which uu are over powered

[elitetroops]

Is there a modern age in the game??

Anyway, I'm kind of wondering how on earth OP managed to spell conquistador and praetorian correctly...

 

[strijder20]

Is there a modern age in the game??

Anyway, I'm kind of wondering how on earth OP managed to spell conquistador and praetorian correctly...

Hush, OP is still around and already abashed enough at his horrible spelling of years ago

 

[civfanchambers]

I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this, so I'll ask under this thread. What opinion do other players have regarding the Sumerian UU Vulture?

 

[sinimusta]

I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this, so I'll ask under this thread. What opinion do other players have regarding the Sumerian UU Vulture?

They're an ok unit. On levels where axe rushes are viable they make that easier. And if not having elephant but still willing to go for construction rush they're bit cheaper than swords.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Start a new thread for that question.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Keshiks are quite awesome because of their ability to ignore terrain penalties of any kind. Their first strike ability is also quite nice. Recently had a chance to win a Monarch/Normal domination as Kublai by spamming nearly 200 Keshiks by 1390 AD. But because it was kind of frustrating to flank Pikemen in cities, I'd still vote for Roman Praetorian as the best UU.

 

[GreatWhiteHope]

I'm beginning to think the immortal is the quechua on steroids.

 

[TheMulattoMaker]

I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this, so I'll ask under this thread. What opinion do other players have regarding the Sumerian UU Vulture?

I'm still a warfare noob, but I love them. They're like an axe that gets a 20% bonus against archery/mounted/siege units. Plus the Zigs are cheaper and earlier so it's easier to keep your economy going after you take all the AI's cities.

 

[Iranon]

I'm beginning to think the immortal is the quechua on steroids.

That kind of thinking is a trap.

1) There are many things Quechuas can do that Immortals can't.
2) Immortals need to be judged on their own merits, rather than comparing them to an earlier UU.

For one thing, they don't measure up well against War Chariots. Immortals are better at holding defensive terrain, and better at killing archers outside cities on flatland. War Chariots do better against Archers with decent defensive bonuses from cities/terrain/fortification, and of course against non-archery units.

 

[GreatWhiteHope]

That kind of thinking is a trap.

1) There are many things Quechuas can do that Immortals can't.
2) Immortals need to be judged on their own merits, rather than comparing them to an earlier UU.

For one thing, they don't measure up well against War Chariots. Immortals are better at holding defensive terrain, and better at killing archers outside cities on flatland. War Chariots do better against Archers with decent defensive bonuses from cities/terrain/fortification, and of course against non-archery units.

Well actually the Immortal has strength 6 vs. archers with their 50% bonus, which makes them really good even without their defensive bonus.

But sure, if you're lucky as the Incans and spawn close to several AIs, you can rush 3 of them and capture like 9 cities before one's even able to build a couple Immortals. However if the AI spawns are further away, it seriously weakens the utility of the quechua.

The Immortal rush can be much stronger. Even though it begins a thousand years later, if you're fortunate enough to spawn by AIs who don't have copper, the immortal's speed and strength can allow you to easily grab 12-15 cities by 1600 BC, and steal more workers while you're at it. However if the AI has copper or builds early walls, it'll stop you dead in your tracks.

Here's a huge/marathon deity game for reference. The domination limit was reached by 120 AD.

 

[Ghpstage]

Well actually the Immortal has strength 6 vs. archers with their 50% bonus, which makes them really good even without their defensive bonus.

That isn't how combat works. Combat modifier bonuses other than that from the Combat promotion line are applied to the defender, meaning the only way an (unpromoted) Immortal has 6 against an Archer is when defending on flatland!
When attacking the bonus is subtracted from the defending archers bonuses making it significantly weaker than it appears and causing war chariots to be stronger in the vast majority of circumstances, which is further shifted in the WC favour by higher base stregth benefiting more from the Combat promotions.

 

[GreatWhiteHope]

That isn't how combat works. Combat modifier bonuses other than that from the Combat promotion line are applied to the defender, meaning the only way an (unpromoted) Immortal has 6 against an Archer is when defending on flatland!
When attacking the bonus is subtracted from the defending archers bonuses making it significantly weaker than it appears and causing war chariots to be stronger in the vast majority of circumstances, which is further shifted in the WC favour by higher base stregth benefiting more from the Combat promotions.

Right, my bad. I guess that's what I meant. The War Chariot is definitely stronger nearly all of the time.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The vulture is one of the most powerful early unique units. Gilgamesh is creative which helps with domination prior to code of laws (caste system). The Ziggurat as already mentioned is awesome being available at priesthood rather than code of laws and at 75% hammer cost. Gilgamesh and the vulture is the first leader and unique unit I think of for domination victories at epic or marathon speeds.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[MCan]

I am by no means an expert but that civ is damn near a cheat. I play with my own special settings, most notably unrestricted leaders, so I am speaking purely in terms of starting techs and uniques. I am sure there is an argument for better techs, but I can only imagine maybe 2 better pairs of uniques, and one would be the Incas...