Where to find an "AI tech priority" list?

[pi-r8]

Ok, where to start ...

Scenario 1.

There is a BIG flaw in your reasoning, that is to think that you can beeline to a enemy cap unharmed just like that. You can do that against the current AI, but that is just because you know they will most likely not attack you. Otherwise, would you take the risk to take your armies out of your territory to rush another player? Second, a competent oponent would know ages ago what you are doing, so in the moment you declared war they would be waitng for you. Third, in the moment you enter a enemy territory you are a sitting duck due to the extreme advantages the game rules give to active defense, so beelining to the enemy cap will surely put you in danger and you can only pull it out because the Civ IV is not that tactically gifted as that ( well, it beats the crap of a lot of humans ), but in games where the two warring parties are both tactically gifted you will see that the attacking part has huge issues to stay unharmed as soon as it enters enemy territory. Worse, the Civ III AI already had the bad habit of beelining for inner cities and that was extremely exploitable ( and exploited ). Go to the Civ III forums, search "kill zones" and see what I mean.... Fourth, if ALL the players in game did that ( remember, there are more than one AI and they do not cooperate to piss you off ) the sucess rate of that strat would be pretty low, most likely far lower than simply stay idle. Fifth, have you ever considered that a rush like that can fail by pure bad luck? And what after? You are left with a cripled empire with little pop and not much of techs against a enemy that is basically untouched ( because of your decision of going straight to cap ) ... IMHO that is a huge risk and should not be taken as lightly as that

Bear in mind all the research and production bonuses that the AI gets on higher levels. If an emperor+ level AI used this strategy I don't think it would be possible to stop- you just wouldn't have time to get enough good units ready to stop them.

 

[r_rolo1]

First, you are assuming the AI will always target you Given that there is a lot more AI players in game than humans in SP, that is by far speculative at best. Second, the handicaps are not part of the AI, so you should not bring them to a discussion if a certain strategical idea for the AI is valid ( said in other words, the AI was not done to play on emperor, or in any other level ... and it is good that it isn't like that, because it would underperform in other levels ) ... it is the same as musing about coding the AI to always use nukes in turn 0 because you made a level that gives some free ICBM to every AI. Third, and more important, you are seriously underestimating the power of active defense...

 

[pi-r8]

First, you are assuming the AI will always target you Given that there is a lot more AI players in game than humans in SP, that is by far speculative at best. Second, the handicaps are not part of the AI, so you should not bring them to a discussion if a certain strategical idea for the AI is valid ( said in other words, the AI was not done to play on emperor, or in any other level ... and it is good that it isn't like that, because it would underperform in other levels ) ... it is the same as musing about coding the AI to always use nukes in turn 0 because you made a level that gives some free ICBM to every AI. Third, and more important, you are seriously underestimating the power of active defense...

ok so you get targeted 1/2 the time, maybe more than that if there's a lot of warmongers. not fair if you instantly die 1/2 the time. I'm just assuming that the handicaps stay the same... if you want to talk about some hypothetical situation where the AI does not have handicaps than you have to say that.

As for active defense, what are you going to actively defend with if the AI comes charging in like that in 1000BC? You won't have catapults yet, because the AI would have beelined construction, and with its handicaps, it WILL get there before you. MAYBE you could have 10 horse archers, if you've got horses, and devote your whole early game to getting them ready in time. Even then, that might not be enough, if you program the AI to be smart about bringing spearmen and sticking to defensive terrain.

 

[r_rolo1]

Read again the example I am responding to. It is clearly a recipe for a axe rush. A axe rush can be crushed easily with chariots , or even axes ( especially given that those axes will be most likely not promoted to shock ).

I do not need to talk about hypotetical situations where the AI is not handicapped... there is Settler, Chieftain and Warlord ,where the human is the one with the biggest share of bonuses. The AI also has to perform there, you know...

 

[Orzio]

Read again the example I am responding to. It is clearly a recipe for a axe rush. A axe rush can be crushed easily with chariots , or even axes ( especially given that those axes will be most likely not promoted to shock ).

I do not need to talk about hypotetical situations where the AI is not handicapped... there is Settler, Chieftain and Warlord ,where the human is the one with the biggest share of bonuses. The AI also has to perform there, you know...

Dosnt the AI still have lots of bonuses even or warlord?

 

[r_rolo1]

Yes it has some bonuses in every level, even on settler. I didn't said it didn't had, though I said the human had more .....

 

[PartAnon]

What I do know is that there ARE several warmonger AI's and on Emperor level they DO like to attack with axes, swords, catapults, horse archers, etc, etc. I've been beaten that way a bunch of times. Nowadays I build enough of a defensive force to discourage them and as a result they typically leave me alone or pick on easier targets. If they do decide to attack you can usually see it coming a mile away and can prepare for it. It's quite defensible (read the whole thread). The main issues for me revolve around are whether or not you can go on the offensive at some point, and if not, how far the war will set you back in your research. And then there's diplomacy..

Anyway, to bring back the topic of the OP, the AI can and often do research military techs. And, as I've gathered from the thread, this is why on higher levels we often hear about players researching down the Aesthetics path and trading with those techs.

 

[PartAnon]

Yes it has some bonuses in every level, even on settler. I didn't said it didn't had, though I said the human had more .....

And this goes back to the AI being dumb . It IS dumb and if you really get into the game you'll be able to beat it on progressively higher levels (assuming you're not also dumb ).

 

[r_rolo1]

You also have some bonuses on the AI, the biggest one being the fact you have a memory That does not make you dumb , right?

 

[pi-r8]

Read again the example I am responding to. It is clearly a recipe for a axe rush. A axe rush can be crushed easily with chariots , or even axes ( especially given that those axes will be most likely not promoted to shock ).

I do not need to talk about hypotetical situations where the AI is not handicapped... there is Settler, Chieftain and Warlord ,where the human is the one with the biggest share of bonuses. The AI also has to perform there, you know...

if the AI really did a hardcore axe rush, it would be even worse. If you don't have horses, you're completely dead, and even with them a few spears will stop the chariots.

sorry, i didn't realize you played on settler-warlord . My advice is to build more workers, and then move up to a level that poses something of a challenge. His strategies would basically make the upper levels impossible.

 

[r_rolo1]

if the AI really did a hardcore axe rush, it would be even worse. If you don't have horses, you're completely dead, and even with them a few spears will stop the chariots.

sorry, i didn't realize you played on settler-warlord . My advice is to build more workers, and then move up to a level that poses something of a challenge. His strategies would basically make the upper levels impossible.

I pay to see that. Better, I chalenge him to code that ( or get someone to do that fro him ), send me the dll and I'll run it on a public game. You will see a very sad show of a dozen of AI in a war frenzy that would make monty look like a peacenik techer killing eachother while I would be defending until I have the upper hand in tech and smash them like a bug. Unlike you seem to be assuming I can win a OCC AW in Emperor via conquest and only lose by nukes in Immortal in the same conditions, so i guess I have qualifications for warring against the handicaps . Atleast I would notice any axe rush far earlier and those axes would face fortified shock axes in the way if I couldn't put a good deal of flanking chariots mauling that stack to redlined status as it marched straight to my cap.

And when I said that the AI also had to play in settler-warlord, I meant exactly that. If you design a AI strategy that bases in using the handicaps of higher levels, it will underperform in lower levels. I thinked that was so obvious that didn't needed further explanation...

 

[Ataxerxes]

One area the AI is weak on, as has been noted elsewhere, is its general conduct of war.

Sorry to post off-topic.

Thanks, Kirby-Tron. I always thought it was me on Age of Mythology when I got killed on moderate when I owned the hardest level on Age of Empires II.

 

[Orzio]

One area the AI is weak on, as has been noted elsewhere, is its general conduct of war.

Sorry to post off-topic.

Thanks, Kirby-Tron. I always thought it was me on Age of Mythology when I got killed on moderate when I owned the hardest level on Age of Empires II.

Yeh the AI just get worse and worse doing war the later the game go. Modern/future era they are just plain bad.

 

[PartAnon]

I pay to see that. Better, I chalenge him to code that ( or get someone to do that fro him ), send me the dll and I'll run it on a public game.

This, I want to see... Actually I'm kind of surprised that this hasn't been done before. Or has it?

 

[mintegar]

SB surprising me by teching Physics before Education:

How does the AI think that's a good choice? Is the tech-cost not taken into account in the evaluation?

 

[Um the Muse]

hmm. You might want to sell/ trade Liberalism. Those boys have a lot of gold, burning holes in their pockets, there.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm guessing that Physics might count as a military tech. If you're not going to build Oxford, then Education isn't all that great. Especially without any chance of getting a free tech from Liberalism.

 

[civvver]

Once someone has reached liberalism they AI places very low value on it and with good reason. It unlocks communism, a strong civic option for the player, as well as free religion, another strong civic option, but AIs are coded to prefer certain civics anyway.

 

[Lone Wolf]

No the AI isn't stupid. It was either deliberatly nerfed or poorly coded.

Some AI's are definitely worse then other. Compare a Wang Kon or a Victoria (or, worse, Tokugawa) with the likes of Justinian or Zara.

SB surprising me by teching Physics before Education:

Will he research Electricity next? If so, another example of Electricity before Rifling (and Education!)

 

[mintegar]

hmm. You might want to sell/ trade Liberalism. Those boys have a lot of gold, burning holes in their pockets, there.

Had some of the AIs in different religion, didn't trade them Lib to keep that this way as long as possible.

As for why SB valued Physics so highly, i'm guessing he made the decision to go for it before I was finished researching it. So he might have thought he had a chance to get it first for high trade value. Also that it leads to Electricity with allows Broadway wonder will have caused it to appear very valuable to him.

It's still very stupid, after all he is Philosophical which means half price Universities.