which uu are over powered

[MisterBarca]

Praetorian beyond a shadow of a doubt.

It's not THAT clear. Both Cossacks and Redcoats are stronger relative to units in the same epoch.

 

[MisterBarca]

Regarding the Redcoats vs. Cossacks argument: In my opinion redcoats are superior to cossacks any day. The one shining thing about redcoats that puts them far ahead cossacks is conscription.

I prefer Cossacks over Redcoats. The Cossacks' superiority over Redcoats for me lies in two things: slightly earlier availability and far greater longevity. In particular, Redcoats are obsoleted fairly soon even in marathon games; in contrast, it's a long time before Cossacks are replaced by Gunships.

In terms of raw combat utility, it's pretty close. Cossacks have superior movement but Redcoats have greater utility in city combat--which is where the majority of the big battle take place. In terms of raw strength, Redcoats can beat Cossacks straight-up, but Cossacks beat other units of its era more decisively (though I could be wrong).

 

[dh_epic]

What makes Praetorians so damn valuable is that they come early. You can pretty much beeline to them, and clobber the AI in its cradle. I've taken out two, sometimes three civilizations before 0 AD with praetorians. That has a huge impact on the game.

Redcoats and Cossacks ARE overpowered, but by that point they can't sway the impact of the game NEARLY as quickly.

 

[ulsterman88]

praetorians are defenitely not overpowered after all they were the best military force in thier time and almost undefeated for about 600 years. NOt many other armies in history can boast a record like the roman army has. I feel they should be improved again with the abilty to build roads.

Does ayone else think the American UU shouldnt be the navy seal after all the Americans have the largest marine corps in the world and yet in the game they dont even have a marine unit. I think they should have a minutman or continental regular to replace musketman for a UU.

 

[dh_epic]

Remember: Civilization 4 is a game. History might have an undefeated unit, but if you let that guide your design, you will build an undefeatable unit.

We're talking about game balance, here. Not "who, in real life, had the baddest army?"

 

[Watiggi]

Remember: Civilization 4 is a game. History might have an undefeated unit, but if you let that guide your design, you will build an undefeatable unit.

We're talking about game balance, here. Not "who, in real life, had the baddest army?"

True. All the conquerors had an undefeatable army in their time. If the game was to be modelled after that, then the game would either fall apart of become a little to predictable. I don't nessecerily agree with balance though - gameplay definitely - but not nessecerily balance.

 

[dh_epic]

Balance means that yeah, grabbing your special ability will give you an advantage. But it won't guarantee victory. I think Praetorians fall into the overpowered category for that reason. But hey, someone has to be the overpowered one.

 

[PhanTasmO]

Prats for sure

 

[Bluetooth]

Perhaps we should make a distinction between defending against the UU or playing as the nation of the UU. As a human player I can quite easily defend myself against the Praetorian but I still have no idea how to defend myself against a horde of Cossacks.

 

[azzaman333]

Skirmishers are amazing. While the unit itself isnt the most overpowered, combined with the traits it most definately is.

The only AA unit which can beat the Skirmisher often is the Praet, which makes warring Mali painful. This leaves Mali with a bunch of Finacial cottages and a very easy way for them to change civics for the current strategy.

 

[Ball Lightning]

i think panzer are over-powering, with a 50% bonus vs tanks, its great.

 

[Watiggi]

Skirmishers are amazing. While the unit itself isnt the most overpowered, combined with the traits it most definately is.

The only AA unit which can beat the Skirmisher often is the Praet, which makes warring Mali painful. This leaves Mali with a bunch of Finacial cottages and a very easy way for them to change civics for the current strategy.

I remember taking down Mansa Musa with a Jaguar rush once. I ended up going up against Skirmishers/Longbowmen (he was upgrading them). I found it a lot easier than I thought.

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

i think panzer are over-powering, with a 50% bonus vs tanks, its great.

Still easily checked by gunships.

 

[Spartan117]

What makes Praetorians so damn valuable is that they come early. You can pretty much beeline to them, and clobber the AI in its cradle. I've taken out two, sometimes three civilizations before 0 AD with praetorians. That has a huge impact on the game.

Redcoats and Cossacks ARE overpowered, but by that point they can't sway the impact of the game NEARLY as quickly.

i dont think the preatorian is overpowered just very unrealistic

how are you able to manage to take 3 civs early on if you beeline to iron...

axeman(unpromoted) in open fields str 7.5 vs str 8 preatorians(unpromoted)

what the preatorian has what like a 55% chance of winning? those odd alone or not my type of odds...seems to me like sacrificing units
those axeman can have unit fortify, city defnse promotions, cultural bonus to city, or walls

the Preatorian is unrealistic...

it should be able to have bonus in melee combat but weakness to cavalry

and really, should a preatorain have a 8 vs 10 odds vs knights? ...

drop the preatorian str and give it some bonus in melee combat

 

[dh_epic]

If you snap out with Praetorians quick enough, by the time you're finishing that second civ, axemen have barely hit the field. That, of course, depends on a ready source of iron. But either way, it's too powerful for its own good.

 

[dh_epic]

This is at Monarch. I think you might do yourself a service by waging two wars at once. Even if you only choke one civilization and focus most of your energy on the other, it makes finishing that second civ much easier. Praets are powerful enough that if you cut them off from metals, they're pretty much screwed.

 

[Spartan117]

If you snap out with Praetorians quick enough, by the time you're finishing that second civ, axemen have barely hit the field. That, of course, depends on a ready source of iron. But either way, it's too powerful for its own good.

must be a small map.... and geesh how many preatorians are you able to build before other civs have bronzeworking, how are you able to support enough military....i dont play vanilla civ so what techs do you need to go through to beeline ironworking

what would be an adequate army to destroy 3 civs....first off you need a worker, and how many preatorians, can you really build enough of them fast enough to keep an invasion going...what about injured...but this is before axeman....once you start facing 55% odds or less then what you start scarificing preatorians left and right..i imgaine you have to raze alot of cities, your science must be at like 50% or lower to even attempt to control such an army....you cant build things to make them cheaper, the rest of the civs will easily out tech you, you will tend to get diplomacy penalties for declaring war aginst likely friends, this means trade is will be bad, now that you dont actually have anything worth trading for techs you simply are behind while you struggle for an economy, you must be really good

or maybe i am just making it too complicated and it is easier then it sounds

still preatorians are unrealistic

preatorians shouldnt stuggle with axeman and shouldnt stand a chance with knights i dont like 10 to 8 odds on open field

 

[kristopherb]

there so many good things about redcoat
techs ,gunpowder(the most usful tech of the game) ,banking(money for upgrading) printing press(required or s method for comumism) replacable parts for lumber mills ,rifleing is needed for tanks and all mordern units

its techinkily 20st
it can be upraged from all mellee/archer units

cossacks arent that bad but militery trad is a deadend tech plus you need gunpodwer

 

[Instant_Cereal]

the Preatorian is unrealistic...

it should be able to have bonus in melee combat but weakness to cavalry

and really, should a preatorain have a 8 vs 10 odds vs knights? ...

drop the preatorian str and give it some bonus in melee combat

Why should praetorians be weak against cavalry? The Romans legions defeated cavalry many times...

And 10 vs. 8 are good odds for the 10. Remember there were cataphracts during Rome's time and they weren't all that different from medieval knights.

 

[dh_epic]

Assuming you have the iron within your city capitol radius -- which is key... (otherwise you have to build a second city, which can be costly in terms of maintainance, and it takes time too...) You can generally take advantage of speed. Yes, some AIs will have *researched* bronzeworking, but they might not have mined it OR hooked it up. Even better is if the copper is in their third city -- you can count on them taking a while to hook it up, and with very little chance of it getting connected to the capitol in time.

Other than that, you'll want to have some roads pre-built. You really don't need too many Praetorians to take out an enemy civ. Yeah, the wars can generally turn into long chokes -- but if they can't safely work their city tiles, they can never have copper, and thus never have axemen. Usually when I strike the second civ, they have built but 1 or 2 -- if that.

Praetorians are easily the most overpowered unit in the game BECAUSE they can still be used as a rush unit. It would be different if you could count on every civ having axes.