While We Wait: The Next Generation

[Ninja Dude]

*cough**cough*

It too me a while to get this. At least I think I got it.

 

[Crezth]

Cravlarys are fearsum.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Cravlarys are fearsum.

i herd tyeh cood taek ntire plants wit on atacck.

Anyways, who here thinks my little scouting mission in Dread's NES will end in disaster?

 

[germanicus12]

I do. *attempts to raise arm higher and higher and waves it about wildly*

 

[Ninja Dude]

I do. *attempts to raise arm higher and higher and waves it about wildly*

At first I believed that it would end up having awesome results, or terrible ones, but then I looked at the map a little closer. I'd have about 30 minutes total to just check the jungle, and the rest of the time would be spent going to and from the mission. I don't think too much will happen.

 

[Daftpanzer]

Iggy's NESing Graph: Fun versus Complexity



1. Painfully Bad. What the heck is a 'cravlary' and how did 2 it conquer my country in 1 year?
2. Crazy Fun! Penguin Spaceships attacked the Vegetable Overlords on the Moon!
3. The ZPNES threshold: the point at which a NES ceases to be irritatingly unfeasible, and becomes legendarily awesome.
4. An Average NES: Not too realistic, but very fun nonetheless.
5. The Complexity Plateau: The region where, after reaching a certain point of realism, further increases do not significantly improve the fun output, or the increases in fun are counterbalanced by exceedingly elabourate rules and necessarily strict moderation.
6. Horrifying Realization: The point at which you realise that it would have been more satisfying and less time-consuming to do it in real life.

EDIT: Clarification- Point 3 refers to a vertical line traveling through the point- it is the turning point where things to the right become more fun and realistic, and things to the left become more unrealistic and awesome- ZPNES being an example of the awesomeness.

@Lord_Iggy I greatly approve of this. However I think maybe there should be several diffierent curves, for people with different craziness tolerances, EG it may be more of a gradual climb and platuea for some, without the 'fun' spike at lower realism

I know this doesn't really have much to do with WWW, but is there a reason I can’t see Abaddon’s avatar? And Daftpanzer’s one fluctuates… Its shows up and when I got to the next page, its not there.

It is well known that I can only be seen by those with sufficient Ch'i.

 

[Dreadnought]

Update is up. Check the main thread for it.

Things are getting crazy...

 

[germanicus12]

At first I believed that it would end up having awesome results, or terrible ones, but then I looked at the map a little closer. I'd have about 30 minutes total to just check the jungle, and the rest of the time would be spent going to and from the mission. I don't think too much will happen.

Hmmm? Care to repeat that?

Also we may be in the midst of a minor leadership change... voice your concerns.

 

[Kentharu]

I think anything Iggy says is pro
The rest of you are noobs

KENTHARU HAS SPOKEN!

On a more semi-serious note, I will agree with NK, classification of NESing has no real benefit. If you feel like doing it that's fine, but it isn't needed. I won't go on further because I'll just be reiterating NK's points to make myself look smart with a long post.

Also, much of the reason I'm no longer here except in ABNW (and LINES II, start it back iggy damn it) is because, TBH, there aren't that many NESes that interest me. It seems like a chore to start in a new NES because all of them are dull. Or perhaps I'm an old elitist prick and will only wait till das or Dachs starts a NES.
Btw Dachs... START A NES.

 

[~Darkening~]

Posted by Lord_Iggy
@~Dark~- In my defense, I never misspelled a word like that.

When I saw that post I didn't know whether to laugh, cry, or going running into the hills screaming. Then I took a second look, and simply assumed it was a slip of the tongue. As for the spelling mistake, I doubt anyone has come close save for the two poor souls that exist as penance for my soul.

Posted by Kentharu
On a more semi-serious note, I will agree with NK, classification of NESing has no real benefit. If you feel like doing it that's fine, but it isn't needed.

Then why are you agreeing with Iggy's classification?* (Yes I know, technically, it's not a true classification. However noting that it separating and attributing to different categories, I'm still going to use that word).

 

[Ninja Dude]

Hmmm? Care to repeat that?

Also we may be in the midst of a minor leadership change... voice your concerns.

The main scouting party didn't get attacked. It was the people who split from it that got attacked. That was pretty foolish.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Why exactly is it useful? Chandra, your comparison is ridiculous; people who try to raise awareness about global warming are at least doing something useful, global warming being a threat to human prosperity.* Your classifications? Not so useful. You counter that it's your own time you're wasting, well and good. But you're giving people ammunition for inevitable politicization, whether you like it or not. Since you're not providing a positive service, and fueling the negatives, I do consider your work harmful.

You've yet to establish that classification is a waste. Self awareness is a good thing - a lack thereof is a threat to the ever increasing quality of NESing.

I think that the best strategy is to make a good game and mod it well and not worry too much about how to file it.

Yeah, it all comes back to the act of NESing in the end, but it's not like all the time spent meta-NESing is time that would otherwise be spent in NESing itself. The two passtimes are complementary, in my opinion.

Pre-ChaNES seems to be around region 5. I refuse to let is slide back towards point 4, though. I'm prideful like that.

Uh... As to Dr.NES, I always check this thread before I check the NESes I'm participating in. I'm now bracing for a drama-bomb.

 

[Ekolite]

I think (for me at least) the ''Fun spike'' is a bit further to the right, and the ''Realism Plateau'' is more of a downwards slope....

 

[Kal'thzar]

I'm going to assume you mean of the average....

 

[Abaddon]

I am tempted to draw my own graph..

[/img]


As you can see, I don't see unrealistic as necessary unfun.

I enjoy as more reality tho.

BUT. If that means excessive rules.. its negative... Beej at top of curve, previous Carmen NES bottom (sorry, this is how much fun, not how much I value your work!!!!)

Then as stats approahc killing the NES and the point in playing (since the Mod has controlled so much, a Symph like state) the fun collapses.
It is not worth the effort.

 

[das]

a Symph like state

How so? SymNES II died because Symphony didn't update it; for what it's worth it was fun while it lasted and one could not honestly complain that Symphony took away player freedom or any other such demagogic nonsense.

The main problem with his propaganda of the Simulationist method is that he didn't manage to support it with enough positive examples (as yet). Had he done so, people would've understood the directly productive side (as opposed to the critical side) of what he was getting at better and probably would've been far more sympathetic towards those ideas as well. Theorising is not useless as such, but by itself will never be enough; it is ultimately secondary and supplementary, though certainly useful for both analysis and NES design; NESers could only really be led by example, and leading by example is what those of us who care about this should aspire to do.

 

[Thlayli]

The true difficulty of Simulationism is that it requires a very high level of work, or at least a higher level of work than a 'Centrist' NES.

The majority of moderators like to create a self-sustaining system that requires minimal stat upkeep, allowing them to focus on updates. Updates are, and always will be, the core of a NES, and the regularity and quality with which they are delivered is THE deciding factor in a NES's popularity.

Simulationism hasn't been an accepted, imitated form, as Centrism has, because there haven't yet been frequently updated, forum-shaking NESes that have drawn players in and immersed them, as other NESes have. Once players become truly passionate about their nations, a NES has achieved some manner of success. No Simulationist NES has survived long enough to achieve such a 'drawing in,' thus far.

 

[Luckymoose]

When is the next das NES coming?

 

[das]

Simulationism hasn't been an accepted, imitated form, as Centrism has

a) Neither of those are "forms"; Simulationism, in the "Doctrine" sense, is a school of NESing thought; as such, it is not supposed to catch on in any way, but rather is supposed to inspire the creation of "Simulationist" NESes;
b) Centrism has no unifying, defining traits to speak of other than not being covered by any one of the other Chandrasekhar classifications, or rather, seeming not to be covered. Basically it seems to be a cover-all term used for everything that the appraiser doesn't dare to put under one of the other classifications or a combination of two; very few "centrist" NESes are in the actual center, and they certainly aren't a very homogeneous group. There is no Centrist model (there can be, but what would be the point, exactly?).

I have no substantial objections to the core of your post, though, except for the obvious fact that if you want to change that you should go and start a Simulationist NES that works.

When is the next das NES coming?

Nice try.

 

[flyingchicken]

since the Mod has controlled so much, a Symph like state

Comparing the rules of SymNES IIa and DaftNES 2, that should be "a Daft like state;" but then, we all like Daft too much to say that he's more of an iron-fisted dictator than Symphony D., no?

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Spoiler stay away if you don't like incomplete and probably inchoerent and inconsistent thoughts and the whole NESer axes thing! :

RANDOM DRAFT:

The Moderatorive Branch of power in a NES is the executive. The moderator enters that branch after he removed himself from his position as lawmaker in the Ruleslative Branch, which has the power to establish laws which everyone, including the moderator, will follow. The Playeratorial Branch is judicial -- players decide whether a game is good or not, and could veto through non-participation dictatorial changes in the code of laws if the Moderative Branch decides to just change rules at a whim.

A Simulationist game would ideally have a Moderative Branch powerful enough to make appropriate judgment calls for the sake of consistency and/or believability. In an ideal Arcader Game, the moderator never truly leaves the Ruleslative Branch once the game is on. For the Boardgamer, the Moderative Branch is squashed by the Ruleslative, and only when the law is truly game-breaking that he or she would be allowed to re-enter the Ruleslative Branch. The Storyist would have a weak Ruleslative Branch, and a moderately powerful Moderative, if only so that the Playerial won't get too carried away.

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I like classification because it is the backbone of modern society!