Which is the most useless unit?

[jaythewise]

Wow, single players here lol, crossbowmen are huge in multiplayer, one of the most underated units in the game behind the mother of all ass kicking units the redmen.

I ALWAYS put in a extra crossbowmen in my frontier cities and send a few with a good stack of macemen.

ironclads are pretty useless in that they only last a few hundred years

 

[Jarrod32]

It is interesting that the units that are being discussed most - crossbows, ironclads, explorers - all have their particular niche.

I don't build a lot of crossbows, and in fact don't build any in many games. But...if I am next to Japan...you can bet that I will build several of them to include in my defensive forces.

Someone mentioned marines...I tend to like infantry a bit better, too...but...if you're dealing with Germany, Marines with Combat II/Ambush are Panzer killers...catch the Panzers in the open field, and smash 'em (you don't want to use tanks against Panzers, of course). Though Infantry with Combat II/Ambush can be effective against Panzers, as well.

I would probably vote for Explorers or Ironclads as the most useless...but again, several people have shown where Explorers can be useful (certain maps, for example). And even I have been known - in certain situations - to have a few Ironclads guarding my seafood resources.

I suppose the ultimate point is that every unit has it's place...even the most useless unit can be very useful in certain circumstances, which in turn gives you good options for different playstyles. Which is probably a credit to the balance put into the game by the game designers.

 

[beestar]

I usually have caravels for quite some time before getting galleons. In any case, they are the only unit that can explore everywhere. No open borders needed and no coastal restrictions. Caravels are great for spreading religion.

I don't remember - can you sail a caravel into an enemy city? And if so, can the missionary inside convert the city? (Assuming you don't have Open Borders with the other civ)

 

[Archbob]

The Ironclad has saved me more than once. I haven't really used the explorer.

But my vote goes to the Cho-Ko-Nu, probably the most useless special unit in the game.

 

[rewster1]

Any UU that is in any way better than the unit it replaces is not a useless unit. Unless the unit it replaces is, so you do have an argument with musketeers. But Chokonus are much better than xbows, and xbows do have their usefulness (I don't play multiplayer as of yet but I have to imagine they are basically required there).
Jaguars are the only UU that are weaker than what they replace. unless you are defending in a jungle (random??) or you were unlucky and didn't get iron... so even jaguars are not completely useless, all the time. Just most of the time when you do get iron and would rather have that plus 1 strength over the 25% jungle bonus (again... wth?).

I stand by my claim that all settlers after the first are completely and utterly worthless in an OCC game.

 

[Empiremaker]

Jaguar. Still, in most cases axes are better than swords, so that isn't a reduction to a terribly important unit. I've used ironclads to sink enemy frigates that the AI sent to pillage my fishing boats. Field medic is good for explorer.

Unlike Civ III there are no "useless" UU's or units. In Civ III F-15, Man-o-war and conquistadores were pointless UU's. The Explorer in Civ III was a pillager. In Civ IV all units have a use.

One main complaint about naval war in vanilla Civ III was how short the Age of Sail was. Ironclads came 2-3 techs later and were superior in every way. In C3C Ironclads came with their own tech and were slower. Still, if you were engaged in naval warfare Ironclads quickly became your main unit, and otherwise combat naval units are pointless. I like how they did the ironclad in Civ IV, except that it doesn't last long enough.

 

[Mista]

I had said Crossbows, but i havent tried them. Would have, this game, but had no ironl.. . Caravels are higly useful -- in their niche. You can enter anyone's territory, not needing open borders. Yes, even into the cities. But the missionary on board cannot leave the ship unless you do have open borders.
Ironclads? Good coastal defense.

 

[Nefelia]

Mining --> Bronze Working --> Iron Working --> Metal Casting --> Machinery

vrs

Mysticism --> Meditation --> Priesthood --> Polythiesm --> Monothiesm --> Monarchy --> Feudalism

If you are looking for an early military advantage, Crossbowmen are two tachnologies away from Iron Working, which you'll be getting anyway for your swordsmen.

Even a peace-nik will have Bronze working, and maybe Iron working if there is no copper on his land. Who wouldn't want to have Crossbow city defenders while everyone else has archers?

Of course, play style has a lot to do with the decision as well. I usually go for the Bureaucracy/Caste System civics, and prefer to ignore religions until I capture a holy city. So all of the religious techs are useless to me, and even Feudalism is relatively useless since I won't be using the civics it opens up for me. Since I'll be getting Metal Casting anyway (I love my forges), why not get that extra tech to get a substitute for longbowmen. Besides, I was under the impression that the best city attackers in the early game are melee units (Swordsmen/Macemen).

 

[Mad Professor]

Scout, a.k.a Puma feed. It always gets eaten by animals or beaten by barbarians. Always.

Not always. I found scouts with woodman II VERY useful in a tropical climate, and if they are attacked in a jungle, they most often survive a barbarian warrior attack, and then they can run away through that jungle a lot faster than the barbarian can follow

 

[Mad Professor]

Why are ironclads so useless? Yeah I know they are a waste in quick/normal games, but in epic/marathon, and if you're going down the war end of the tech tree, they are awfully useful for defense. NOTHING at this time can survive an ironclad, so I usually use them as a defense for my coastal cities. .

Ahhh. I did wonder why on earth Ironclads when destroyers become available so soon afterwards, and I can't imagine anything more frustrating than not being able to leave the coast in that era. On the other hand, if you're playing epic or marathon (which I have never yet done!!) that would increase greatly the ironclad reign as a useful boat. I should play an epic or marathon and see for myself huh?

 

[rewster1]

Mining --> Bronze Working --> Iron Working --> Metal Casting --> Machinery

vrs

Mysticism --> Meditation --> Priesthood --> Polythiesm --> Monothiesm --> Monarchy --> Feudalism

Um, no?
Mining --> Bronze Working --> Iron Working --> fishing--> wheel--> pottery--> Metal Casting --> Machinery
vs.
Mysticism --> Meditation --> Priesthood -->writing --> Polythiesm --> Monothiesm --> Monarchy --> Feudalism

You left out the need for pottery to get metal casting, and writing for feudalism, and put in both of the either/or prereqs for monarchy. Also you don't need iron working for metal casting. However, you do need it for xbows, as well as hunting --> archery, which is also required for lbows.

You can use an engineer to lightbulb machinery once you have metal casting, so there is potential for a slingshot effect and it can be a quick one if you built the pyramids for an early engineer. This is in my opinion what makes crossbows attractive, along with the fact that forges will help you pump them out better.

 

[Nefelia]

Thanks for clearing that up. I posted from work, and had no way to verify in a timely manner. Of course, wheel, pottery and fishing/agriculture tend to be essentials regardless of which playing style one chooses, and the point I made is still valid: depending on one's research preferences, Crossbows can come along long before Longbowmen.

Of course, I tend to play with no tech trading, so I have to choose my research path wisely.

 

[blid]

voted for muskets (other). The only advantage I see to them is u can upgrade for rifles cheaper. Same stands for ironclads -> destroyers but on ocassions they are useful protecting my fishboats while AI was around with a couple of frigates

 

[Zombie69]

I voted for the gunship, because it's the latest unit you've listed, and therefore it has the most chance of never even coming into play, making it useless.

Personally, i've only once played a game with cavalry or higher, and the most advanced unit i think was not even rifleman. I just don't enjoy games past a certain point.

 

[Dueck]

I can never tie up a game very quickly... often I have to get down into modern armour.

I'd also like to repeal my selection of ironclad... they're useful in small doses

 

[Xanikk999]

Jaguar hands down. The +25 jungle defense doesnt cut it sorry. Axemen are better then them and thats saying alot considering they are supposed to replace swordsmen.

They dont require resources but so what. I never find myself without iron or copper ever. And you cant plan for not having the resource. Please spare me the comments defending jaguars. They REALLY need to improve them in the next patch. They should get a enhanced version of the swordsmens city raider trait to be useful.

 

[Xanikk999]

I dont see how anybody could vote for war elephants and macemen being the most useless. I frequently use war elephents in almost every game and macemen are just terrific. War elephents beat everything else until knights and are equal to macement. Not to mention they get a bonus against mounted units.

 

[Kenji]

War Elephants isnt worse than Knights....

8 vs 10.
+50% vs mount.
will make it 8 vs 7.5

War Elephants should have the upper hand...

 

[Dueck]

Kenji, does the % modifier affect the attacker or defender? In either case:

Base*(100% + modifier1 + modifier2....) = Final

Elephant 8*(1 + 0.5) = 12 ; versus Knight base 10
or
Knight 10*(1 - 0.5) = 5 ; versus War Elephant base 8

 

[Sahkuhnder]

I don't remember - can you sail a caravel into an enemy city? And if so, can the missionary inside convert the city? (Assuming you don't have Open Borders with the other civ)

No, that doesn't work as the missionary can't unload from the caravel without an open borders agreement.