[BTS] Who's the best leader for learning the game and why?

[sampsa]

First 6 cities nearly always win (and obviously a city always wins and ) so you should try to get them up as fast as you can. You should never be in a situation where you have only 4 cities at 1AD.

 

[lymond]

I

It'll probably be a while before I go for another AP win but I'll come back to this for sure - because it was fun and it would be cool to learn how to "cheese" it like a pro.


I can feel my game getting stronger already. Pedro suggested running a Emperor game, which I think I will do come Sunday.

LC - One thing I do want to clarify from that particular discussion is that the I wasn't trying to improve your AP gameplay rather than show you the difference between what you did in that game and what I really recommend you focus on now. In other words, the style of an AP game is generally counter to normal optimal gameplay. Regardless, just the screenshot you provided indicated some existing flaws in your game - which is not unexpected at this point anyway.

What you are still missing here is focused guidance and practice of the early game. Something you really won't get until you post of a new game from the start and get advice from Turn 0. That is really the best way to learn.

As for slavery, it takes a some time and practice to get a handle on the concept. I mean I still learn new ways of maximizing the benefit of slavery. Still, you can learn some basics now that will really improve your overall game, and it is really one of the major factors in advancing levels. I will provide link below to a post I submitted a few years ago to help another new player. It's posts within a post, as the post contains 3 links to other specific discussions I created to outline the use of slavery and maximizing whip hammer overflow:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/going-from-noble-tooo.468987/#post-11671673

The key things to note about this discussion other than the maths and basic concepts, is that slavery is a way to convert food into hammers. Granary optimizes this effect as it significantly speeds up growth rate. Slavery and overflow enable you to create huge armies quickly..also combined with chops. But note that workers and settlers are built with food as well as hammers, so early whips of these units is a great way to convert food into hammers. However, I should emphasize that slavery is not always about the overflow. It's about the speed, and early on when you are whipping those workers and settlers it is simply about speeding up the expansion of your empire.

Yes, as Sampsa mentioned, 4 cities at 1AD is not a good thing in most games at all. You should at least target 6 cities by that date, but even that should not be a limiting factor to your expansion. A lot of things in Civ are situational, so you expand according to the land and environment around you, whether peacefully or pointy stick.

I think Prince or Monarch is fine for you next game. I just recommend that you play that game with us here from Turn 0 and get advice every few turns, including before you even start. Post screenshots and the saves.

Again, don't get caught up with difficulty levels, leader traits, or even victory conditions right now. Just focus on the basics. All the other stuff will come in time.

 

[Lazarus_Cato]

I preface the following comment with saying that I do intend on running a forum game, but hopefully you don't mind answering my questions...

I don't have a date, as it is very circumstantial. It will depend on the level of barb aggression, how pressed you are in terms of land, and how much commerce you are able to generate during that time. But my point is that you might want to focus on doing REX. REXing basically means expanding quickly to get as much land as possible as quick as is feasible. This saps a lot of gold in maintenance, but the benefits will greatly surpass the cost. You will want to run the slider at 0% for an extended period of time. As long as you are able to tech alphabet or something to trade for alphabet, you are fine in terms of tech for a long time. Don't worry if you're actually almost going broke.

You don't need great cities, you just need cities with a minimum of food and production. Usually you can wait a bit with settling spots within your own territory. But that will come with experience. I mention 6 cities specifically because you want to aim for at least 6 cities with decent production or food to be able to eventually build/whip universities for oxford in your capitol.

How do you catch up in the tech race after you get alphabet if you're virtually broke? Bureau-cap?

First 6 cities nearly always win (and obviously a city always wins and ) so you should try to get them up as fast as you can. You should never be in a situation where you have only 4 cities at 1AD.

Thanks and see above.

LC - One thing I do want to clarify from that particular discussion is that the I wasn't trying to improve your AP gameplay rather than show you the difference between what you did in that game and what I really recommend you focus on now. In other words, the style of an AP game is generally counter to normal optimal gameplay. Regardless, just the screenshot you provided indicated some existing flaws in your game - which is not unexpected at this point anyway.

What you are still missing here is focused guidance and practice of the early game. Something you really won't get until you post of a new game from the start and get advice from Turn 0. That is really the best way to learn.
[...]
I think Prince or Monarch is fine for you next game. I just recommend that you play that game with us here from Turn 0 and get advice every few turns, including before you even start. Post screenshots and the saves.

I'm going to set one up after this... The only thing is you (and others) will need BAT 4.1. Which I think could be an issue for some as I think most people only run BUG/BULL - I installed BUG fine, but when I tried to install BULL with it I came into issues - I followed the instructions (I think) and I get an error when loading up a game...

Spoiler screen shot :

and after closing that I don't have a UI. All the files I've changed I don't feel confident to change back, but BAT still seems to work fine... So hopefully that works with you guys.

As for slavery, it takes a some time and practice to get a handle on the concept. I mean I still learn new ways of maximizing the benefit of slavery. Still, you can learn some basics now that will really improve your overall game, and it is really one of the major factors in advancing levels. I will provide link below to a post I submitted a few years ago to help another new player. It's posts within a post, as the post contains 3 links to other specific discussions I created to outline the use of slavery and maximizing whip hammer overflow:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/going-from-noble-tooo.468987/#post-11671673

The key things to note about this discussion other than the maths and basic concepts, is that slavery is a way to convert food into hammers. Granary optimizes this effect as it significantly speeds up growth rate. Slavery and overflow enable you to create huge armies quickly..also combined with chops. But note that workers and settlers are built with food as well as hammers, so early whips of these units is a great way to convert food into hammers. However, I should emphasize that slavery is not always about the overflow. It's about the speed, and early on when you are whipping those workers and settlers it is simply about speeding up the expansion of your empire.

I read most of that on the bus and waiting for class today, very informative. I also want to thank you lymond for being especially generous in your replies, I really respect the effort and have learned alot already, I look forward to our forum game.

 

[pigswill]

Its not a problem for people aleady running BAT but its unlikely that people will install BAT especially so you'll be limiting feedback. Your game, your choice.

 

[lymond]

How do you catch up in the tech race after you get alphabet if you're virtually broke? Bureau-cap?

Which I think could be an issue for some as I think most people only run BUG/BULL - I installed BUG fine, but when I tried to install BULL with it I came into issues
.

I would not be overly concerned about "catching up" right now. Honestly, below Monarch, if you are doing things even remotely correctly, including tech path, there should be no reason for "getting behind in tech". AIs get slight bonuses on Prince (neutral on Noble), and bonuses start to ramp up at each level at Monarch and above. As you increase difficulty it is just basically about teching and microing more judiciously, as well as just doing things better overall. Creating a good economy and good use and generation of great people for bulbs and trade missions, will help you stay in the game. This will come as you learn and practice.

Your mention of "virtually broke" is interesting. I would impress on you that your idea of being "broke" may not line up with what experience players would consider "broke". So I and others will get more clued in on what you think is "broke" as we play the forum game with you. But I will say that as long as you are making positive Gold Per Turn (gpt) at 0% research, and not overexpanding early, you are generally in ok shape.

As for BAT, some don't use it, but I certainly do and I know a few others around here that do, so you should be fine with that. As for the issues with the BUG install, which way did you install it? Custom Asset (Single Player)? or Standalone. Note that the custom asset way, which is good for forum games since others player can load it with or without mod, should work fine. If you are having UI issues, that is generally indicative of a conflict somewhere. However, all you have to do is delete the Custom Asset folder. Just navigate to it and delete it. The game generates a fresh Custom Asset folder when you run it again. Then try Installing BUG and BULL again, but this time don't change any files for now and see how it works. I think you may be trying the xml stuff to add the optional features from BULL, but I've found that is not easy or effective. But BAT has it all anyway.

 

[lymond]

LC - Note that I meant BUG and BULL on the reinstall. BAT is not affected

 

[Lazarus_Cato]

Its not a problem for people already running BAT but its unlikely that people will install BAT especially so you'll be limiting feedback. Your game, your choice.

I think it's going to have to be with limited feedback then

Once you get currency you're going to look at an upwards spike in commerce when you have a lot of cities. Your capitol should be all cottaged up (with diligent micromanagement of cottage growth from surrounding cities) with an academy, and yes, you once you reach bureaucracy you should be able to race past your opponents in tech. Especially if you've managed to get a GPfarm up somewhere. Bulbing philosophy into a golden age pacifism is especially effective.

How do you get to currency from alpha if you're only making <5gpt at 0%... or is that a sign you've gone too far?

I would not be overly concerned about "catching up" right now. Honestly, below Monarch, if you are doing things even remotely correctly, including tech path, there should be no reason for "getting behind in tech". AIs get slight bonuses on Prince (neutral on Noble), and bonuses start to ramp up at each level at Monarch and above. As you increase difficulty it is just basically about teching and microing more judiciously, as well as just doing things better overall. Creating a good economy and good use and generation of great people for bulbs and trade missions, will help you stay in the game. This will come as you learn and practice.

Yeah I chose Monarch for my forum game for this reason...

Your mention of "virtually broke" is interesting. I would impress on you that your idea of being "broke" may not line up with what experience players would consider "broke". So I and others will get more clued in on what you think is "broke" as we play the forum game with you. But I will say that as long as you are making positive Gold Per Turn (gpt) at 0% research, and not overexpanding early, you are generally in ok shape.

To me, being virtually broke would be making <5-10gpt at 0%... as I asked monkeybone, is that a sign you've gone too far?

As for BAT, some don't use it, but I certainly do and I know a few others around here that do, so you should be fine with that. As for the issues with the BUG install, which way did you install it? Custom Asset (Single Player)? or Standalone. Note that the custom asset way, which is good for forum games since others player can load it with or without mod, should work fine. If you are having UI issues, that is generally indicative of a conflict somewhere. However, all you have to do is delete the Custom Asset folder. Just navigate to it and delete it. The game generates a fresh Custom Asset folder when you run it again. Then try Installing BUG and BAT again, but this time don't change any files for now and see how it works. I think you may be trying the xml stuff to add the optional features from BULL, but I've found that is not easy or effective. But BAT has it all anyway.

LC - Note that I meant BUG and BULL on the reinstall. BAT is not affected

I did it the Custom Asset (Single Player) way... I prolly won't worry about doing it for this time as it's only my first game and from the initial response I've got from the thread there looks like there will be enough advice to get me on the right track. Thanks tho.

 

[lymond]

Yeah, you will get enough feedback, and I like that it encourages some to install BAT, as I think everyone should use it.

the GPT is situational..kinda depends on the game and what you are trying to do. For instance you may be very aggressive in conquest early which can put one in the hole in terms of GPT, but you do gain gold from capturing cities. So in that case it's about recovering your economy.

However, the fact that your GPT has been rather low in whatever games you are playing may be a sign of some bad choices early on. On lower levels you pay less maintenance, so you really have to over expand/conquest to get that low. I'm not seeing what you are doing yet, so I can't tell. However, over expansion and poorly placed cities, combined with low commerce (cottages, trade routes) are the usual culprits. We can help you with this.

My general advice, is to expand judicially early on before Currency. Where Currency basically represents a new phase for you empire to grow or whatever If possible, try not to settle to far away from your capital and don't be afraid to overlap cities and tile share. If possible, try to ensure a trade route is in place before settling a city, if worker turns allow. Note that rivers in culture and coast in culture connects cities prior to Sailing.

 

[Dewii]

How do you get to currency from alpha if you're only making <5gpt at 0%... or is that a sign you've gone too far?

Assuming you have Writing and Alphabet, build Research in all cities that aren't doing anything urgent. Run scientists in any cities with libraries that haven't got enough hammer tiles or commerce tiles to work.

 

[lymond]

^^^..yeah..ha..and that too, ofc.

 

[diegobueno]

charly magne
evil laugh.mp3

a good leader to start the basics, de gaulle? ind-chr its pretty good, not imbalanced, but ok

 

[lymond]

DeG is a strong leader..one of my favorites combined with great starting techs. I put him in my Top 5, and definitely a Top 10 leader.

 

[diegobueno]

DeG is a strong leader..one of my favorites combined with great starting techs. I put him in my Top 5, and definitely a Top 10 leader.

yes! great starting techs agriculture/the weel, great traits ind/chr, good unit musketeer, ok ub saloon.
amazing leader