While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses

[erez87]

If someone starts a game and I join, they should expect me to invest time in it. If someone joins my NES, I expect them to invest time in it. If I join and invest time, they ought to invest time, too, and if someone invests time in my game, I ought to update, too. This is not a binding agreement, but it's one that should be observed.

And if he doesn't? You will consider him a fraud and reconsider ever trusting him again? Why such harshness? Is that something new in NESing that I didn't see evolve? I had so many NESes that I loved die, and I mourned, but I never went so far as to never trust the mod again. On the contrary, I hope the next time would be greater and longer lasting. I believe in development, not in fraud...ness. I personally don't get it.

But oh well.

 

[Symphony D.]

People paid money for WoW. Of course they will be angry. Also Blizzard is a big company, you are a person playing with internet friends. There are big differences, mostly in the size of the matter.

And all those people with level 80 accounts they've maintained for a decade plus would just be totally fine with it if Blizzard refunded their money then?

Seriously discussed, of course, seriously taken into account sure. But actually going so far as to consider the game a contract and its death some sort of breach of contract?

I'm sorry that you can't discuss things seriously.

If people would have seen failed NESes so hard... I doubt we would have lasted over a few months... Maybe you guys need to view it a little more like when we were teenagers, these are fun games to play, as deep and time consuming as they may get, and they should remain fun games to play. Not social contracts, not in the meaning of actual contracts.

Yes dead NESes are a lot of wasted time, and a lot of lost emotional investment. How did North King once called me? The longest mourner for his dead NESes (I still mourn them), also "like an axe-friendly ex".

 

[Luckymoose]

There are more ways than update count to tell someone's a fraud. There are plenty of mods I do not trust with my time anymore. Time is my most precious resource.

 

[erez87]

Yes, I said so, I take it emotionally hard. But I don't go so far as to stop trusting the person who ran the game and consider him a fraud for taking my time and effort. I gave those out of my own will, and for myself. (If I would, I would probably not NES. So many dead NESes, everywhere).

Yes if Blizzard refunds them, they will get angry, but I don't think Blizzard owes them more than that. I really don't. And I doubt they will stop using Blizzard products. Yap. Doubt that greatly.

i can discuss it seriously. I am seriously trying to understand that contract and frauds view. But I'm getting the feeling it may have something to do with personality traits... But really, no idea. I don't understand that, I seriously don't.


Lucky- sure, I understand that. There are other ways, and update count is probably not one of them. Some people on the forum started "NESes" that really... no one joined for a reason (some joined to make fun of the thread starter).

 

[Lord_Herobrine]

I'm still a teenager.

EDIT: Double post.

 

[Jehoshua]

Erez, I suggest that you drop it and let this discussion slide. As North King said its not for you to dictate how people should enjoy their time, he and others will perceive things their way and you yours. Same to the rest.

 

[Luckymoose]

Lucky- sure, I understand that. There are other ways, and update count is probably not one of them. Some people on the forum started "NESes" that really... no one joined for a reason (some joined to make fun of the thread starter).

I hope you understand that a serious modern NES is a massive investment of time and commitment by players and mod alike? Do you even consider the hundreds of hours put in to a single update of EoE, for example? If the playerbase writes 70,000 words of stories, quality stories, for an update, they better damn well get an update out of it.

 

[erez87]

Erez, I suggest that you drop it and let this discussion slide. As North King said its not for you to dictate how people should enjoy their time, he and others will perceive things their way and you yours. Same to the rest.

I'm not trying to dictate to others how to enjoy their time I am trying to understand other people views, perhaps a little too aggressively?

Lucky - and if you won't get an update. Say NK finds some job that takes too much of his free time to continue the NES. Hypothetically. What will you do? Never join another NES of his?

 

[Jehoshua]

perhaps a little too aggressively?

you don't say...

 

[erez87]

you don't say...

Well sorry to anyone if I was too aggressive it really isn't my aim. Just trying to understand the view of a supposed bad mod as a fraud. It's seems extreme to me.

 

[Jehoshua]

I might try and explain social contract theory to you later if my arbitrary whims compel me to do so or you nag me for it, for now however I suggest you drop it.

 

[Luckymoose]

Lucky - and if you won't get an update. Say NK finds some job that takes too much of his free time to continue the NES. Hypothetically. What will you do? Never join another NES of his?

I wouldn't join another NES of his at this point. It would mean the death of a huge time investment on my part. Why would I be obligated to trust him then? I trust him now because I know his commitment is on par with mine to a single project, and has been for years. That is our social contract.

 

[erez87]

I wouldn't join another NES of his at this point. It would mean the death of a huge time investment on my part. Why would I be obligated to trust him then? I trust him now because I know his commitment is on par with mine to a single project, and has been for years. That is our social contract.

Even if there was a good reason behind it?

Maybe I just went through so many dead NESes that I just learned to sadly accept it? But so did everyone else here, I think.

Joshua I don't think it's social contract theory that I need explained, but the reason people would use it to such extreme here with the games. Or maybe it is social contract theory? I'm confused now.

 

[Symphony D.]

And if he doesn't? You will consider him a fraud and reconsider ever trusting him again? Why such harshness? Is that something new in NESing that I didn't see evolve?

I've maintained a mental list of who not to trust to run games since I joined (an early entry was stalin006) and so apparently have most other people. There's nothing at all new about it. It comes up a lot in the politicking and community-oriented banter. You seem to be saying that you don't hold any opinions about the trustworthiness of others, or indeed any opinions about their abilities at all, regardless of your past experience with them. If that is in fact the case, then yes, I can see how it'd be very hard for you to understand why expressing these relationships in terms of social contract theory isn't extreme. That doesn't change the fact that most of the rest of us are doing it all the time, even if not directly in those terms, and that it's a natural part of the Human condition.

 

[erez87]

I've maintained a mental list of who not to trust to run games since I joined (an early entry was stalin006) and so apparently have most other people. There's nothing at all new about it. It comes up a lot in the politicking and community-oriented banter. You seem to be saying that you don't hold any opinions about the trustworthiness of others, or indeed any opinions about their abilities at all, regardless of your past experience with them. If that is in fact the case, then yes, I can see how it'd be very hard for you to understand why expressing these relationships in terms of social contract theory isn't extreme. That doesn't change the fact that most of the rest of us are doing it all the time, even if not directly in those terms, and that it's a natural part of the Human condition.

I don't know if I have one in a way that I am aware of it. Don't think I do. I'd probably join any NES with a setting and ruleset that I like that doesn't look like some sort of troll-attack.

than again I was always told I'm too trusting and optimistic of humans.

 

[Jehoshua]

You are too trusting and optimistic of humans. Human beings are not blank slates, as scientific inquiry into the mysteries of man increasingly attests.

 

[erez87]

You are too trusting and optimistic of humans. Human beings are not blank slates, as scientific inquiry into the mysteries of man increasingly attests.

Not blank slates indeed, but what does that have to do with being trusting and optimistic of humans? I trust people, I trust NESers more than most humans probably. You guys are awesome.

Although considering how most of us play our countries... Perhaps I should reconsider that...

 

[Luckymoose]

I would add that some of us, like me, care more about the story and IC play than the normal players do. I'm tired of being competitive for competition sake.

 

[Lord of Elves]

We can all agree that listening to erez well, almost ever, is a terrible idea.

Moderator Action: This post, at best, is nothing more than a cheap troll/flame. Especially since it is in isolation and you don’t have any other posts in this immediate conversation. There is a lot of leeway for lighthearted banter in this thread, but this crosses the line into being a jerk.

 

[erez87]

We can all agree that listening to erez well, almost ever, is a terrible idea.

That's what I always tell the kids I teach