Erik Mesoy
Core Tester / Intern
By researching Cyborgs? 
While We Wait: Part 2
- Thread starter Birdjaguar
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Sigged! Best...quote...ever!
jalapeno_dude
AKA Panda Judo Eel
Just a reminder to mods to post their deadlines in the Next Orders Due... thread (which is stickied). It's a great resource, but unfortunately it hasn't been used in a while (except by me 
).
).
Abaddon
Deity
yeah i really should do that.. but then people will start poking me for the updates aswell 
I beg to differ.Just a reminder to mods to post their deadlines in the Next Orders Due... thread (which is stickied). It's a great resource, but unfortunately it hasn't been used in a while (except by me
A question for "historicial" NESes:
Should players be able to speed up technological advances and progress faster than they did in real life?
There seems to be a player push to make progress faster; to buy their way into better arms and equipment that is out of step with what was possible in reality.
Or should mods hold progress back to more closely reflect a historical timeline?
Should players be able to speed up technological advances and progress faster than they did in real life?
There seems to be a player push to make progress faster; to buy their way into better arms and equipment that is out of step with what was possible in reality.
Or should mods hold progress back to more closely reflect a historical timeline?
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
I believe that question actually effects me in your nes and thus out of fear of being seen to support my position, I withdraw myself from discussion involving that question 
Not before making a short and sweet statement of course.
Players should be allowed to make progress faster, but not substantially faster until the social, economic, political and etc factors have been drastically changed from OTL to facilitate the improved speed of technological advances.
EDIT: And remember Meiji Japan, primitive nations do not catch up with a snap of the finger like in some neses... *shivers* *shivers* Oh god, the one turn industrialization and modernization traumatized me....
Not before making a short and sweet statement of course. Players should be allowed to make progress faster, but not substantially faster until the social, economic, political and etc factors have been drastically changed from OTL to facilitate the improved speed of technological advances.
EDIT: And remember Meiji Japan, primitive nations do not catch up with a snap of the finger like in some neses... *shivers* *shivers* Oh god, the one turn industrialization and modernization traumatized me....
jeps
Arcadefire
It depends on what you mean. If it is getting more modern technology by the most advanced player, maybe.
If it the least advanced player, with help of an ally or two, catching up faster than OTL, I see no problems with that
If it the least advanced player, with help of an ally or two, catching up faster than OTL, I see no problems with that
silver 2039
Deity
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A NES shouldn't be an exact reflection of history. You should allow them to make advancements even if it is a little early as long as it is not exceedingly unrealistic.
BTW that was just Part 1 of my orders. Part 2 is coming.
BTW that was just Part 1 of my orders. Part 2 is coming.
North King
blech
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You don't think real life nations pushed their technology as well as they could? Barring massive economic or social differences with our world, technological pace should be roughly the same.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Buhahahhaha! I don't think you realise how contingent and random the OTL technical development path was, you could get a very different outcome from differing initial circumstances within 50 years.
North King
blech
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That's simply not true. People like to make a lot of noise about randomness, and individual inventors driving forth the technological revolution, yet it's not nearly so random or individual. Individuals can drive forward technology in a specific way, but they can't start from a blast furnace and invent a nuclear bomb, no matter how much of a genius they are. Technology needs many minds, working together, it needs sharing of innovations, building on previous works. Almost every single invention in the history of mankind was "invented" more than once, by multiple people. Often, the man credited with "inventing" something was just building on a previous man's work. And so it goes on and on: not in a random way, not in an individual way, but in a very slow, earth-shattering tide that cannot be slowed or sped except by minuscule amounts.
In sum, people like to make a lot of noise about different paths, but we invented what we invented for very good reasons, and the reasons are not easily changed.
that might be true in the last 100 years, but if you go back 500 years or 1000 years I doubt that it would hold true. Tech pace is driven by much more than invention. Witness Leonardo's impact (or lack of it) on warfare. Standing armies did not appear in Europe until after 1600 and required at least four underlying elements to be in place:
Stable tax base that could be counted on (and what is required for that?)
Standardization of weapons and equipment (among arms manufacturers)
Drill manuals and training (required by military leaders)
Chain of Command as a concept (Subordination of individual power to that of the king)
So to speed up standing armies you would have to speed up all of those and maybe more. I'm not sure that spending EP can effectively (and realistically) speed them all up.
silver 2039
Deity
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hahaha...Asia had all of those long before.....those backward Europeans...
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
You know, Asia should have LARGE standing armies
Swissempire
Poet Jester
I think its a very interesting question, and that North King is dead wrong.
Its not a matter of blast furnaces to nuclear bombs, or even flight, automobiles, machine guns, electricity and a myriad of other large advancements. Its a matter of small progresses that are entirely dependent on time and place.
Human Advancement isn't like it is in Civ, where you research a technology and POOF you have all the related components. Progress is a series of babysteps that builds of each other. It all may have the same endpoint, but there are an infinite number of pathways to get to that endpoint. You have the OTL path, but once you diverge from OTL, the needs of nations and cultures become different, as do their effects. Thusly the path of progression advances, but in a different direction.
You can't say "this develops in this 5 year span, everyone GO GET IT!" and then the players scramble for that tech. Technology has to appear when the overall settings are right. A peaceful and large nation isn't going to randomly invent the machine gun, but a smaller warlike or imperialist nation just might.
As you said Bird, there are prerequistites for certain advances or paths. If a player can meet the burden of proof to say that this advancement WOULD come about(like, say, this is a war with parallels to the Muscovy-Kazan fighting, and i have a brilliant, forward thinking general who trusts his engineers. They are facing walls, so they put together a battery-tower). As a Mod, you should use commonsense. Don't give them steam powered mega-tanks in the 1700's, but don't NOT(great grammar, i know) give them something because it might be a little early OR because you don't want that advancement to be pushed back too much.
Its not a matter of blast furnaces to nuclear bombs, or even flight, automobiles, machine guns, electricity and a myriad of other large advancements. Its a matter of small progresses that are entirely dependent on time and place.
Human Advancement isn't like it is in Civ, where you research a technology and POOF you have all the related components. Progress is a series of babysteps that builds of each other. It all may have the same endpoint, but there are an infinite number of pathways to get to that endpoint. You have the OTL path, but once you diverge from OTL, the needs of nations and cultures become different, as do their effects. Thusly the path of progression advances, but in a different direction.
You can't say "this develops in this 5 year span, everyone GO GET IT!" and then the players scramble for that tech. Technology has to appear when the overall settings are right. A peaceful and large nation isn't going to randomly invent the machine gun, but a smaller warlike or imperialist nation just might.
As you said Bird, there are prerequistites for certain advances or paths. If a player can meet the burden of proof to say that this advancement WOULD come about(like, say, this is a war with parallels to the Muscovy-Kazan fighting, and i have a brilliant, forward thinking general who trusts his engineers. They are facing walls, so they put together a battery-tower). As a Mod, you should use commonsense. Don't give them steam powered mega-tanks in the 1700's, but don't NOT(great grammar, i know) give them something because it might be a little early OR because you don't want that advancement to be pushed back too much.
Just a reminder to mods to post their deadlines in the Next Orders Due... thread (which is stickied). It's a great resource, but unfortunately it hasn't been used in a while (except by me
I beg to differ.
I use it as well. Don't get too high on your horse JD.
My deadline is fixed, so no need for me to update that post there.
... and yeah yeah, update on the way.
... and yeah yeah, update on the way.
Abaddon
Deity
We will always push due to the obvious power gaming aspect.. we all want the best weapons etc. If someone is trying to pour cash into it.. perhaps divert it to better training/leadership.. or perhaps in your mind that a particular player has slightly better "guns" but nothing super different.
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