Who makes a swastika building? i mean really...

[WillJ]

At the risk of being ridiculed, I'll say that that's letting the Nazis win just like it's letting the terrorists win by becoming scared, panicked, not doing normal day to day things, etc. Politicians say that that's "letting the terrorists win" if we do that and I say that consigning this mathematical, geometric shape to the Politically Correct Index of Forbidden Shapes is "letting the Nazis win." The Catholic Church had an Index of Forbidden Books. We now have in PC land an Index of Forbidden Shapes! Am I the only one who sees how crazy and ridiculous this is?

Well, for one thing, the Nazis aren't winning anything because they're long gone. I guess there are still neo-Nazis, but no one really cares about them.

And even if Hitler and his ilk were still alive, and/or you want to consider the neo-Nazis, their goals include such things as exterminating the Jews and preserving the Aryan race, not perverting the swastica. I don't think Hitler, if he revisited the Earth, would be thinking, "YES! They don't like the swastica! My plan worked!" More like he'd be thinking, "NO! There are still Jews!"

And even if Hitler would think the former and not the latter, should we really care? I mean, he wants a fricking symbol, so we might as well let him have it. That is unless: a) The benefits to use the symbol ourselves are considerable. For example, we're considering using the symbol in a play about traditional Hindu culture, and the swastica would be necessary to be historically correct. b) The costs are low. For example, this building the thread is dedicated to: You can't even tell unless you look from above.

If neither of those are the case, deliberately using the swastica just to upset the reincarnated Hitler would be comparable to being confronted by a man who points a gun at your head and wants $10, and you keep your $10 at the cost of your life. (Okay, that's a bit extreme, but you get the idea.) If someone were to have such strong principles that they refuse to let a thug like this hypothetical man win anything---well, I think they're more crazy than admirable.

Now, the victim in the above scenario gave up his life, so to compare the swastica thing with that would only make sense if there are costs to using the swastica. Well, the cost would simply be people getting offended. You might argue that people shouldn't get offended, because it's just a geometric shape. But I think that's completely wrong; it's not just a geometric shape. It is a symbol, and to strip away all meaning from a symbol and just look at its basic shape is completely ignoring one of the things that makes us human (the creation of symbols in the first place). If it's silly to think "evil" when looking at the swastica, is it equally silly to think "America" when looking at the stars and stripes, or to think "wealth" when looking at a green piece of paper with Geoge Washington on it, or to think "Darn, she's taken" when seeing a beautiful woman with a diamond ring on her ring finger?

About terrorism, that's different because it's actually the objective of terrorists to terrorize. If a Westerner is too afraid to go to an airport, Osama, if he's still alive, probably IS thinking, "YES! My plan worked!" And the benefits of going to an aiport are considerable; the same thing goes for the costs of not doing so.

To be honest, I would not wear a t shirt like that either for the same kinds of reasons, but SOMEONE has to start wearing them SOMEWHERE and when given the opportunity explain why so that EVENTUALLY people WOULDN'T get offended or it wouldn't cause social interaction to be unpleasant. So some brave souls have to start doing it. I'm not that brave. Maybe YOU are

Hehe, I'm not that brave either.

The thing is, though, that eventually the symbolic meaning of symbols goes away. I doubt the swastica is any exception; I imagine in 250 years no one will think twice after seeing a swastica. Sure, if you, I, and a bunch of other people started wearing swastica T-Shirts, that'd speed up the process, but I don't see any reason to bother doing so.

 

[Maniacal]

I just realised all those windmills i built out of lego are swatika shaped.. damn you hitler for ruining it's reputation! *shakes fist*

 

[blackheart]

Thats horrible, I know that it's a religous symbol, but the most recent use of it as a symbol led to the massacre of 60 million innocent people in Europe. Thats horrible, and the building should be destroyed

The most recent used of the American flag has been the War in Iraq which have killed thousands of people, should we destroy all American flags?

1. if you are reffering to it's religious significance, I doubt that America converted en-masse to Buddism anytime in history, so most people have no clue about it's early religious significance and most people in America prior to WWII probably wouldn't think of the swastika as anyhing more than an odd shape, I drew swastikas all the time before I learned about the Nazis, and I did it becaue I liked the shape, but stopped when I found out that it was also a symbol for a gang of murdering thugs.

Let us educate people, rather than living in political correctness and ignorance.

 

[Gelion]

Zoom in all the way and you'll see building arranged in the pattern of a swastika. who disigned this??? Google Map swastika

Kill me if you wish, but I cannot see this swastika....

 

[JtheJackal]

You have to zoom in

 

[Gelion]

Oh I see, I was looking at red signs...
Well its not like many people see this building from the sky

 

[stormbind]

I don't see said shape. What am I looking for?

 

[Quasar1011]

I talked to a guy I work with, who is a navy veteran. He did some reserve duty at that naval base in San Diego, where the swastika building is. He's not sure (since he didn't see the photo), but he thinks the building is the officer billets.

 

[stormbind]

I seem to remember this map featuring in GTA

 

[cidknee]

well according to Mapquest, thats the US naval amphibious Base...i still have to ask my brother hed know.
all those streets there. Theyre mainly named after Islands in the Pacific where Marines fought, Guadalcanal, Tulagi, Bougainville etc.
I will post again when I call my brother.

 

[rbis4rbb]

The most recent used of the American flag has been the War in Iraq which have killed thousands of people, should we destroy all American flags?

The war in Iraq has no correlation with WWII. No matter what you think of George W, Tony Blair, et al., they are nothing like Hitler or his hencmen, who twisted a once peaceful religous symbol into a flaming banner of hate. When the majority of the worlds people see a swastika, I doubt many people associate it with Native American or Buddhist traditions. If a building is no big deal, why not hang a swastika flag outside of your home. I'm sure noone will be offended

 

[Hundegesicht]

What are you talking about? There's no swastika.

Has anyone ever told you that, when mixed with utter stupidity, your incredible arrogance is extremely annoying?

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[amadeus]

WHAT?? So what if he overreacts? I know that the swastika brings back negative images, he is a human and has every right to be appalled.

I question the sentence in bold.

I feel sorry for the people of the Hirosaki Municipality then.

Hirosaki Municipality

 

[Lambert Simnel]

I say that consigning this mathematical, geometric shape to the Politically Correct Index of Forbidden Shapes is "letting the Nazis win."

This is simply ridiculous.

As WillJ says, it is a symbol, and symbols can be incredibly powerful to people - think of how Christians view the cross and how most people react to seeing their national flag (they don't say -"ooh, what pretty colours and interesting geometrical shapes").

The swastika is widely recognised as a symbol of Nazism, and is strongly associated with the Holocaust. You (and most of the other posters in this thread) seem to be prepared to ride roughshod over the feelings of millions of people who lost relatives to Nazism, just so you won't be deprived of one particular geometrical shape ? Good grief. If it really means nothing to you, then surely you can just take the approach of respecting other people's deep held feelings ?

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Back on topic, is Padma the only person who has pointed out that this is actually four buildings, and not a single building in the shape of a swastika at all ?

 

[blackheart]

The swastika is widely recognised as a symbol of Nazism, and is strongly associated with the Holocaust. You (and most of the other posters in this thread) seem to be prepared to ride roughshod over the feelings of millions of people who lost relatives to Nazism, just so you won't be deprived of one particular geometrical shape ? Good grief. If it really means nothing to you, then surely you can just take the approach of respecting other people's deep held feelings ?

It does mean something to me, something like what the cross means to Christians, quite silly but that is how I view it. Should we wallow in the past and live in fear and ignorance of something because we let it haunt us? Or would we rather wipe the stains away and start over with better knowledge and understanding?

 

[Lambert Simnel]

It does mean something to me, something like what the cross means to Christians, quite silly but that is how I view it.

Presuming you are a buddhist and you genuinely view the symbol in the way you suggest, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with your suggestion that those millions who loathe the symbol because of the loss of friends, relatives or community to Nazism are "wallowing in the past and living in fear and ignorance". It strikes me as a remarkably unsympathetic and quite arrogant view which I'm very surprised to hear is held by a Buddhist.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Should we wallow in the past and live in fear and ignorance of something because we let it haunt us? Or would we rather wipe the stains away and start over with better knowledge and understanding?

Forgetting the past is "wiping stains away"? My grandad was a Holocaust survivor (barely). He died before I was born. I don't think it's "living in fear and ignorance" to let his memory (as you would put it) "haunt" me.

There are other Holocaust survivors who are still alive. I don't think you can say that associating the swastika with Nazism is "being politically correct" or "wallowing in the past."

 

[blackheart]

Presuming you are a buddhist and you genuinely view the symbol in the way you suggest, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with your suggestion that those millions who loathe the symbol because of the loss of friends, relatives or community to Nazism are "wallowing in the past and living in fear and ignorance". It strikes me as a remarkably unsympathetic and quite arrogant view which I'm very surprised to hear is held by a Buddhist.

I didn't mean any disrespect towards those who have suffered, but this kinds of falls under the bigger theme of political correctness for me. It is tiring to see political correctness seep into everything, like the current thread about British students not "failing" and those who bombed London not being described as "terrorists."

As for the living in the past part, I think it is true. They cannot bear to see the swastika because it brings back memories of those times. In order to heal and move on, they need to accept that the Nazi regime is long dead, and that the swastika (or what it represents) can no longer reach out and hurt them.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

the current thread about British students not "failing" and those who bombed London not being described as "terrorists."

That is very, very different from this issue. We are talking about the biggest single orchestrated massacre in world history, as far as I know. Not blowing up a few hundred people.

the swastika (or what it represents) can no longer reach out and hurt them.

But there are those who are NOT Buddhists or Hindus but DO want to use it and use "political correctness" as a defense when people attack their neonazism.