Why aren't you all Communists?

[red_elk]

But you can not use that statement to conclude that I am against communism as a concept. Just because Russians have not managed to figure out how to implement communism without destroying everything in the process doesn't mean that it can't be done.

I just find it a bit funny that you insist Russians actually implemented communism in Poland, while Russians deny it

At least famous Khruschev statement in 22-nd CPSU congress, that "The current generation of Soviet people will live under communism" suggests that he didn't think communism was already implemented.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_in_20_years

 

[red_elk]

From wiki:

A socialist state or socialist republic (sometimes Workers' State) refers to any state that is constitutionally dedicated to the establishment of socialism. In Western usage, the term "Communist state" is often used in reference to single-party socialist states governed by parties adhering to a variant of Marxism–Leninism; however these states officially refer to themselves as "socialist states" that are in the process of building socialism and do not describe themselves as "communist" or as having achieved communism.[1][2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_state

 

[warpus]

Well it sure as hell sounds like that's what you are saying.

Next time go by what I'm saying, not what you think what I'm saying "sounds like".

@red_elk A Russian trying to convince me that Poland was never communist is one of the funniest things that's happened to me this year. Keep it up, maybe you have more jokes up your sleeve

 

[Lohrenswald]

Communists should drop the Communist label and figure something else out to call themselves.

I may be wrong, but it's my impression that as the 1800's progressed along, the term "communism" was being used less and less until eventually being replaced basically entierly by "socialism", and then during the russian revolution the bolsheviks revived the "communism" name to distance themselves from like the second internationale or what have you

and that this eventually led to the understanding of the terms as "socialism is the path to communism", and that these words weren't used this way in the 1800's

of course I'm probably wrong

 

[Lexicus]

I may be wrong, but it's my impression that as the 1800's progressed along, the term "communism" was being used less and less until eventually being replaced basically entierly by "socialism", and then during the russian revolution the bolsheviks revived the "communism" name to distance themselves from like the second internationale or what have you

and that this eventually led to the understanding of the terms as "socialism is the path to communism", and that these words weren't used this way in the 1800's

of course I'm probably wrong

I don't know too much about the etymology of these words. My guess would be that "Communism" came into greater use with the prominence of Marxism (second half of the 1800s). Socialism was a social and political force (in that there were people who called themselves socialists, and who argued for radical change to existing institutions) before Marx came into the picture at all.

The idea of socialism as the path to Communism definitely comes from Marxism.

As for the Bolshies reviving Communism to use in contrast to Socialism, I have no idea.

 

[red_elk]

@red_elk A Russian trying to convince me that Poland was never communist is one of the funniest things that's happened to me this year.

... and a bunch of non-Russian people agreed with him. I though that might ring a bell, but no luck.

 

[Lohrenswald]

@Lexicus I definately remember reading something from Engels from when he was old about how at that time people had stopped saying communism and started saying social democracy

 

[Traitorfish]

As for the Bolshies reviving Communism to use in contrast to Socialism, I have no idea.

Essentially a bit of branding that got a way from them. They adopted the name "Communist" in 1918 to assert an identity distinct from both the social democrats and the Socialist Revolutionaries, and the term itself was picked to suggest a return to the more explicitly revolutionary spirit of the Marx Manifesto. Lenin made half-hearted attempts to tie it his theory of an "upper" and "lower" stage of socialism, but it wasn't widely used, and when it was, tended to be directly synonymous with "socialism", which was itself synonymous with "social democracy". After a few years, the split between the social democrats and the Communists had hardened, and the name began to acquire all sorts of connotations that hadn't been there in 1918.

 

[REDY]

In school we have been teached of theory that there are two phases, socialism which is phase of getting rid of capitalism (around 1960 CS president Novotny said that we are finally socialist) and communism is just final phase, without ownership, families, religions, countries etc. Communist state/country is therefore oxymoron. Ofc people called regime communist and its collaborators communists, but people who actually were reading marx and lenin called it socialism. There was also movement of Czechoslovak communitsled by Dubček, calling for socialism with a human face.

 

[warpus]

The setting: The year is 2406. Humanity has colonized the inner solar system and has entered a new age of enlightenment.

Location: New Moscow, in orbit around Venus

RoboStalin: Comrades, we are gathered here today to usher in a new era of human societal sophistication. In the past several centuries we have managed to eliminate social class, money, most of the state, and the means of production is now almost fully in the hands of the public.

It has been a long road, and we have finally today reached an important milestone towards our end goal. Today I am happy to announce that the means of production are now much further along towards public ownership than they were was a couple weeks ago. With the signing of the new "A step closer towards Communism" Act, I can proudly announce that all workers around the solar system can celebrate in this glorious leap forward towards eventual communism.

Comrades, let us all celebrate this glorious moment by together joining hands and singing the great anthem of our glorious collective:

"This is not communism yet, but we're working on it"

 

[aelf]

Utopia is a journey, not a place.

 

[AdamCrock]

Utopia is a journey, not a place.

How so ? Please elaborate.
For me Utopia (in short) is a mythical system of government which was first born as an idea in the minds of ancient philosophers.

 

[red_elk]

'And only one for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'

'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

 

[warpus]

If communism is some far-away fantastical state of mind that can only be reached by jumping through an infinite number of hoops, then sorry guys, we'll never really have communism. Might as well abandon ship now and get with the program.

 

[Lexicus]

I'm going to reiterate the claim I made back on like page 3 where I said communism is free time.

 

[red_elk]

If humans never landed on Mars yet, it doesn't mean Mars is unreachable for them.

 

[Honor]

Because communism requires high oxytocin activity. Yes, it is about human nature. Less hierarchical, more equal, more romantic societies are invariably weaker than those breeding all sorts of monsters, because they are founded on happiness rather than survival. So, invariably, they fall.

I am a communist/humanist/romantic at heart. I don't see it happening yet.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Because communism requires high oxytocin activity.

Ah, I haven't even considered oxytocin.
I thought real Communism required some scifi tech like brain implants, but maybe we just need to put the right drugs into the drinking water.

 

[galdre]

If communism requires drugs, then the legalization of marijuana in certain states is a step towards communism?

 

[Lexicus]

If communism requires drugs, then the legalization of marijuana in certain states is a step towards communism?

Now you're talking. Of course, a bigger step would be dosing the drinking water with LSD