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Which is the most useless unit?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by benjai, Feb 3, 2006.

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Which is the most useless/pointless unit?

  1. Skirmisher

    10 vote(s)
    1.6%
  2. Crossbowman

    36 vote(s)
    5.8%
  3. Marine

    19 vote(s)
    3.0%
  4. Gunship

    17 vote(s)
    2.7%
  5. Warrior

    19 vote(s)
    3.0%
  6. Jaguar

    50 vote(s)
    8.0%
  7. Axeman

    1 vote(s)
    0.2%
  8. Maceman

    3 vote(s)
    0.5%
  9. Samurai

    2 vote(s)
    0.3%
  10. Phalanx

    18 vote(s)
    2.9%
  11. Chariot

    45 vote(s)
    7.2%
  12. Keshik

    4 vote(s)
    0.6%
  13. Camel Archer

    7 vote(s)
    1.1%
  14. War Elephant

    6 vote(s)
    1.0%
  15. Explorer

    137 vote(s)
    21.9%
  16. Caravel

    15 vote(s)
    2.4%
  17. Ironclad

    226 vote(s)
    36.2%
  18. Submarine

    42 vote(s)
    6.7%
  19. Explorer

    139 vote(s)
    22.2%
  20. Other

    36 vote(s)
    5.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,089
    Location:
    London, UK
    AFAIR It's nothing to do with the attacker or defender. It modifies the unit it's applied to, irrespective of whether that unit is attacking or defending. So elephant vs knight will see

    elephant strength 8*(1 + 0.5 + any other relevent bonuses the elephant has)
    knight strength 10*(1 + any relevent bonuses the knight has)
     
  2. malekithe

    malekithe King

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    755
    All modifiers except combat promotions (combat I, II, etc.) are applied to the defender.

    In the case of elephant vs. Knight...

    Elephant attacking - 8 vs. 6.67 (10 / (1 + 0.5))
    Knight attacking -10 vs. 12 (8 * (1 + 0.5))

    If you throw in a Combat I on each combatant it looks like this:

    Elephant attacking - 8.8 (8 * (1 + 0.1) vs. 7.14 (10 / (1 + 0.5 - 0.1))
    Knight attacking - 11 (10 * (1 + 0.1) vs. 12.8 (8 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.1))
     
  3. ChangHao

    ChangHao Long standing Civ-er

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Singapore
    ironclad sux
     
  4. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,898
    The ICBM should have been included in the post.
     
  5. Danghis Khan

    Danghis Khan Your Friendly Pillager

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Your front steppes!!!
    Nah, the ICBM is a FUN unit.:nuke:
     
  6. Pitbullnix

    Pitbullnix Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    I found the Ironclad to be a complete and total waste of time and hammers. I always just wait until I can build Destroyers and the such before I invest in a navy, that is IF I invest in a navy.
     
  7. Landmonitor

    Landmonitor Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    502
    Location:
    LV-426
    I colonized an island that was two squares from Russia's coast. About 20 turns later, Catherine declared war on me. I rush built a couple riflemen while boats brought in more troops, then I rush built an ironclad. VERY good for taking out Frigates. A very limited window of usefulness (combustion in about 15 turns) and a very specialized situation (no good without universal sufferage) but it was very good at what it did.

    I still vote for ironclad though.
     
  8. GenericKen

    GenericKen Not at all suspicious

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    202
    I'm amazed that people vote for xbows. Maybe they're not great at attacking cities, but the maul the heck out of most retaliatory stacks of axemen. In multi, the chu-ko-nu is the first upgrade on collateral damage to the catapult until STEEL, and it's pretty damn good at it.


    Also note that because this is a multi-vote poll, I don't think you can sum the explorer together. It's still #2 to the ironclad.

    I personally voted for gunships. It comes so late in the game, the counter is only one tech away from it, and it doesn't get boosts from railroad. No other unit in your army has any hope of keeping up with a mobile force of gunships, so combined arms vs the counter is impossible and you have to wait for a sizeable force to be built and reach the front lines unless you want to send them in one at a time. Bonus vs armor is great, but what good is a unit if it can never reach the war?
     
  9. tomlouie

    tomlouie Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2002
    Messages:
    22
    Gunships are useful for pillaging. Combine several gunships with a mixed force in enemy territory. The gunships will always have moves to spare, so it can step out, pillaqe an enemy town twice and step back in. Cripples the enemy and gives cash.

    What's not to like?
     
  10. SuperBeaverInc.

    SuperBeaverInc. Groucho

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2003
    Messages:
    14,923
    Location:
    British Columbia
    Ironclad. I never build it. If I want to build a navy I just wait for Battleships and Destroyers.
     
  11. ownedbyakorat

    ownedbyakorat Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    242
    I vote for the Machine Gun. It can't even attack and by the time you get it you have infantry only a few turns away. By the time you get to deploy it it's obsolete.

    Some statements on some of the other units...

    Caravels are very useful for early naval superiority, first chance to contact civs not on your island (especially important if you're stuck on an island by yourself), and are good spies and explorers.

    Explorers themselves are cheap spies and occasionally have an actual use as an explorer as well. Good to set one on automated explore just to get updated info on countries with whom you have open border arrangements.

    Ironclads are pretty useless, but there have been situations where I was glad I could build one if I needed to (though I very rarely actually do). ( In contrast I sometimes make a Machine Gun but can never remember being thankful that I did.)

    Musketeers are not that useless if gotten early. They are excepted from anything that is "vs. melee" which allows you to pursue offensives that could not be done with macemen or swords. Being a gunpowder unit they also ignore walls as well.
     
  12. Rast

    Rast Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    125
    I agree that ironclads have limited usefulness but they're great (especially on the longer game speeds when it takes a while to get up to Destroyers) for defending coastal resources from all those pillage-happy galleys and frigates. And they upgrade to destroyers for cheap too.

    Machine guns are good city defenders 'till you get infantry. Another unit that only really shines on Marathon.

    If you're the first to gunpowder Musketmen will dominate just about anything that comes before them (as long as you're not stupid, of course).

    Only unit I don't really use is the Gunship - can't move on rails, can't rebase, by the time it gets to where it needs to go I don't need it anymore. Bombers cost just as much, when massed they can rip up any stack of units no matter how dug in.
     
  13. Akuma-sama

    Akuma-sama Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    81
    Gunships can be airlifted though :)

    I voted explorer because I've only used it once (Islands map with many large and no tiny islands; they got eaten up by roaming barb axes a few turns after landing, bad luck on my part :lol:), but I'll have to try using them as medics; I never liked having to waste 2 promotions to make a catapult-medic, and I like to have all my attack units buffed to attack :)

    Never used Ironclads, either; they'd be a LOT more useful if they had 3 or 4 MPs instead of 2... :(

    And as for Chokonus, I *always* use them when I'm China: the stack damage pretty much assures that I take the city (without losing precious cats), and the cumulative damage make it that I spend less time healing inside the city after it's taken.

    I've used Musketmen well in my last game, but then I had the tech lead (3 or 4 techs ahead at prince O_o (that is, excluding my closest neighbor, Hatty, who was my equal until she backstabbed me to keep me from getting a domination win -- it didn't help her at all :lol:)). By the time I got Riflemen, I had pwnt the Japanese and the Persians with them. That +1 attack they have over Macemen came in pretty handy VS fortified Longbowmen...
     
  14. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,089
    Location:
    London, UK
    Out of interest, if you're using musketeers like that, how do you get round the problem that the % defensive bonus that cities show doesn't indicate whether it comes from walls (which gunpowder units can ignore) or culture (which I believe they don't ignore)? Sure, you can see walls there, but if you see a 50% bonus, you can't necessarily tell that it wouldn't eg. still have 40% bonus from culture without the walls. Do you just march the musketeers up to the city and hope?
     
  15. Kalleyao

    Kalleyao Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Europe
    Worse unit is definetly ironclad. Because it can't enter ocean, requires iron & coal, you're soon getting destroyers (railroad + combustion) etc.
     
  16. solvero

    solvero Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    52
    Ironclads.
     
  17. migthegreek

    migthegreek Back In Black

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    459
    I wouldn't agree that crossbowmen are useless. In the early game when you're up against swordsmen, crossbowmen beat them hands down with their 50% vs Melee units.
     
  18. migthegreek

    migthegreek Back In Black

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    459
    In case nobody has noticed, Explorer has been put as a choice twice, and is therefore winning... I voted Ironclad. Never build one as I always get Destroyers too quick.
     
  19. Kalleyao

    Kalleyao Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Europe
    Because its a multiple choise poll one person might have voted for both.
     
  20. Crighton

    Crighton Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,136
    @ Mightegreek

    You were right about the crossbowman they can really chew up some macemen. Though to me, I just don't think they're usefullness on the playing field is all that great since gunpowder and riflemen come up rather quickly.
     

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