When was the first time you've had Alcohol?

[Masquerouge]

There are people who can drink it with cation and not overdo it, but they tend to be the minority.

No, they don't. The vast majority of people who drink have no issues with alcohol.

 

[Cannae]

More utter nonsense.

If that beleif suits you then very well.

But "overwhelmingly the worst drug known to humanity"? That's a bit hysterical. The only advantage booze has in the "worst drug" category is its ubiquity. If cocaine were as common, it'd do more damage than booze has. If any opiate were as common, it'd do more damage. Amphetamines. Benzodiazepines. They're much, much worse than alcohol, health-wise. And opiates have caused just as much drama on the world stage - look at the Opium Wars, look at Afghanistan today. Consider the cigarette! That one can kill people that don't even use it!

I never said that other drugs don't impact the world negatively. I can agree that if all those other drugs were as common that they would do simmilar damage.

But they are not, plus alcohol can be created out of any rotting fruit and even most plants. Whereas other drugs have one or a few certain source(s). Alcohol can also kill others who don't abuse it too.

For one, I think it's absurd to try to crown a king. Then, if you are going to, alcohol sure ain't the only contender.

I beg to differ, as alcohol can and does cause more damage than any other drug that's commonly abused.

Plus from the poll it looks like the most people began to drink when they before they were at least 18. People are much more likely to become alcoholics when they choose to drink before their twenties.

No, they don't. The vast majority of people who drink have no issues with alcohol.

Maybe, but the majority of people who choose to drink begin in their teens, which more often than not will result in alcoholism.

 

[Cato the Elder]

Alcohol cannot directly kill anyone but the user. You can be hit by a drunk driver, or knifed by a drunk agressor, but the alcohol the other person consumed isn't what's going to kill you. Tobacco, however, can, due to the smoke being exhaled and then reinhaled by a non-smoker.

Also, I don't think cocaine or opiates ought to be so hard to make given the correct plants, information, and appropriate amount of time. Not quite as easy, no, but still not exaggeratedly difficult.

What's your definition on commonly abused? You're right here, if you only count alcohol and tobacco as common, but otherwise you're rather off there buddy.

Also, give me a source on drinking before 20s/alcoholism correlation.

 

[Mirc]

Maybe, but the majority of people who choose to drink begin in their teens, which more often than not will result in alcoholism.

LOLWUT?? Simple maths for the rescue:

If the majority of the people began drinking in their teens, and those drinking in their teens have a chance of becoming alcoholics of over 50% ("more often than not"), then what you are saying is that 25% to 100% of the people who drink are alcoholics. Do you have any idea what you are talking about??



Clarification: the 25% and 100% are approximations. The right number would be 25%+2 individuals (since there must be a majority twice) to 100%-2 individuals (since you didn't say "all" but "most" in both cases).

 

[uppi]

By the way: How much alcohol does a drink need to count as a sip for the poll? A lot of "non-alcoholic" food has a small amount of alcohol content.

And if we're going by "drinks usually labeled as alcoholic drinks": traditionally beer isn't an alcoholic drink in Bavaria, but a basic food item

 

[azzaman333]

Maybe, but the majority of people who choose to drink begin in their teens, which more often than not will result in alcoholism.

So, more than 50% of people who drink before the age of 20 will become alcoholics?

Somehow, I doubt that.

 

[jeps]

SS, can I see a source for all of this please? I am very interested in where this is coming from.

 

[LucyDuke]

If that beleif suits you then very well.

I never said that other drugs don't impact the world negatively. I can agree that if all those other drugs were as common that they would do simmilar damage.

But they are not, plus alcohol can be created out of any rotting fruit and even most plants. Whereas other drugs have one or a few certain source(s). Alcohol can also kill others who don't abuse it too.

I beg to differ, as alcohol can and does cause more damage than any other drug that's commonly abused.

All you've got is volume. If all you're going to argue is volume, I can't disagree, but I think volume is a pretty crappy measure.

(Most things would do a lot more nasty than booze.)

Plus from the poll it looks like the most people began to drink when they before they were at least 18. People are much more likely to become alcoholics when they choose to drink before their twenties.

Maybe, but the majority of people who choose to drink begin in their teens, which more often than not will result in alcoholism.

"Gateway drug" fallacy.

 

[Syterion]

View Post
But "overwhelmingly the worst drug known to humanity"? That's a bit hysterical. The only advantage booze has in the "worst drug" category is its ubiquity. If cocaine were as common, it'd do more damage than booze has. If any opiate were as common, it'd do more damage. Amphetamines. Benzodiazepines. They're much, much worse than alcohol, health-wise. And opiates have caused just as much drama on the world stage - look at the Opium Wars, look at Afghanistan today. Consider the cigarette! That one can kill people that don't even use it!

I don't like all the coke hate. People think it's way more serious than it is. It's about as addictive as alcohol (some people put it as less addictive), and the effects do not necessarily cause more damage to your health, just different effects. I think it's about as easy to kill yourself with coke as it is with alcohol. The real problem is finding coke that isn't laced. (Actually, you can usually get unlaced coke the first time, but the more you come back the more they lace it, because people chase that first high) If coke was more common, it would be just as safe as alcohol.

Now heroin and meth, those are drugs that deserve a rap. Lets give credit where its due.

 

[LucyDuke]

Oh, I'm not hating on the coke. I'm not as confident as you are about its overall safety though, I haven't seen enough convincing evidence.

 

[Mirc]

So, more than 50% of people who drink before the age of 20 will become alcoholics?

Somehow, I doubt that.

Beat you to it:

LOLWUT?? Simple maths for the rescue:

If the majority of the people began drinking in their teens, and those drinking in their teens have a chance of becoming alcoholics of over 50% ("more often than not"), then what you are saying is that 25% to 100% of the people who drink are alcoholics. Do you have any idea what you are talking about??



Clarification: the 25% and 100% are approximations. The right number would be 25%+2 individuals (since there must be a majority twice) to 100%-2 individuals (since you didn't say "all" but "most" in both cases).

Which means that if we were a standard population sample, 33 to 135 of the people who voted are alcoholics!!!! Good to know what you think about your fellow members, Slavic Sioux!

 

[Cannae]

Beat you to it:

Which means that if we were a standard population sample, 33 to 135 of the people who voted are alcoholics!!!! Good to know what you think about your fellow members, Slavic Sioux!

Sorry I couldn't get to responding on time. But here's some incriminating facts. But also yes assuming that they are being honest then yes that really may be the case.

BAM!

Spoiler :

Young people who begin drinking before age 15 are four times more likely to develop alcoholism than those who begin drinking at 21.5
http://www.marininstitute.org/Youth/alcohol_youth.htm

Need More?

BTW I never said that I dislike alcoholics, I am just stating that it really does harm people.

 

[azzaman333]

Sorry I couldn't get to responding on time. But here's some incriminating facts. But also yes assuming that they are being honest then yes that really may be the case.

BAM!

Young people who begin drinking before age 15 are four times more likely to develop alcoholism than those who begin drinking at 21.5
http://www.marininstitute.org/Youth/alcohol_youth.htm

Need More?

BTW I never said that I dislike alcoholics, I am just stating that it really does harm people.

That's very different to 50% of everyone who drinks as a teen becomes an alcoholic.

And that is only for the US. What about the statistics for other countries?

 

[Mowque]

besides, what IS a alcoholic? Is their a scientific/physical/medical definition or is it all opinion?

 

[Bigfoot3814]

besides, what IS a alcoholic? Is their a scientific/physical/medical definition or is it all opinion?

1. Are you an alcoholic?

Yes.

You need help.

2. Are you an alcoholic?

No.

Denial, first sign. You need help.

 

[Cato the Elder]

That's very different to 50% of everyone who drinks as a teen becomes an alcoholic.

And that is only for the US. What about the statistics for other countries?

And plus, there is a major difference between "under 15" and "under legal American drinking age". Most people start drinking between their 15 and 21, and most of them end up doing so in moderation. (outside of several too drunk nights, but those're exceptions, not rules)

 

[Cannae]

That's very different to 50% of everyone who drinks as a teen becomes an alcoholic.

Alright fine, but eather way the chances are much greater if you drink before 21 (this is around the time your brain is able to handle more sizable amounts).

And that is only for the US. What about the statistics for other countries?

I don't know to be honest but it probably is very similar for most nations.

besides, what IS a alcoholic? Is their a scientific/physical/medical definition or is it all opinion?

From wiki

The Journal of the American Medical Association defines alcoholism as "a primary, chronic disease characterized by impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking."

And plus, there is a major difference between "under 15" and "under legal American drinking age". Most people start drinking between their 15 and 21, and most of them end up doing so in moderation.

That may be true for you but I know in a community where alcohol is astronomically rampant and having family members who decided to drink it's obvious that it my start as a mild "let's have fun thing" but then it gets nasty.

If you drink it longly enough and consistently it will get you hooked. Plus, many of these teens have little to no concept of "moderation" when it comes to drinking.

 

[Mowque]

The Journal of the American Medical Association defines alcoholism as "a primary, chronic disease characterized by impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking."

But what does that mean exactly?

*points down* Still doesn't mean i can't understand and warn against a STD

 

[Elta]

If you drink it longly enough and consistently it will get you hooked.

I am, mean this with all due respect.

You don't drink, thus you have no idea what you are talking about.

It's like getting sex advice from a virgin.

 

[azzaman333]

Alright fine, but eather way the chances are much greater if you drink before 21 (this is around the time your brain is able to handle more sizable amounts).

But you don't have data to support that claim.

I don't know to be honest but it probably is very similar for most nations.

I doubt that. I would suspect (although I don't have evidence to prove it) that lower drinking ages would have the same issues for those who start drinking before 15 (drinking being more than just a sip, or a glass with dinner). Those who start drinking over the age of 15, the issues would be reduced by lower drinking ages.