Ahh it might be layed. I'll try that. Thanks.
While We Wait: Part 2
- Thread starter Birdjaguar
- Start date
- Status
Symphony D.
Deity
So which of you landlubbers was going on about everything interesting in ITNES being over? I count at least three wars going on. "Go to BT" my arse. 
Amen to that. Though I only count two (Nor vs Sol, Mordvin vs Bulghar). 
Maybe you know something I don't, eh?
Maybe you know something I don't, eh?
Symphony D.
Deity
It's not-so-vaguely hinted at in the thread.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
Oceania is attacking Nihon. Not entirely unexpected as once Nihon is removed there goes the last thing that stands in complete and utter Oceanian domination of the Pacific.
Ah. Indeed it is, silly me for not spotting it. Doesn't take long for the scavengers to appear when a nation goes NPC. 
Symphony D.
Deity
I'm not the only one, nor am I the only one getting something out of it.
We'd decided on the matter a few days before Coney left, to be honest. I haven't trusted him since the Great War in IT III. And now it's payback--against Nihon, anyway.Niklas said:Doesn't take long for the scavengers to appear when a nation goes NPC.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
No doubt...let me see...Hong Kee is the most apparent. Perhaps Suzhou and Choson are contributing?
Symphony D.
Deity
Think bigger.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
The only thing bigger is Tieh China.
Symphony D.
Deity
Three's a crowd but four's a riot.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
Symph is right this has nothing to do with him going NPC. It has been in the works for quite some time. All you had to do was look at the naval build ups.
While we wait...for my nes to start
Can people review the rules I came up with? I have done the map now. (tis a random map, cradle fresh start...
). (barring some changes to the other hidden landmasses, the cradles good to go..).
KAL-NES RULES
NATIONAL TEMPLATE
Nation Name
Capital:
Ruler:
Government:
Economy (Points):
Population:
Culture:
Stability:
Prestige: 0
Army (Quality):
Navy (Quality):
Education:
Tech. Level:
Projects:
Nation Background:
Government
Government - This is your form of government. As this is a classical age NES, I hope to emphasise that most of the control IS centralised in one person...usually. As such your orders will have a direct influence on how things go. There will be no leadership scores. If you have higher than average corruption you'll know, and be able to take appropriate steps.
Culture
Much as das's latest incarnation of rules, this is a descriptive part of cultures included within your borders, including severity of rebels/heretics etc (religious strife), and all those other fun details.
Technology Level
Describes your current tech level...start in bronze, continue. To begin with few people will start with horses. They will be introduced. This IS a slow process, and just because you've maxed out your education stat does NOT mean you will advance.
Military
Increase the military by 5000 Infantry, 1000 Cavalry, or 20 Ships. Or some UU with a number decided by me. Please note, that the general "Elite" unit which is more loyal etc and basically perfect will cost the appropriate price. However, if you have a UU that fills a niche and is not perfect and capable of killing all, then that will be more in your favour. As I said however what you decide your UU is, is up to you.
Leveying troops will be the mainstay of many an Army, Levees are not all bad, but understand they have limitations. They come in a few flavours, Spearmen, skirmishers (archers etc), Horsemen (if you be a steepe nation).
Logistics is of varying importance. If you intend to make a lightning quick campaign, this will make it difficult to forage appropriate amounts of food, and thus logistics will be required to fulfil your campaign objectives. Additionally if your enemy is using a scorched earth policy, it again might prove useful to use logistics. To make sure, just PM me.
However if you wish to make a surgical operation where you capture a few strategic points in your campaign, and consolidate your position, and then make the next move next year etc, this will not cause a considerable strain on your need for logistics And thus you require none. As a note, sending galleys with men in them anywhere will almost certainly require logistics. And if you have no direct land route to the place you’re invading....yup logistics.
Do note that particularly huge armies will eat into the economy even without active campaigning (hence why you can levee!).
Troop positions and so on will be required for ALL troops. However I strongly advise that you give me percentages. I have deceided against putting troop numbers on the map for ALL to see. I will instead keep a map with these positions on it. If you wish to know how many troops an opponant has over the border, ask me, I will give you an answer, of some sort.
Lastly, troop training, yes alls well and good; there will however merely be three levels; inferior, adequate and superior. This means that a loss in training hurts more (there being less training) but it also means you/I don't differentiate between Elite +5 and Elite +6....because that doesn't mean anything.
Levees come in at Inferior, Normal troops at Adequate. To get to Superior, win lots of battles. The training will be applied in batched of 1000 (so you might have 2000 Superior, 5000 Adequate, 20000 Inferior Levees). etc.
Economy
Eco points will not be banked, errors in your spending orders will result in bad things happening. (i.e. you just funded some rebels/governor to go attempt a coup etc). This adds to the flavour of things, and shouldn't usually pose a serious threat to your armed forces etc.
Eco is simply a measure of the number of trade centres you have, now trade centres are not representative of the city only, it’s a broad measure of all the surrounding lands as well.
No sacrificing, no levels, just simple numbers, (and of course, obvious strategic targets to capture, to take and hold etc, they are indicative of rich provinces etc).
Population
Done with lovely numbers (potential move to size stat later). Total land area isn't too important. This will dictate maximum economic performance, and of course military size. Higher populations will tend to low efficiency and vice versa. Not strictly the case of course.
Infrastructure
Is represented on the map by roads, I’ll come up with a price for stone roads, dirt roads will always exist.
Education
This is just how well your Elites are educated. This everything from Cultural and philosophy improvements, to Engineering. Perhaps most importantly it also gives the skill of generals and their ability to carry out your orders. And of course the progress of technology (although A far greater variable WILL be time). Do note that this will effect a LOT. This is to replace those irritating leadership stats, and give education something more useful to do than just tech you up. (and since you won’t be tech’ing up all the time, this will be the main focus of the stat).
Represented by a value between 1 and 10.
Stability
Lets just say that Confidence was representative of one thing, Stability. Low stability means rebellions, and other petty matters. High Stability means fewer rebellions (less NPC ones anyway). Random events will be determined by your stability, by how high, or low it is. Lastly everything will have an effect on stability, declaring war, diplomacy etc.
Measured from -3 to 3
Prestige
Much like Confidence, but in the greater world; this is the fame or infamy of a state (and its ruler), as based on its actions (and the actions of its diplomats). It will influence diplomacy, cultural influence and, of course, trade. It might be considered your reputation. It breaks down into Dread or Nobility, depending on whether you’re a benevolent ruler or an evil despot. I would like to point out that having a high Dread is not a bad thing, what is perhaps worse is a low rank in Dread or Nobility. As either you are seen as crazy and idiotic, or a bit wet behind the ears. Dread and Nobility will be governed by things like your spy networks, your treatment of prisoners, how you conduct a war, how you conduct your Diplomacy.
It cannot be grown by eco. Points directly Either
Dread: 1-10
Nobility: 1-10
Projects
Local equivalent of wonders, but is more often some sort of a particularily large project or program as opposed to some huge building. Basically, you can do almost anything reasonable with this (again, consult me for specifics), but the amount of time it will take depends on just what do you plan to do. You have to pay 1 eco a turn until completion.
You can make it secret, but in that case you'll have to remind me about the effects every so often.
Nation Background
To better fit in as the ruler of your country, you will have a brief history of each country. I will update these... occasionally.
Intelligence
It works like this: you can PM me questions that I will answer (not necessarily truthfully, and probably in an ambiguous way), or add espionage/intelligence orders to your order sets, with the stuff that you want done (both sabotage and other such stuff, and normal information gathering; I will send secret reports after the update, with the results of your operations). Do note that your spies are neither omniscient nor omnipotent; - they aren't even omnipresent, most of the times. The latter can be partially fixed by gradual infiltration and construction of a spy network. Eco. points are not necessary here, but they might be very helpful. THIS IS A VERY INTRESTING PART OF THE GAME; I have seen plans failing horribly because someone used intel correctly, do NOT underestimate it. However recognising that poorer nations are less likely to be able to throw money at their intelligence problems, I am giving you plenty of room to try other options. (Like during an war that two powers to your north are undergoing, bribing elements of the population during the chaos, etc).
Eco Guide:
1 eco points buys you;
1000 Cavalry
5000 Infantry
20 Ships
X UU
1 level in these stats;
Stability
Education
Projects
Investment towards a TC
Investment towards Intel
Anything I should add?
Can people review the rules I came up with? I have done the map now. (tis a random map, cradle fresh start...
). (barring some changes to the other hidden landmasses, the cradles good to go..).KAL-NES RULES
NATIONAL TEMPLATE
Nation Name
Capital:
Ruler:
Government:
Economy (Points):
Population:
Culture:
Stability:
Prestige: 0
Army (Quality):
Navy (Quality):
Education:
Tech. Level:
Projects:
Nation Background:
Government
Government - This is your form of government. As this is a classical age NES, I hope to emphasise that most of the control IS centralised in one person...usually. As such your orders will have a direct influence on how things go. There will be no leadership scores. If you have higher than average corruption you'll know, and be able to take appropriate steps.
Culture
Much as das's latest incarnation of rules, this is a descriptive part of cultures included within your borders, including severity of rebels/heretics etc (religious strife), and all those other fun details.
Technology Level
Describes your current tech level...start in bronze, continue. To begin with few people will start with horses. They will be introduced. This IS a slow process, and just because you've maxed out your education stat does NOT mean you will advance.
Military
Increase the military by 5000 Infantry, 1000 Cavalry, or 20 Ships. Or some UU with a number decided by me. Please note, that the general "Elite" unit which is more loyal etc and basically perfect will cost the appropriate price. However, if you have a UU that fills a niche and is not perfect and capable of killing all, then that will be more in your favour. As I said however what you decide your UU is, is up to you.
Leveying troops will be the mainstay of many an Army, Levees are not all bad, but understand they have limitations. They come in a few flavours, Spearmen, skirmishers (archers etc), Horsemen (if you be a steepe nation).
Logistics is of varying importance. If you intend to make a lightning quick campaign, this will make it difficult to forage appropriate amounts of food, and thus logistics will be required to fulfil your campaign objectives. Additionally if your enemy is using a scorched earth policy, it again might prove useful to use logistics. To make sure, just PM me.
However if you wish to make a surgical operation where you capture a few strategic points in your campaign, and consolidate your position, and then make the next move next year etc, this will not cause a considerable strain on your need for logistics And thus you require none. As a note, sending galleys with men in them anywhere will almost certainly require logistics. And if you have no direct land route to the place you’re invading....yup logistics.
Do note that particularly huge armies will eat into the economy even without active campaigning (hence why you can levee!).
Troop positions and so on will be required for ALL troops. However I strongly advise that you give me percentages. I have deceided against putting troop numbers on the map for ALL to see. I will instead keep a map with these positions on it. If you wish to know how many troops an opponant has over the border, ask me, I will give you an answer, of some sort.
Lastly, troop training, yes alls well and good; there will however merely be three levels; inferior, adequate and superior. This means that a loss in training hurts more (there being less training) but it also means you/I don't differentiate between Elite +5 and Elite +6....because that doesn't mean anything
. Levees come in at Inferior, Normal troops at Adequate. To get to Superior, win lots of battles. The training will be applied in batched of 1000 (so you might have 2000 Superior, 5000 Adequate, 20000 Inferior Levees). etc.
Economy
Eco points will not be banked, errors in your spending orders will result in bad things happening. (i.e. you just funded some rebels/governor to go attempt a coup etc). This adds to the flavour of things, and shouldn't usually pose a serious threat to your armed forces etc.
Eco is simply a measure of the number of trade centres you have, now trade centres are not representative of the city only, it’s a broad measure of all the surrounding lands as well.
No sacrificing, no levels, just simple numbers, (and of course, obvious strategic targets to capture, to take and hold etc, they are indicative of rich provinces etc).
Population
Done with lovely numbers (potential move to size stat later). Total land area isn't too important. This will dictate maximum economic performance, and of course military size. Higher populations will tend to low efficiency and vice versa. Not strictly the case of course.
Infrastructure
Is represented on the map by roads, I’ll come up with a price for stone roads, dirt roads will always exist.
Education
This is just how well your Elites are educated. This everything from Cultural and philosophy improvements, to Engineering. Perhaps most importantly it also gives the skill of generals and their ability to carry out your orders. And of course the progress of technology (although A far greater variable WILL be time). Do note that this will effect a LOT. This is to replace those irritating leadership stats, and give education something more useful to do than just tech you up. (and since you won’t be tech’ing up all the time, this will be the main focus of the stat).
Represented by a value between 1 and 10.
Stability
Lets just say that Confidence was representative of one thing, Stability. Low stability means rebellions, and other petty matters. High Stability means fewer rebellions (less NPC ones anyway). Random events will be determined by your stability, by how high, or low it is. Lastly everything will have an effect on stability, declaring war, diplomacy etc.
Measured from -3 to 3
Prestige
Much like Confidence, but in the greater world; this is the fame or infamy of a state (and its ruler), as based on its actions (and the actions of its diplomats). It will influence diplomacy, cultural influence and, of course, trade. It might be considered your reputation. It breaks down into Dread or Nobility, depending on whether you’re a benevolent ruler or an evil despot. I would like to point out that having a high Dread is not a bad thing, what is perhaps worse is a low rank in Dread or Nobility. As either you are seen as crazy and idiotic, or a bit wet behind the ears. Dread and Nobility will be governed by things like your spy networks, your treatment of prisoners, how you conduct a war, how you conduct your Diplomacy.
It cannot be grown by eco. Points directly Either
Dread: 1-10
Nobility: 1-10
Projects
Local equivalent of wonders, but is more often some sort of a particularily large project or program as opposed to some huge building. Basically, you can do almost anything reasonable with this (again, consult me for specifics), but the amount of time it will take depends on just what do you plan to do. You have to pay 1 eco a turn until completion.
You can make it secret, but in that case you'll have to remind me about the effects every so often.
Nation Background
To better fit in as the ruler of your country, you will have a brief history of each country. I will update these... occasionally.
Intelligence
It works like this: you can PM me questions that I will answer (not necessarily truthfully, and probably in an ambiguous way), or add espionage/intelligence orders to your order sets, with the stuff that you want done (both sabotage and other such stuff, and normal information gathering; I will send secret reports after the update, with the results of your operations). Do note that your spies are neither omniscient nor omnipotent; - they aren't even omnipresent, most of the times. The latter can be partially fixed by gradual infiltration and construction of a spy network. Eco. points are not necessary here, but they might be very helpful. THIS IS A VERY INTRESTING PART OF THE GAME; I have seen plans failing horribly because someone used intel correctly, do NOT underestimate it. However recognising that poorer nations are less likely to be able to throw money at their intelligence problems, I am giving you plenty of room to try other options. (Like during an war that two powers to your north are undergoing, bribing elements of the population during the chaos, etc).
Eco Guide:
1 eco points buys you;
1000 Cavalry
5000 Infantry
20 Ships
X UU
1 level in these stats;
Stability
Education
Projects
Investment towards a TC
Investment towards Intel
Anything I should add?
The only problem I have with the above rules is the idea of Education encompassing military leadership. Historically, there have been many great generals who have had little to no education in military matters. Not to mention general charisma is an inborn trait.
jalapeno_dude
AKA Panda Judo Eel
I've already stated in other threads that I believe Agriculture is just as important, if not more so, to a Bronze/Iron age nation as trade is. Economy being based entirely on cities is completely unrealistic. See OTL ancient Egypt.
Silver Steak
The Ghost of SS
While we wait for me to end service, I might display my ideas for the NES... I'm still working on the details, but will be able to make a preliminary list of possible settings soon. That is, if anyone is still remotely interested after I've killed three NESes briefly after they started (to much complains and disappointment). I'd still enjoy you discussing my ideas, so that some more competent MOD might have some inspiration for their own ideas.
I'll post a list anyway. Knowing how we NESers easily fall to the temptation of spamming and frequently engage in heated forum debates, at least some of you ought to respond.
I'll post a list anyway. Knowing how we NESers easily fall to the temptation of spamming and frequently engage in heated forum debates, at least some of you ought to respond.
Symphony D.
Deity
Wrong thread, people.
- Status
