While We Wait: Part 2

[Symphony D.]

Now, yes, a player does quite a bit of work themselves, but if it weren't for a moderator, there would be no NES.

One: no NES exists without players. Both halves are equally important. To say otherwise is frankly a crock. The Moderator does do quite a lot of work, yes, more than the players, even summed. But he chose to do that work to have fun and to let Players have fun.

They are essentially borrowing time out of the moderator's life, and that is not something to be underestimated.

Two: no one was ever forced into moderating. Players are not borrowing time of a Moderator's--the Moderator has elected to give them that time. You aren't required to Moderate. If you do, you have very few obligations beyond doing so--only one, in fact.

So in essence, I'm just giving up my free time for quite a few people I don't even know, and in doing so, get yelled at if it doesn't go perfectly.

Then I really must call into question why you do it if you hate it so much and find it so futile, considering it's mostly supposed to be about having fun.

Players and Moderators have an innate contract between them. It is an agreement. It isn't spoken, written, or recorded anywhere. It is an implicit arrangement wherein the Moderator agrees to provide a setting, maintain it, and compile and execute orders to provide updates. The Players reciprocate by providing those orders and otherwise being engaged in making sure that such things continue to occur.

Both sides can default on that contract. Players by not sending orders, Moderators by not doing the task they have taken on for themselves. As a Moderator, as I see it, you have two choices: you can continue to uphold your end of the contract as long as you can or see fit to do so, or you may terminate it. If you choose to do so, you should have the decency to inform the people you are defaulting on. It is generally acknowledged most players inform the Moderator that they are quitting a given position, unless they just up and disappear. Some don't. They are considered discourteous. Moderators should reciprocate with the same courtesy.

They might be disappointed. Well, life is full of disappointments. You don't want them hounding you? Make it abundantly clear you are not interested in renewing the NES and will not be dissuaded. They continue regardless? Ignore them. Block their accounts. They're not your "friends" anyway, so what does it matter?

And what if you don't say anything at all? Then they're going to hound you anyway. Look at any given NES where the Moderator decided to let it die quietly. People don't give up unless the facts are thrust into their faces. You're not saving yourself any grief by thinking people will just let it quietly slip into the icy waters of forgetfulness, because they won't. And so a Moderator may as well have the decency and the backbone to say that the game is dead, because they'll take the same flak regardless, and probably much more if they decides to drag it out with uncertainty.

The Moderator started it of their own volition, and they may end it of their own volition. Anybody else's opinion doesn't mean a damn thing on the matter, so long as the Moderator has the ability to recognize his or her responsibility to inform them what's going on. That is a mark of maturity--making decisions and standing by them. If the players are mature, they will likewise acknowledge that choice even if they don't like it, and if they do not then they are immature and may be safely ignored.

There is no excuse for this behavior.

 

[Luckymoose]

I might do in my spare time a "Commanders NES". As I actually NES less often now and have a good bit of free time besides what I already spend on other things. I can mod two NESes no problem. My Idea is the typical Generals or Commanders NES. Set in the Modern World but in a conflict starting say 2008 between say Russia, China, Iran etc vs. USA, EU, etc. Of course I would not allow nukes and say this is actually a real war. If anyone is interested say something. I could do it with help on stats.

 

[Thlayli]

We must export the revolution. We must not lose initiative! Firstly, we need to assault SCC, a historically-NESing forum, to restore it to the fold of the NESing Internationale. Then, we must steadily infiltrate the Paradox forum and spread propaganda there, to incite and coerce the masses into a popular revolution, which will be supported by assault squads formed from local volunteers.

This remains a viable strategy.

 

[das]

Set in the Modern World but in a conflict starting say 2008 between say Russia, China, Iran etc vs. USA, EU, etc.

Please don't. That's just incredibly silly. Why not have a nice little regional proxy war in the Middle East? That would be far easier to do, and superpowers still could get involved on a local level - clandestinely or openly.

 

[Luckymoose]

Please don't. That's just incredibly silly. Why not have a nice little regional proxy war in the Middle East? That would be far easier to do, and superpowers still could get involved on a local level - clandestinely or openly.

I was thinking that. Middle East and have Iran in a conflict with America. Was my first idea.

North King suggested do one in Africa with no outside interference. For something interesting.

 

[North King]

North King suggested do one in Africa with no outside interference. For something interesting.

Since when has Africa had interference?

 

[jeps]

Africa with no interference would be very cool

look at what happens when the African Union works alone in Darfur.

If you do that (very ) I would have to pick one of two very obvious nations that I refuse to name on the grounds that someone would take them to spite me.

 

[LightFang]

I claim Cote d'Ivoire to spite j_eps! KUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[jeps]

that is spite? cool. a neighbour.

Côte d'Ivoire? Have fun with your civil war (or at least north-south political division)

 

[a_propagandist]

Compared to places like Somalia, it's not that bad.

 

[LightFang]

All right, it's been narrowed down to Liberia, Guinea, Mali, Burkina Faso, and Ghana. Let's all pick those countries NAO.

 

[Symphony D.]

Hrm... I wonder.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Well, spoken NK but I do agree with Sym D that a posted notice of the end is the courteous and responsible thing to do.

 

[Nylan]

Okay, so to the NiNes players...

Strictly OOC and all that, does anyone want to talk about what the fudge they're doing? I know I don't. Too much to keep track of.

IWhich ones? Kalia and Huris are just hanging out, with Huris being somewhat pissed off about Lacaille.

More or less. I like to think of it as splendid isolation...but without the isolation part

As far as you know anyways...

 

[TerrisH]

Okay, so to the NiNes players...

Strictly OOC and all that, does anyone want to talk about what the fudge they're doing? I know I don't. Too much to keep track of.

in truth, no clue at all. the gap between updates was a bit to long, and now I find myself not remembering my plans.

I do have a resolution to end the Rana debate though, and I'll ask to see it started next update.

I also want to get the mistry of the scourge solved, or at least progressed a bit.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

in truth, no clue at all. the gap between updates was a bit to long, and now I find myself not remembering my plans.

I had that feeling too, so I booted up AIM/ICQ/MSN/Y!M and started blabbing at pretty much everybody who would be online. And now I'm worried that my plans may fall down because I can't keep up with everything I started. Oh well, what's life without a little risk?

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I'm sorry, but I take issue with this. A lot of issue, actually.

What a moderator does for a player is inestimably greater than what a player gives a moderator. No moderator does it quite the same, but to actually make an excellent NES takes a huge amount of effort on the moderator's part. For me, it consumes entire weekends to write updates, to draw maps, to enumerate stats, to answer questions, to put up with player's whining, and so on.

Now, yes, a player does quite a bit of work themselves, but if it weren't for a moderator, there would be no NES. They are essentially borrowing time out of the moderator's life, and that is not something to be underestimated. I have drawn hundreds of maps for NESes; I have written what would literally be novels if it were in any other format.

This is, to be quite honest, really frustrating. I could be spending my time actually writing novels, like I've always wanted to do; I could be doing any of those other things, and instead I write up dozens of updates and then get bowled over by complaints that they're not coming quickly enough. It is unbelievable, really, what players expect--no, demand of moderators. They demand that mods give up days of their free time, then complain if someone slips up.

It's stupid, really. I give up what would probably be around three or four hours of every day to moderate an NES, for people who I've never seen and will never see in my life. There are some three or four people on this forum who I actually might consider a friend, in that we've not only worked together, but also perhaps talked a bit more than just the surface crap about NESes. Most everyone else are pleasant persons, but they can't really be called my friends, can they? So in essence, I'm just giving up my free time for quite a few people I don't even know, and in doing so, get yelled at if it doesn't go perfectly.

Well, to be quite honest, it's unreasonable to expect a moderator to paint a giant target on himself, which is exactly what admitting something is dead does. If people weren't so bloody abusive when someone stops donating their time because something else comes up, then a moderator might be more inclined to admit its dead.

From a player's point of view, I've seen many NESes end, and it's not the end of the world. There are other NESes. From a moderator's point of view, which I've had almost as much experience with as playing, it's hard to try and end it. The last time I had to legitimately end an NES against player wishes (some of them simply end due to players stop being active), I didn't bother signing into an IM for about half a week afterwards, because whenever I did, I was barraged with pleas and insults. It wasn't that they saddened me so much as that they irritated the hell out of me. Yes, I'm aware you miss the NES, and I usually miss it as well. Most of them, I ended because I had to.

So, speaking honestly, if you want moderators to admit that they've closed it, then you need to stop treating moderators and their time like a cheap commodity to be bought at the general store.

That's really all I have to say on the matter.

Hear hear!

@Sym- There's no contract, the moderator updates because he or she likes the world that has been created, and the players send orders because they want to do things with their nations and change the world.

The moderator has the right to let NESes drift into obscurity, they work much harder than the players have to, regardless of their willingness to do so.

Well, spoken NK but I do agree with Sym D that a posted notice of the end is the courteous and responsible thing to do.

If I planned to end my NES, I would come out and say so. I think the problem is that NESers either don't want to say 'It's over' in a major NES, or the NES is small enough to drift away to a quiet and obscure demise.

 

[das]

they work much harder than the players have to, regardless of their willingness to do so.

Which still is absolutely no excuse. I mostly agree with Symphony, actually.

African wars tend to be rather boring; they are either a cakewalk or drawn-out and indecisive. Not nearly enough militaries in proper shape. Middle East a decade or two from now is where it's at.

 

[~Darkening~]

Rant enclosed below, not directed at Darkening so much as people who don't listen:

I know its not aimed at me or you have a serious short memory . I dare say you remember the little chat on AIM where I discussed how I would annoy you once a day . Since I failed to see you on AIM that day, I completed my mission by harassing you there .

And, btw, update . (Today's harass taken care of . )

 

[North King]

African wars tend to be rather boring; they are either a cakewalk or drawn-out and indecisive. Not nearly enough militaries in proper shape. Middle East a decade or two from now is where it's at.

Bull. All other modern wars lack any kind of actual fight to them--either you have superpowers afraid to strike a blow due to nukes, or one side utterly outclasses the other. African wars are that curious, almost alchemical mix of modern technology and medieval infrastructure; it's quite interesting from an academic point of view, though of course utterly horrifying from another.