What would a basic income do?

[Mouthwash]

Every citizen gets $10,000 a year, no strings attached. What happens?

 

[Peck of Arabia]

the economy grinds to a halt as incentive goes out the window?

Oh, is this in addition to any other income they earn? In which case inflation sky-rockets.

Maybe that's a tad unfair; best wait for an economist to turn up

 

[GenMarshall]

Well, everyone would be in poverty since $10k/year is $4.81/hr.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Goods are re-priced to reflect upon the reality that everyone has 10k, which means that food now would cost 500 dollars or something to these words.

 

[Borachio]

Stimulus to the economy. Everyone prospers.

And the elites don't like that.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Dunno. Wouldn't the mysterious corporate overlord fat-cats also obtain basic income?

 

[Kyriakos]

Way too much greed displayed by a few (likely less than 0,1% of the population) who are mega-rich. I find it very un-natural for a person to want far more money that he can realistically need to have a decent house, a sustainable budget, and maybe some basic luxury.

 

[amadeus]

I'm still not sure how you're supposed to increase consumption without increasing production. Or is this about spreading it around? Because I've seen it being sold as "well, it won't really cost us anything" by the basic incommies on the internet.

 

[Kyriakos]

A main issue currently (and likely since ww2) is that most of the higher-end (price-wise) products are deliberately made in a way which has them not lasting very long, so the customer will have to buy a new version of the same thing a few years later. Computers and other electronics are a good example of that, but not the only one by far.

 

[Mouthwash]

Was sort of hoping for more sophisticated answers, but short OPs are always hit and miss.

 

[bhsup]

Every citizen gets $10,000 a year, no strings attached. What happens?

Lazy citizens get married and pop out as many citizens as possible so they can collect the $10K for every citizen they are parents to.

 

[Mouthwash]

Right, the person shouldn't be a minor.

 

[Borachio]

I'm still not sure how you're supposed to increase consumption without increasing production. Or is this about spreading it around? Because I've seen it being sold as "well, it won't really cost us anything" by the basic incommies on the internet.

Increasing the money supply to the poorest, who will always spend it, stimulates production directly. The more a manufacturer sells of a product the more they are incentivized to produce. What do you think the poorest are going to spend it on? Stuff that can't be produced in increasing amounts?

Not that I think increasing consumer good production is necessarily a good idea. But that's another question. This one is about what would happen if a basic income was introduced.

 

[warpus]

Yeah, minors don't get the cash, just adults who are of working age.

$10k isn't nearly enough to sustain yourself, so a basic income of $10k would probably be a failure. You need to make it high enough for it to be equivalent to some sort of level of living where you can afford food, shelter, and the necessities.

But low enough for most people to want to work on top of that income and make more. So you don't make it $50k, because then a lot of people would just sit on their butts. I don't know what you make it exactly, it depends, but you get the idea. The incentive has to remain there for most people to want to work to make more. Nobody likes living on the bare minimum standard of living, right? Some people will do it, so the key is to balance the amount to something that will maximize people wanting more, while still giving them enough to get by.

Basic income is basically a replacement for the welfare system, not free money to give to people just because. It's supposed to remove large chunks of poverty (nobody's going to be on the street anymore, homeless, and not being able to feed themselves, etc.) and is usually supposed to be more efficient than the welfare and charity systems at achieving that. Since first of all they're not even achieving that at all right now.. and second of all it's supposed to actually be much cheaper than a welfare & charity system large enough to accommodate everybody.

So that's what it's supposed to accomplish. By removing pockets of poverty in society, it just makes everything.. better. You know what happens to run down parts of town. Properties aren't maintained, people turn to crime for money, and so on. Crime will always be appealing, and sitting on your butt as well, to some people, but basic income is about scaling. It's not about individual people, it's about society as a whole. On such a large scale, the promise is that it's supposed to work very well and give you many benefits, without really putting a much larger burden on anyone at all, than what it is done now. In theory it should reduce healthcare costs, welfare costs, police costs, and many other costs we have in society that in some part are related to poverty and the things that come with it. That's why it's not a stupid idea, you actually might be able to get more out of it than the money you put in, without really affecting anyone in society in a negative way.

 

[Colonel]

hmm, Would destroy alot of people's want to be productive. Two people could pop out three kids and be living on 50k a year. The system would fail within the first couple years of implementation.

 

[Mouthwash]

$10k isn't nearly enough to sustain yourself, so a basic income of $10k would probably be a failure. You need to make it high enough for it to be equivalent to some sort of level of living where you can afford food, shelter, and the necessities.

Why? It's aimed at the poor who can use the money to be more productive, not to eliminate homelessness.

hmm, Would destroy alot of people's want to be productive. Two people could pop out three kids and be living on 50k a year. The system would fail within the first couple years of implementation.

Thanks for reading the entire page.

 

[Tahuti]

Goods are re-priced to reflect upon the reality that everyone has 10k, which means that food now would cost 500 dollars or something to these words.

Well, exactly this. Or wages have to decrease. Either way, it will have accomplished nothing and will be politically impossible to revert the democratic way, similar to these food subsidies in Arab countries, only worse.

 

[Borachio]

What's special about Arab countries' food subsidies?

Didn't the EU have food subsidies for a very long time, through CAP? And don't they now have subsidies payable directly to people just for owning land? And isn't this even worse?

 

[gay_Aleks]

Also, from where would the money come? If we take USA, with 300m+ inhabitants, that would be three trillion dollars on top the current expenses you're experiencing.

Although, I guess "make more money so that we give you even more money" model would work.

 

[Colonel]

Why? It's aimed at the poor who can use the money to be more productive, not to eliminate homelessness.



Thanks for reading the entire page.

I had read the whole page. I chose to ignore that you all said minors wouldn't get the income because as a practical matter you would have to. Either that or maintain a welfare system for the parents of those children. This isn't so cut and dry to say give everyone 10k or whatever amount you decide on and all is well. At best even if this system were to work it would take a generation to reduce the crime involved with low-income people. More likely though, low-income criminals would start using the money for criminal activities which would only increase the crime rates. Then you have to think about the low income wage earners who are making only slightly above that basic income line, do they get the money too? If not I'd bet they would quit their jobs as it wouldn't make a difference.

Next, Inflation. Yes poor people if used correctly spend 99% of their income thus improving consumption but if this is a basic income for everyone then prices would go up, if its only for the jobless then your unemployment rate goes up.

Collectively, to expect this system to work in any sense is a Utopian pipe dream.