Which unit do you think is the most unless?

[funxus]

Well, there's a way to upgrade them, and I can't remeber missing it in a long time: Leonardo's Workshop

I've thought about that too, there should be away to pay for all the extra shields, like paying for 20s when upgrading a warrior to a Musk.

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by RedWolf
Has anybody noticed that Howitzers seem to powerful and thus "unrealistic"?.....
It would be possible to barely ever use armor units in favour of howitzers which seems a little ridiculous in my mind....

Howitzers represent the ultimate in "long-range" conventional weapons. In reality, they can "stand-off" miles away from the target and pound it with impunity. As to just using them without armor or mech inf to support them, the game is a bit unrealistic here, but if you don't smash the AI in one turn, you may discover that you will lose a lot of howies in the counter-attack!

 

[t0mme]

Can somebody explain me the use of archers and cruise missles? It's a total waste of shields!

 

[ElephantU]

Archers: a 30-shield unit available for research on the first round, combines defense of a Phalanx with attack of a Chariot. Very useful for garrisons and early offensives (combined with Horses) before Legions come along. If you are into Partial Rush Buying, getting Bronze and WarCode in the first two turns gives you all four rows. A better strategy might be Bronze, Alph, Write, but that is another topic.

Cruise Missiles: One shot, one kill, except against vet AEGIS cruisers or Battleships. Also useful for scouting like aircraft (you did know they could return and land?), but they have negative effects in Democracies. Dont use them much, but they have unique uses. The USNavy throws them around like 5inch shells.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by Ace


Howitzers represent the ultimate in "long-range" conventional weapons. In reality, they can "stand-off" miles away from the target and pound it with impunity.

Good example: Verdun in World War I.

 

[Ace]

If one chooses a "peaceful" path of technology, Archers are the only offensive "punch" one has until Monotheism (with crusaders) is discovered. Archers are very useful in city defense. A phalanx (fortified) and an archer (sentried) are a very tough combination it the early game. The archer can defeat any one-mover who approaches the city and the phalanx takes the hit from the two-movers.

 

[davemitchelll20]

are u stupid??? build a f**k load of warriors b4 u get leo's workshop and u get a loads of musketeers 4 dirt cheap prices providing u can steal gunpowder b4 u got feudalism.

tririemes!!! wat the f**k was wats his name thinking, the can't even stay afloat when they're not near land, wat a reject unit

Moderator Action: This is not the proper way to carry on a conversion. I suggest you read the forum rules and learn some patience.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by davemitchelll20
are u stupid??? build a f**k load of warriors b4 u get leo's workshop and u get a loads of musketeers 4 dirt cheap prices providing u can steal gunpowder b4 u got feudalism.

No, and if you had read the above post closely, you would have noticed that I prefaced it with a big IF! You should spend some time reading the old threads here before you make such comments. The warrior to rifleman trick is quite well known. However, there are many ways to win at civ2 and that is just one path to take. Try reseaching power democracy in the search engine!

tririemes!!! wat the f**k was wats his name thinking, the can't even stay afloat when they're not near land, wat a reject unit

You don't really know this game do you? 1: Using your logic from your first paragraph, triremes morph in Galleons via leo's! 2: if you know the trick, triremes do stay afloat away from land, and 3: in the time period between getting map making and getting navigation, those despised triremes of yours will save your butt if you happen to be on an island or small land mass.

What everyone misses in this thread is that no one unit is absolutely worthless. Some are much less valuable than others, but each and every one has a purpose, however limited.

 

[ElephantU]

davemitchelll20, your invective is way out of line. You're new here, so read some more and tone down your personal comments. Civ is a multi-level game of time, space, power and planning. Do you remember the scene in Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan, when Spock comments "Khan seems to exhibit two-dimensional thinking" and Kirk takes the ship straight down and comes up behind him? You need to learn that time is a dimension as well. I've seen players win the game before Leo's comes along, and establish dominant trade routes with ship chains of triremes.

 

[sir_schwick]

Just so no one will flame me, I haven't read all the posts to this point, so if someone answered a questoin of mine, just reference it.

Anyway....
I agree Fanatics are useless, even if you are fundy and at leas 60% of your cities are 20+ shield production. Triremes are only a must if I must expand to other lands, few times. Bombers are kinda useless, unless you are dealing with a marginally effective air force(the US has never been guilty of this.....).

Destroyers are pretty ****ty at the point you get them. Alhtough.. they could be used as decoys for submarines, or softeners for Battleships(lol). Also.. they are cheap and could be given to Allies as gifts, although your Allies will probably accuse you of cheapness.

I also have never thought highly of Helicopters. The French decimated the Helicopter wing of my invasion force with fighters. Imagine that, the French doing well against aerial assault! Also they killed some w/Partisans! At 100 shields, no.

Since everyone and their Uncle is submitting opinions about their favorites(it was on another topic, which I posted on), I will listen to myself type somemore.

Cruise missles are useless most of the time. They are 100 shields of one-hit weapon, that most of the time could be utilized by reusable weapons. Make sure you notice, most of the time. As was said before, Cruise Missles are excellent at taking out hard targets. A submarine loaded full of cruise missles can cripple even a well planned defense network(outside of cities) allowing the cavalry(or armour and howitzers) to maneuver into the cities. Nothing works better for attacking that double stack of mech-inf in the Mountains blocking your path.

Riflemen are also ragged on versus Alpine Troops, but ask you to reconsider. I believe Riflemen are 10 shields less than Alpine troops. Rifleman have 4 defence, versus the Alpuine Troops 5. Alos the Alpine Troop as the mountaineering skills. Roads and Settler/Enginners can nullify the difference. The 10 less shields is what is important. In war mobolized economy, at least 10 cities will be producing units. That means you save 100 shields for every 10 rifleman produced. That could save you 1 to many turns which can be utilized in increased quantity of troops, or other purposes. Of course quallity beats quantity in Repu/Democ. Just a thought.

Enough ppl have supported Partisans for me not to have to.

Marines are awesome. They may be slow, but they are hard to kill, especially in difficult terrain. They're Attack value allows them to threaten all units substantially but the Mech Inf. Air attacks against them are crippling though.

Nukes are the perfect Big Stick. All that is need to be said.

 

[funxus]

Riflemen are also ragged on versus Alpine Troops, but ask you to reconsider. I believe Riflemen are 10 shields less than Alpine troops. Rifleman have 4 defence, versus the Alpuine Troops 5. Alos the Alpine Troop as the mountaineering skills. Roads and Settler/Enginners can nullify the difference. The 10 less shields is what is important. In war mobolized economy, at least 10 cities will be producing units. That means you save 100 shields for every 10 rifleman produced. That could save you 1 to many turns which can be utilized in increased quantity of troops, or other purposes. Of course quallity beats quantity in Repu/Democ. Just a thought.

I usually build riflemen in cities I judge there's a low risk of attack, like central or isolated cities, and in cities in enemy territory I usually RB an Alpine troop (or later a mech inf). Some even skip defense in cities they judge not in danger of being attacked and save the whole cost of 40s.

 

[HughMungus]

But they're great for some uses. In my last game, I was trying to prevent another civ from building Manhattan Project so I could win the game without having to build SDI's and such and the CM's were useful not only for finding his cities but for reducing his production capacity as well (and for when my tanks arrived to waltz right into his city).

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Chariots are pretty bad, but I've always thought cruise missles were pretty bad...it's like, "hey, I spent 100 shields to kill your rifleman unit!"

It's pretty sad.

 

[Old n Slow]

Scanned through the thread & enjoyed both the wisdom & other comments. Noted many potential misunderstandings over the couple of years.

“Least valuable military unit” should be taken in a relevant context IMHO -- thus the warrior is judged as an ancient unit & the tank as a modern one & the twain do not meet. I agree with most of the consensus on the thread (i.e. the vet elephant (attack = 6) can take out a phalanx in a city, whereas a vet chariot might not. For 10 extra shields, the job gets done. So, if I’m faced with any kind of early warfare, I’ll research Poly before Wheel & won’t even SEE Chariots (the chariot is obsolete with the elephant). If I’m not faced with early warfare, there is a reasonable chance that the same research priority may still be in place, but the story in that case is not only do I not build chariots, but I’ll also not build elephants.

Warriors have considerable relative value as early scouts & militia. Horsemen have value for chasing down Barb Leaders. Phalanx are reasonable defenders, but I’m building fewer of them, due to a more strategic offensive mind set at the frontier. Archers….hmmm I build about one archer per three games nowadays -- usually due to the need for some killing power early in the game (barbs & no local Non units on the island) & a hut gave me WC; similar thought carried one step farther with legions.

Triremes are best thought of as transport, but I’ve killed a few barb leaders with them -- and early in the game the choice is crummy boats or no boats, so crummy boats will have to do. Not a “bad” unit -- after all at that point in time there are no other choices.

So for me, the question breaks down to job functions & choices -- what is the best choice for search -- Warrior, Horse, (Chariot, Elephant), Dip, or Explorer? Off the bat, the choice might be Warrior or Horse, but is the extra step of a Horse per turn worth the extra cost of 10 shields, and most importantly extra research time worth it for a Horse over an extra Warrior? Probably not (and thus even less so for the Chariot & Elephant).

Once a number of techs are in lace, more search options arise -- in a Republic, does one continue making Warriors to search (with a shield support & potential unhappiness I’m reluctant to do so) or use one of the two middle early options -- Diplomats vs. Explorers? the Explorers cost an extra 10 shields to make & a shield to maintain but can go farther in the wilds. Dips might get sidetracked & do other services (like bribing barbs) & might get bumped back to the capital -- but I find myself making about an explorer per three games vs. a noticeable number of dips.

Early offense -- two move units are my choice over the cat/phalanx combo, but occasionally (once every ten games) I’ll use the max offense to perform the mission. I can’t even remember the last time I built a cannon (Cavalry is sooo much better).

Early defense -- again not too many choices -- either spend an extra 10 (or 20) shields or don’t even pretend to have defense (which can be OK as well).

Middle game -- I usually get Tactics soon after Conscription & choose to build the stronger & more flexible unit accordingly for defense. I also often go out & do my first true invasions at this stage (hopefully my vet cavalry are facing nothing more than pikemen and sometimes even only phalanx -- easy wins).

As far as boats are concerned, I have never built a frigate (either use the galleon or use the ironclad) -- although I’m willing to buy up barb frigates & go sailing with a dip for more None units. I’ll make 0-6 Ironclads per game, usually for sea searches, with a view to upgrade them to destroyers for the same purpose. Once cruisers are available I consider destroyers as effectively obsolete.

Modern units -- I’ll make a few arty units if I’m still waging with cavalry & come up against walls or otherwise strong sites, but more often I’ll just wait until the truly heavy stuff arrives. My eight pack attack squads are usually half howies, with a spy, tank, jeep & some other unit (whatever is hanging around & looking for experience) -- two squads will either surround the target city or blitz & take out four. I think that the special case for marines is so rare that I’ve only built them in a couple of games -- (rough terrain, still in cavalry attack mode). I postpone flight to extend my Colossus effects & rarely see the need or use for aircraft as the AI’s are smoke by then. In a recent GOTM game where I was in a modern warfare situation, the AI & I had all the techs, howies were cheaper than
stealth bombers for the city work & there was no need for any sea action; stealth fighters were not up to the task for taking out the defensive mech units, so they were not brought into the fray.

So for me, the least valuable units include: Explorers (use Dips), Chariots (use Elephants), Marines (use Cruisers & then Cavalry/Alpine; wait for modern tanks & howies), Choppers & Cruise missiles(use something else for the search capability/use land units or sea units for the combat.)

 

[cdscivnut]

Chariots, helicopters, and explorers are useless. I never use them.

 

[Specialist290]

The Explorer is the most useless unit I know of. It's the only one I've seen get killed by a Warrior .

 

[Ace]

I have killed barb archers with a warrior at diety level.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by cdscivnut
Chariots, helicopters, and explorers are useless. I never use them.

Chariots: best from huts or bribed Barbs. Highest early attacking unit that is on the shortest tech path to spaceship (PolyTheism is off-path). Wheel is precursor to Engineering, which is precursor to Sanitation. I usually skip Horse and trade for Wheel when I find another civ with it. Gives me an easy Barb-killer unit, as well as a 30-shield unit for Partial Rush Buying. But then, I usually have Writing before I get Wheel.

Helicopters: Agreed, they are not great for war, but they are excellent scouts. Unlike Fighters and Bombers, they do not have to land at the end of 1 or 2 turns. They just keep getting a little more "damage" (wear&tear). They have decent range over water or land and are easier to deal with than cruise missile "scouts".

Explorers: The "move 3 anywhere" is unique early on, and they are counted as "military units" so they can capture empty cities and pillage terrain improvements. I will often build one at the end of the "exploration and settling" phase to map out best routes for "optimal" road and rail lines between cities. If they didnt require support they would be priceless.

 

[la fayette]

Originally posted by Ace
I have killed barb archers with a warrior at diety level.

No surprise: contrary to other archers, who have a defense of 2, barb archers have a defense of 1 (though it is not written anywhere in the manual).

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by la fayette

No surprise: contrary to other archers, who have a defense of 2, barb archers have a defense of 1 (though it is not written anywhere in the manual).

just another reason why warriors are not "useless".

 

[B52]

I agree that cruise missiles are useless, but one time I had a few on a sub, and I sent them in a radius to scout each turn. I came upon an AI stack of ships and hit it. I ended up sinking 12 ships! Now, that was one time the cruise was handy.

I have never built an explorer, ever. Howitzers are really useful in the later stages I find. They blow through city defenses way better than tanks.

I never build helicopters either - I hate the way they run out of strength as you move. By the time they reach the enemy they are too weak to do any damage!