Why aren't you all Communists?

[GoodSarmatian]

On second thought, spiking the water supply may be a bad idea becaue everybody requires a different dose and we'd all build up a tolerance.
Maybe regular rallies and public meetings would be better. With MDMA.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

On second thought, spiking the water supply may be a bad idea becaue everybody requires a different dose and we'd all build up a tolerance.
Maybe regular rallies and public meetings would be better. With MDMA.

Note that the MDMA cannot be provided by capitalists, lest the system created be unstable.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Because communism lacks substance where it is critical.
There is no model to follow to navigate the modern world, at all. Just simplistic fundamental ideals.
I like those ideas. But they will smash their heads against large walls, and conquering those walls has to be the high goal of communism. It is not. As all idealist ideologies, it lacks stamina, because people are dicks.
Note, I am not saying communism can not work because people are dicks. It just needs to account for that (and their good sides, naturally). I am saying communism can not transform into a workable instance for the foreseeable future because people are dicks.

Communism will have to wait for the robotic revolution. Not in our life time. But I am convinced Communism will have the last laugh. Just in a more sober and necessary way than its flag bearers imagine in their childish dreams. Mind you, dreams are mostly childish. And also, not because it was impossible, before. Just because humanity was too much of a drag, before.

 

[red_elk]

Now you're talking. Of course, a bigger step would be dosing the drinking water with LSD

Judging by some cartoons for kids, in USSR it was already done.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Because communism lacks substance where it is critical.
There is no model to follow to navigate the modern world, at all. Just simplistic fundamental ideals.
I like those ideas. But they will smash their heads against large walls, and conquering those walls has to be the high goal of communism. It is not. As all idealist ideologies, it lacks stamina, because people are dicks.
Note, I am not saying communism can not work because people are dicks. It just needs to account for that (and their good sides, naturally). I am saying communism can not transform into a workable instance for the foreseeable future because people are dicks.

Circumstances where being a dick is obviously and unavoidably fatal are required. That's why realistic post apocalyptic societies are communist.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I guess this is why pre-historic societies were communist. (Nolan-Joker-voice: they were not)
But okay, they were far more so than capitalism. I suppose.

 

[AdamCrock]

Cybernetic implants ! That will do the trick ! Just think of all the joys and happines we will feel while exposed to a mind control chip in our brain, serving the "Great Collective" and "The Great Comrade" in the sky. Sounds paradise ? Could be .
Seriously what are the probable pro's and con's of becoming hive-mind cyborgs ?

Pro: Due to the nature of the implant (connected with the part of the brain responsible for pleasure) we might feel great pleasure and fullfilment when doing our jobs for the great collective - whatever those might be.
Pro: Increase of the productivity, efficiency and economical groth for the hive-like collective would be enormous !
Pro: Borg ! aka. Resistance is futile !

Con: Borg ! aka. Resistance is futile !
Con: We will not be humans at all
Con: Our lives predetermined and planned from birth
Con: Pleasures illusionary and could be , possibly "switched off" by the "Great Comrade" in the sky. (which would no doubt lead to suicide)
Con: Freedom of will - what is that ?

 

[W|M]

If communism requires drugs, then the legalization of marijuana in certain states is a step towards communism?

REEFER MADNESS is COMMUNISM!!!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I guess this is why pre-historic societies were communist. (Nolan-Joker-voice: they were not)
But okay, they were far more so than capitalism. I suppose.

The consequences were not unavoidable enough. A lone savage could survive, so the incentive to not be a dick was not really sufficient.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

The consequences were not unavoidable enough. A lone savage could survive, so the incentive to not be a dick was not really sufficient.

To survive in a genetic way, which is the only relevant way we are talking about, you need yourself to survive and your newborns, and their children and and and.
That will require not only great skills. But great companionship.
And this companionship had to be played in a group of no more than 100 or 300 individuals for MILLENIA. I am not kidding with the big letters.
Whatever made the human breed - it was people most of all skilled to integrate into a group. Beyond all else.
Whoever's genes will master an apocalypse. It, at least, will ALSO be those genes favoring your butt to get cover in a group, one way or the other.
Loners die
Which you said. But I don't think you realize what that means. We eradicated genetic mass loner strains a long time ago, IMO. And what these days seems as misfits is OF COURSE no measure. Our way of life is totally detached from what constituted a humane life, originally.

So it stands to reason that whoever held the handles in an apocalyptic future, it would be far from those today.

Plastic and water hormones.
Average growth rate of males.
It is just amazing what is going on in the world. And where we came from,

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Problem is that the long term "loner's die out" is insufficient to prevent "for now I'm in charge and I'll take the risk I might get kicked." Getting kicked has to have immediate, obvious, unavoidable, fatal consequences to force a complete rejection of being a dick.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I really think you have not wrapped your mind about what it means to be born and to die with a group of 300 or what people. All naturally focused on enriching your culture, of which a fundamental part is all kinds of ways of survival. Most importantly - a group where everyone know everyone. All through life. With little private space.

My take from this scenario is: There will be all those high school tensions, but not life-threatening scenarios, for the most part. Rather: such tensions will be a normal part of cultural life and will be traditionally dealt with. Those tensions going out of hand, are taken out to the woods to die or remorse. Leaving the community peaceful. If they would not, the community would have eradicated them a long time ago.
That is the truth of survival: The collective decides. The individual follows or freaking dies! Welcome to reality.

Of course our individual minds still strive for individual survival and reject that paradigm. But it is not true. Just natural and useful. On a global level, it is primitive and dumb. Just that the global is only a social construct. Ingrained in us. Deeply. But as you point out - not ultimately.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That group of 300 or so will survive in the genetic sense just as well, and possibly better, if one of them is a dick and keeps the other 299 "in line." And for that one who wants to be a dick the possibility they may be driven out might look "worth the risk." Unless being driven out means an obvious early death.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Being left out means a likely death to your genetic line. No gene code will go that road and persist, I think.

Fundamentally, I think you are prescribing to the psychopath-theory. The theory that every tribe had a few psychopaths as a useful asset because they could push them foreword in times of crisis.

That may be true. I do not know. But even those few ill-adapted where adapted in their own unique way. It is just like with left-handlers. There is an absolute fantastic little clip on youtube about how left-handlers make sense. I think this may interest you and fit your line of reasoning:

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Being left out means a likely death to your genetic line. No gene code will go that road and persist, I think.

Indeed, but for it to actually be bred out requires that it indeed never works. Unfortunately, I suspect that being a dick has always worked. Far more often than the guy who took a chance and proclaimed himself "in charge" got drummed out of the group he was likely met with "well, okay, I guess."

 

[Hygro]

Judging by some cartoons for kids, in USSR it was already done.

This reminds of that one time I took an ambien.

 

[Hygro]

I'm going to reiterate the claim I made back on like page 3 where I said communism is free time.

Volume 3 of Capital, Marx suggests if we man the machines 20 hours a week, that's pretty much emancipation.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Indeed, but for it to actually be bred out requires that it indeed never works. Unfortunately, I suspect that being a dick has always worked. Far more often than the guy who took a chance and proclaimed himself "in charge" got drummed out of the group he was likely met with "well, okay, I guess."

I am starting to be confused weather I or you got sth wrong. Your win, I guess.
I lived in some tight-knitted groups. There is my elimentary group. There is my 5-class group. There is my 6-class group when I changed schools to German higher education schools (just saying because not every country got that two-tier-system), there is my 7-10 group when I changed classes, there os my 10-12 groups when I changed classes due to an abroad year, there are my university groups to numerous to count, there are about two previous work groups any my current work group I have maintained for now two years. There are other small social groups.

I in those groups, I have experienced a few disruptives holding on to power. None were stable. None.
Stableness only arose in a climate of mutual respect.
Primitive communities are based on private relationships. They got no bureaucracy or whatever. They need to work, personally. And they did. Because it is not that hard.

Okay I remember. I got it right

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I lived in a small isolated society on a submarine. It had a very obvious structure. It also had a much less obvious structure. Rising to the top of either structure was not really made more difficult by being a dick. There was no risk to being a dick, other than being cast into the lowest caste, which was reserved for failed dicks.

I lived in a small isolated society in prison for years. While being a dick didn't work there, at all, it illustrates my point that consequences both immediate and fatal are the only thing that prevents dickishness from being tried.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I wanted to say first. But very first: screw tipping. First:

I lived in a small isolated society in prison for years.

Hahahaha... what?

T E L L M E M O A R
And better make it convincing before I deem myself a crazy boy falling victim for some crazy person. I am serious. Maybe you are crazy 50something old man living in a wood-home in the middle of hot southern United States telling me bullfeathers because it excites.

Well, for your comfort, deceiving American Sir, I am an end-20s hot German man feeling very conflicted about his career path. But who doesn't.
May we now exchange adresses of our 12 year olds virgin daughters?
This is all very weird if you think about it.
And I generally dislike the use of "weird" or "if you think about it".