Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by AtlantaMarty, Apr 18, 2017.
Please, send me some of the stuff you're smoking. I want it.
With the good work that Leoreth has put into the late areas, it seems a shame that there isn't any civilization that has the Mars colony as a goal.
I get the obvious counterpoint, that this is future speculation as opposed to actual history, but then again since the techs and wonders are already there, why not use them?
There could be a couple of ways to implement this: one would be to use Australia since it is currently "the empty land", the other candidate would be the European Union, founding in Brussels (i.e. the space between Paris and Frankfurt and Amsterdam) something in the 1950s. The Mars Colony could present the technological ambitions of the EU.
The Mars Colony is the Technological Victory. Having the Mars Colony Completion as the UHV would mean that the other two UHV goals would be meaningless. You win either way.
If the goal is just to start the Mars colony... why, we have already civs that have UHV goals connected to the Space Race (Apollo).
What about a Zulu civ? Their UB and UU is the same but with the UU replacing a rifleman or musketman, similar to pombos. Their UP would basically be a supercharged one from Civ V and their goals would be tied towards the precious mines of SA, holding off against the dirty birts and maybe even related to Today's South Africa where they build a nuke.
Australia, south africa please
- Australia, naturally.
- And a non-player native american civ that may have a few cities but no cultural borders beyond first ring. Barbarian rules apply, but they should be allowed to have diplomatic relationships with all American civs from Maya/Aztec/Inca towards even US/Canada/Brazil. The latter would profit more from conquering them, but maybe there could be player that prefers to have a native vassal. At least, as long as said vassal doesn't destroys all other foreign relations... *rolls eyes*.
- And flexible spawns of a South African and a West African civilization: If a colonial civ goes into collapse, South Africa should be able to emerge as early as 1850; and West Africa as early as 1940. "West Africa" (Mali respawn!) shouldn't be the name, of course. Depending on their capital, the nation's name may be Senegal or Liberia or Nigeria or whatever. For "South Africa" I would think that they'd be starting as a Boer civ under the civics of Isolationism/Colonialism. Only when they change to either Egalitarianism or Multilateralism they would evolve into the modern black democracy. That said: I'm not in favor of a Zulu civ emerging in the Industial Age, it just seems wrong to me. They would only be competing with Kongo for dominance over Africa, and the colonial civs need also their space for expansion. (Currently tolerating a very powerful+stable AI Portuguese Empire with Maria holding all of west/south Africa and lasting long into the 20th century. That's somewhat nice.)
Now that Leoreth is basically done with unlinking civs and slots, it is probably a good idea to revisit potential additional civs, some might be partial, and some might be playable:
Already existing in some form:
Mamlukes, currently respawn, but don't have stuff fleshed out as a playable civilization
Peru, also respawns, but also without flavour, make into a Peru-Bolivia Confederation?
Turkic, different incarnations of Central Asia with more flavour?
Boers/South Africa, a popular request, fills a good bit of dead space
Australia, also population, fills a giant amount of dead space
Vietnam, Cambodia hasn't been a major player since the Khmer, but Vietnam could be a new interesting player, given the repeated Chinese attempts to take it over, plus interactions with the French.
Burma, fills a good chunk of space that Siam and Vietnam don't really fill. Taungoo tried to expand and conquer the rest of Indochina so that could be an interesting point, then later friction for European colonized India.
Indonesia is quite large and historically quite culturally varied, just one civilization seems strange, maybe split it into Javanese (Majapahit) and Sumatra (Sri Vijaya) civs? Should there be one for Malaya and Borneo? This was an important area for trade, religion, and conflict
Middle East and North Africa
Maghreb seems too big for just Morocco, need at least an Algeria, maybe also a Libya and even a Tunisia?
South Arabia, there should probably be something for Yemen and Oman, they had holdings south along East Africa, and traded with the Indian subcontinent,
Iraq and Syria? (Babylon and Phoenicia?)
Should Scandinavia be split into a Denmark/Norway and a Sweden? Basically one to go west, and one to go east?
@1SDAN's Civilizations Reborn mod has a good list of new civs to implement, though I think it's better if we hold out until the new map is ready. For me, this is my opinion on some of the civs in the mod as well as a few other suggestions:
Hittites - pre-Greek Anatolia
Celts, Goths - early European peoples, more historical interactions with the Roman Empire and after it
Kushan - for conflict in classical India
Hungary - for the Carpathian basin
Kievan Rus' - for more flavor and dynamics in early eastern Europe
Sweden - definitely, split Scandinavia
Holy Rome* - is it okay if we have like, one civ/city? lol
Islamic Egypt - spawn as early as the Fatimids (918), can work as an Egypt respawn
Oman - historical trading empire, also held parts of the Swahili Coast
Yemen - not sure, though could be, too
Turks - break it up. It's weird seeing a contiguous empire from Anatolia to the Tarim Basin (or is it just me?)
Khazars/Cumans - more interaction between Transoxiana and its north?
Burma - same thoughts as @Vectors
Manchu - another challenge to late China. Can spawn early (1000) as Jurchens and then respawn as Manchus
Vietnam - definitely
Philippines - not sure if we do need this, but we're a separate culture group so idk
Swahili - for the Swahili Coast. Trading center, also competition for Oman
Nigeria - neighbor for the Mali
Zimbabwe - this is the Zulu civ, I suppose
Boers/South Africa - for the later eras
Peru - make it official!
Hi，I added these civilizations to the big map based on the document you modified and Civilizations Reborn mod made，there are some minor problems, but they don't affect the game.
Is this the latest version of the map? It looks too familiar to me, while I already want to forget that...
Yes, This is the latest version. This is a screenshot from last month, now with some modifications.
The new map imo opens up new opportunities for a lot of new civs, but some to me provide a more unique play style and impact on the game than others.
Armenia: Like Tibet and Poland it should be able to be turned off, but there is space for it now. I'd choose Armenia over Georgia if one had to pick between the two, because of its history with religion as well as being an empire at one point.
Iroquois: It's been requested for RFC forever but with the bigger map it's finally time to implement them. I'd like to see more North American First Nations aside from the Iroquois, but I'm not sure how they'd play out. The Iroquois seem to fit into the RFC model best.
Golden Horde: Russia often ends up becoming more powerful than they should early on because their only competition is the short lived Mongols. The Golden Horde was a Mongol successor state that lasted until the early 1500s and even later as Crimea. Russia and the Golden Horde should have a real rivalry that would make Russia more interesting to play.
Scotland: In a similar vein to Russia, England is a very safe civ with its only danger being a scripted Viking conqueror event. With the new map, Scotland has room for a two city core, and they could pose a real danger to England early on.
Guarani/Paraguay: This idea isn't as set in stone for me, but the new South America might have room for them. The idea would be that the Guarani would represent both the Tupi and Guarani and have bonuses to jungle settlements. They could respawn as Paraguay? I don't see what Paraguay has to offer to the table though.
Chile: Major player in South America, very military oriented.
Marathas: It's not right to me that such a huge area as India only has three civs. The Maratha would represent both the Maratha Empire and modern India, with keeping colonizers out and population growth as the main themes.
Punjab/Sikh Empire: Another important area of India to cover, a check on Mughal power. If the Kushans are added, could be a respawn of them.
I love this idea! Also, (I've suggested this before) we could add Sikhism as a late-game religion, maybe discovered with the founding of a late Renaissance era tech like social contract or combined arms (that unlocks the Golden Temple)? It would not be a widely spread religion outside India (perhaps other places during the global era) but it adds a little spice to religious elements in the later-game.
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