What Video Games Have You Been Playing #15: Computer not on fire yet? Better add more mods!

[yung.carl.jung]

I prefer steamed as well. my favorite is probably shock-blanched, then stir fried really hot with some salty & spicy asian sauce. that's the stuff.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

That's some serious roleplaying by the computer if the characters were fooled into thinking you of all people would set a human being on fire.

I don't know what you're implying, sir.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I prefer steamed as well. my favorite is probably shock-blanched, then stir fried really hot with some salty & spicy asian sauce. that's the stuff.

Shock blanch before stir frying...TIL.

 

[Sommerswerd]

hello i am broccoli
put me in hot water
wait
retrieve
now i am become delicious, destroyer of hunger

delicious

I am more likely to steam you, but otherwise agree completely.

+2

I prefer steamed as well. my favorite is probably shock-blanched, then stir fried really hot with some salty & spicy asian sauce. that's the stuff.

+3

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Then don't play the tutorial and get on with the first mission. Did you refund the first game for doing that too?

I said it ALMOST made me do it. I got past it and actually found a game that I enjoyed tremendously and can newer stop praising since. But it is still a black mark on an otherwise superb product which is what makes it stand out all the more and bitterly.

If I saw that sort of stupid decision in an otherwise bad game I wouldn't be complaining to this day. I would just have turned the game off and walked away because it was a bad game and forgotten all about it. But these guys knew better demonstrably by the fact that the game is actually great. Which is what keeps the frustration fresh in my mind.

Its not a loss, because it’s a tightly scripted tutorial. It is all very clearly on rails.

It’s a demonstration pseudo-game so complaints about playability/game design are very very silly.

My entire point is that tightly scripted tutorials are a bad idea because they represent a very bad tool to teach anyone anything for the reasons I explained. And because it is generally frustrating for a player to have control taken away from them in such a jarring way.

Learning any complex system like a game is about experimentation. And yes, you do need hints and instructions to guide that experimentation. But if a tutorial mechanically forces you to take action after action as it demands than you are learning nothing. You do not understand why that action is required. You do not understand the nuance of the system underlying it. All you learn is that it is an action you must take to proceed with the game.

That's like being given a math test and told you had to write down 3 as the solution to problem #1 to get an A. Great. All you learned is that #1 = 3.

A good tutorial would have given you a few turns to muck about with movement and cover and stuff with a flashing objective marker off in the middle distance. And than introduced you to combat once you decide enough is enough it's time to walk over to that marker.

 

[Loerwyn]

Trying out State of Decay 2. It's... another competent game.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I like tutorial campaigns better than scripted tutorials, but some games like Civ 4 have sort of a "tutorial mode" where all the hints and tips popups are enabled and suggested actions get highlighted when you select certain units, menus etc. There's also some games where the tutorial is presented as a "training room", almost like a minigame, like in Metal Gear Solid or Perfect Dark. There's also games where instead of a tutorial per-se, you start out in an very safe, kiddie pool area/level where you get to try things out and get familiar with the controls and the game gradually gets more difficult as you go along. Zelda:Ocarina of Time was like that.

What I prefer generally depends on the type of game I'm playing. For some games I like the hand holding, whereas some games really shine at just tossing you off the deep end and letting you figure it out for yourself.

 

[Takhisis]

hello i am broccoli

put me in hot water

wait

retrieve

now i am become delicious, destroyer of hunger

You know what? Even if you hate hardboiled eggs for some inexplicable reason, I'm going to try some of this. I have to defreeze the family freezer and there's two bags of frozen broccoli. Your proposal (boiling the danged thing) is ridiculous, because it always results in inedible stuff. However, the stir-fry proposal seems acceptable. To keep with the topic, please. A tutorial. What kind of spices, condiments, etc. should be added? Should they be eaten alone or with something else? Elaborate.

I am more likely to steam

Even with malicious editing, I never thought that I'd see you write this.

 

[Senethro]

I said it ALMOST made me do it. I got past it and actually found a game that I enjoyed tremendously and can newer stop praising since. But it is still a black mark on an otherwise superb product which is what makes it stand out all the more and bitterly.

If I saw that sort of stupid decision in an otherwise bad game I wouldn't be complaining to this day. I would just have turned the game off and walked away because it was a bad game and forgotten all about it. But these guys knew better demonstrably by the fact that the game is actually great. Which is what keeps the frustration fresh in my mind.


My entire point is that tightly scripted tutorials are a bad idea because they represent a very bad tool to teach anyone anything for the reasons I explained. And because it is generally frustrating for a player to have control taken away from them in such a jarring way.

Learning any complex system like a game is about experimentation. And yes, you do need hints and instructions to guide that experimentation. But if a tutorial mechanically forces you to take action after action as it demands than you are learning nothing. You do not understand why that action is required. You do not understand the nuance of the system underlying it. All you learn is that it is an action you must take to proceed with the game.

That's like being given a math test and told you had to write down 3 as the solution to problem #1 to get an A. Great. All you learned is that #1 = 3.

A good tutorial would have given you a few turns to muck about with movement and cover and stuff with a flashing objective marker off in the middle distance. And than introduced you to combat once you decide enough is enough it's time to walk over to that marker.

Tutorials are aimed at the low experience users, not the high ones. Those guys can practically teach themselves even in very adverse user interfaces.

To take the example of XCOM series: No, you do not in fact need to know the workings or the nuances or have a detailed understanding to be able to play the Easy difficulty. The tutorial does in fact teach you what you need and you will learn the rest on the job.

This is all as it should be. A developer that can't make software accessible to as wide a range of people as is practical is a bad developer.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I have to defreeze the family freezer

Don't you mean defrost?

Butter and salt go well with steamed broccoli; unless you stir fry it with other goodies.

 

[Takhisis]

Don't you mean defrost?

No. I have to defreeze (or unfreeze) everything that is inside it. The defrosting of the freezer itself shall be conducted by self-appointed experts.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Even with malicious editing, I never thought that I'd see you write this.

Of all the things you've ever done, it is this one that will make me hunt you down like a dog in the next mafia game.

 

[Takhisis]

The answer remains as in the last game: Bring it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The answer remains as in the last game: Bring it.

Ummmm...you do recall being the very first casualty in the last game, right?

 

[Takhisis]

I don't want to spoil the fun, but you're not allowed to discuss ongoing games.

 

[Snerk]

What is dead may never die.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

You know what? Even if you hate hardboiled eggs for some inexplicable reason, I'm going to try some of this. I have to defreeze the family freezer and there's two bags of frozen broccoli. Your proposal (boiling the danged thing) is ridiculous, because it always results in inedible stuff. However, the stir-fry proposal seems acceptable. To keep with the topic, please. A tutorial. What kind of spices, condiments, etc. should be added? Should they be eaten alone or with something else? Elaborate.

of course, glad you ask. my favorite dish with stir fried broccoli is beef broccoli, so Ill go with that. cut a steak into thin strips. I don't use the good parts here, usually hip or flank work best. just don't use breast or something tough like that. marinate the beef pieces in soy sauce, garlic, ginger, shaoxing wine (just leave it out of you don't have chinese cooking wine) and a small amount of rice vinegar. cover and place in the fridge for 1 hour or as long as you gosh darn like. in a small bowl, mix soy sauce, a bit of cornstarch, mirin or white sugar, oyster sauce (or worcestershire, fish sauce), hoisin sauce (if you don't have any throw in one star anise) until everything is dissolved. prep is done at this points

bring a pot of water to boil. salt generously after achieving roiling boil. cut broccoli into bite-sized pieces. throw in the pot for about 30 seconds to 1 minute, depending on how big your chunks are. fish them out with a spider or a sieve, then run the under ice cold water. leave to dry.

in a steaming hot wok (any pan works, but you have to shake it a lot!) add the beef and brown it for about 45 seconds. then add your broccoli and throw around for another 30 seconds. add your sauce and take off the heat. let it sit until the broccoli is tender. serve over rice

this is a more chinese OG recipe: https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2015/03/stir-fry-beef-with-broccoli-gai-lan-easy-recipe.html

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Spoiler :

I hate sirens.

 

[Birdjaguar]

No. I have to defreeze (or unfreeze) everything that is inside it. The defrosting of the freezer itself shall be conducted by self-appointed experts.

Then the word you want is "thaw". As in "Thaw the contents of the freezer."

 

[Sommerswerd]

Elaborate.

Get yourself one of these (bamboo steamer):

1. put broccoli pieces in the trays/baskets, lightly sprinkle salt on it
2. boil a inch of water in a pot
3. stack the trays on the boiling pot
4. put the basket top on
5. wait 5 minutes
6. lift the top - if the broccoli is bright green (it will be) its ready, take it off the heat and serve.

Same process works for most veggies, carrots, squash, onion, green beans, brussels sprouts, etc.