If the character is strong enough to jump multiple stories and face tank pretty incredible explosions in battle, there's good reason to doubt terminal velocity as a serious threat!

 

[Synobun]

What games are you playing where these things happen?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Answer to OP question:

pen n paper

 

[Lexicus]

Let's see. If my first experience with Skyrim is any indication, then just a little bit of LSD makes a good RPG.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Love for your son and daughter? Is that why Skyrim allows your character to adopt children?

 

[caketastydelish]

Does Assassin's Creed count as an RPG? Or Shadow of Mordor?

 

[Arakhor]

I think you could generously describe AC Origins as an Action RPG, given the large amount of character customisation by perks and equipment.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Skyrim doesn't do this. You're just some nameless prisoner at the start. Zero backstory other than your race.

How anyone could have possibly thought that going from "You're criminal scum with no personality or backstory" to "You're the Dovakiin, the Dragon Born, some demi-god, pretty much the coolest dude in the world, the mac daddy and you can do literally anything better than anyone else" in the matter of 5 minutes is beyond me

You need both the role play and the game. World building/lore/story interaction/character motivation can vary drastically depending on how you set it up.

When it comes to combat it's more about the fights being interesting/engaging. The worst "RPGs" are the ones where you just smash popcorn enemies for 10-50+ hours and then you're untouchable. These are still sometimes salvaged by their stories, but they do so in spite of their mechanics.

But some people like smashing mooks for hours on end so who am I to judge.

The best of the best have internal consistency between lore/mechanics and character abilities interact well with the world.

Same. A game isn't rewarding, nor fun, if it isn't challenging. There is nothing wrong with smashing popcorn enemies for 50+ hours, but it feels dull if you're not constantly (or sometimes) chugging potions or running away on the verge of death

 

[Synobun]

How anyone could have possibly thought that going from "You're criminal scum with no personality or backstory" to "You're the Dovakiin, the Dragon Born, some demi-god, pretty much the coolest dude in the world, the mac daddy and you can do literally anything better than anyone else" in the matter of 5 minutes is beyond me

You would like Wurm Unlimited. You can be a rando peasant farmer and have that be the height of your capabilities. Very immersive because of its realism. You're not special, no one thinks you're special, and you'll never do anything special. Truly, the goal of an RPG.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

You would like Wurm Unlimited. You can be a rando peasant farmer and have that be the height of your capabilities. Very immersive because of its realism. You're not special, no one thinks you're special, and you'll never do anything special. Truly, the goal of an RPG.

Kinda, yeah. I loved how in Morrowind you would just be some lowlife S'wit to most of the Dunmer (really, most of anybody) population, and even when you're almost done with the main quest barely anyone believes you actually are the Nerevarine.

 

[Synobun]

Kinda, yeah. I loved how in Morrowind you would just be some lowlife S'wit to most of the Dunmer (really, most of anybody) population, and even when you're almost done with the main quest barely anyone believes you actually are the Nerevarine.

Same thing in Skyrim. Let me guess, someone stole your sweetroll?

 

[Lexicus]

Kinda, yeah. I loved how in Morrowind you would just be some lowlife S'wit to most of the Dunmer (really, most of anybody) population, and even when you're almost done with the main quest barely anyone believes you actually are the Nerevarine.

But at that, there's an inconsistency in Skyrim in that your enemies are never intimidated by your status as the dragonborn. Even the lowliest bandit will just charge at you instead of going "that's the Dragonborn, I choose life"

 

[Chukchi Husky]

There was one problem I had with Skyrim that is fixed by a mod.

Throughout the game, you're told that WIndhelm is a racist city. It's the home of the Stormcloaks and has a strong idea of Nords before everyone else. You're told that the Dunmer have to live in a poor area of the city and Argonians aren't even allowed in the city. I play as an Argonian and when I entered Windhelm, a short scene happens just as in every city that begins a quest, but nothing else. I can go through the city as an Argonian without any problems, no one even noticing that I'm an Argonian. There's a mod called Inconsequential NPCs and among the other random NPCs added to the game, if you play as an Argonian a guard approaches you, telling you "Your kind aren't welcome in this city. You need to leave."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Having pondered this a bit, what makes a great RPG is the player. Back when I was writing Arvil Bren's Journal I had a message taped across the top rim of my monitor. It said "there needs to be a dungeon-master and you are the only one here." So Arvil never stole things off a shop shelf and promptly sold them to the shopkeeper...not because the mechanics of the game wouldn't allow it, but because I wouldn't. A lot of the simple quests became very challenging in the space of "I have to write, in Arvil's voice, how he accomplished this." Made that playthrough unquestionably the best "role-playing game" I've ever experienced...even though Morrowind has immense flaws.