Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

Japanrocks12

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I'm not sure if this has made its rounds onto here, but several of my friends have already seen and commented on it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math whizzes and music prodigies, what it's like inside the family, and whether they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I've done it. Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:

• attend a sleepover

• have a playdate

• be in a school play

• complain about not being in a school play

• watch TV or play computer games

• choose their own extracurricular activities

• get any grade less than an A

• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

• play any instrument other than the piano or violin

• not play the piano or violin.

I'm using the term "Chinese mother" loosely. I know some Korean, Indian, Jamaican, Irish and Ghanaian parents who qualify too. Conversely, I know some mothers of Chinese heritage, almost always born in the West, who are not Chinese mothers, by choice or otherwise. I'm also using the term "Western parents" loosely. Western parents come in all varieties.

All the same, even when Western parents think they're being strict, they usually don't come close to being Chinese mothers. For example, my Western friends who consider themselves strict make their children practice their instruments 30 minutes every day. An hour at most. For a Chinese mother, the first hour is the easy part. It's hours two and three that get tough.

When it comes to parenting, the Chinese seem to produce children who display academic excellence, musical mastery and professional success - or so the stereotype goes. WSJ's Christina Tsuei speaks to two moms raised by Chinese immigrants who share what it was like growing up and how they hope to raise their children.

Despite our squeamishness about cultural stereotypes, there are tons of studies out there showing marked and quantifiable differences between Chinese and Westerners when it comes to parenting. In one study of 50 Western American mothers and 48 Chinese immigrant mothers, almost 70% of the Western mothers said either that "stressing academic success is not good for children" or that "parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun." By contrast, roughly 0% of the Chinese mothers felt the same way. Instead, the vast majority of the Chinese mothers said that they believe their children can be "the best" students, that "academic achievement reflects successful parenting," and that if children did not excel at school then there was "a problem" and parents "were not doing their job." Other studies indicate that compared to Western parents, Chinese parents spend approximately 10 times as long every day drilling academic activities with their children. By contrast, Western kids are more likely to participate in sports teams.

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning, which is where Western parents tend to give up. But if done properly, the Chinese strategy produces a virtuous circle. Tenacious practice, practice, practice is crucial for excellence; rote repetition is underrated in America. Once a child starts to excel at something—whether it's math, piano, pitching or ballet—he or she gets praise, admiration and satisfaction. This builds confidence and makes the once not-fun activity fun. This in turn makes it easier for the parent to get the child to work even more.

Chinese parents can get away with things that Western parents can't. Once when I was young—maybe more than once—when I was extremely disrespectful to my mother, my father angrily called me "garbage" in our native Hokkien dialect. It worked really well. I felt terrible and deeply ashamed of what I had done. But it didn't damage my self-esteem or anything like that. I knew exactly how highly he thought of me. I didn't actually think I was worthless or feel like a piece of garbage.

As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the remaining guests.

The fact is that Chinese parents can do things that would seem unimaginable—even legally actionable—to Westerners. Chinese mothers can say to their daughters, "Hey fatty—lose some weight." By contrast, Western parents have to tiptoe around the issue, talking in terms of "health" and never ever mentioning the f-word, and their kids still end up in therapy for eating disorders and negative self-image. (I also once heard a Western father toast his adult daughter by calling her "beautiful and incredibly competent." She later told me that made her feel like garbage.)

Chinese parents can order their kids to get straight As. Western parents can only ask their kids to try their best. Chinese parents can say, "You're lazy. All your classmates are getting ahead of you." By contrast, Western parents have to struggle with their own conflicted feelings about achievement, and try to persuade themselves that they're not disappointed about how their kids turned out.

I've thought long and hard about how Chinese parents can get away with what they do. I think there are three big differences between the Chinese and Western parental mind-sets.

First, I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't. They assume strength, not fragility, and as a result they behave very differently.

For example, if a child comes home with an A-minus on a test, a Western parent will most likely praise the child. The Chinese mother will gasp in horror and ask what went wrong. If the child comes home with a B on the test, some Western parents will still praise the child. Other Western parents will sit their child down and express disapproval, but they will be careful not to make their child feel inadequate or insecure, and they will not call their child "stupid," "worthless" or "a disgrace." Privately, the Western parents may worry that their child does not test well or have aptitude in the subject or that there is something wrong with the curriculum and possibly the whole school. If the child's grades do not improve, they may eventually schedule a meeting with the school principal to challenge the way the subject is being taught or to call into question the teacher's credentials.

If a Chinese child gets a B—which would never happen—there would first be a screaming, hair-tearing explosion. The devastated Chinese mother would then get dozens, maybe hundreds of practice tests and work through them with her child for as long as it takes to get the grade up to an A.

Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child can get them. If their child doesn't get them, the Chinese parent assumes it's because the child didn't work hard enough. That's why the solution to substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child. The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take the shaming and to improve from it. (And when Chinese kids do excel, there is plenty of ego-inflating parental praise lavished in the privacy of the home.)

Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The reason for this is a little unclear, but it's probably a combination of Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and done so much for their children. (And it's true that Chinese mothers get in the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training, interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying them and making them proud.

By contrast, I don't think most Westerners have the same view of children being permanently indebted to their parents. My husband, Jed, actually has the opposite view. "Children don't choose their parents," he once said to me. "They don't even choose to be born. It's parents who foist life on their kids, so it's the parents' responsibility to provide for them. Kids don't owe their parents anything. Their duty will be to their own kids." This strikes me as a terrible deal for the Western parent.

Third, Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their children and therefore override all of their children's own desires and preferences. That's why Chinese daughters can't have boyfriends in high school and why Chinese kids can't go to sleepaway camp. It's also why no Chinese kid would ever dare say to their mother, "I got a part in the school play! I'm Villager Number Six. I'll have to stay after school for rehearsal every day from 3:00 to 7:00, and I'll also need a ride on weekends." God help any Chinese kid who tried that one.

Don't get me wrong: It's not that Chinese parents don't care about their children. Just the opposite. They would give up anything for their children. It's just an entirely different parenting model.

Here's a story in favor of coercion, Chinese-style. Lulu was about 7, still playing two instruments, and working on a piano piece called "The Little White Donkey" by the French composer Jacques Ibert. The piece is really cute—you can just imagine a little donkey ambling along a country road with its master—but it's also incredibly difficult for young players because the two hands have to keep schizophrenically different rhythms.

Lulu couldn't do it. We worked on it nonstop for a week, drilling each of her hands separately, over and over. But whenever we tried putting the hands together, one always morphed into the other, and everything fell apart. Finally, the day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she was giving up and stomped off.

"Get back to the piano now," I ordered.

"You can't make me."

"Oh yes, I can."

Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu's dollhouse to the car and told her I'd donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn't have "The Little White Donkey" perfect by the next day. When Lulu said, "I thought you were going to the Salvation Army, why are you still here?" I threatened her with no lunch, no dinner, no Christmas or Hanukkah presents, no birthday parties for two, three, four years. When she still kept playing it wrong, I told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.

Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her—and that he didn't think threatening Lulu was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the technique—perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet—had I considered that possibility?

"You just don't believe in her," I accused.

"That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."

"Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."

"But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.

"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."

I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.

Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together—her right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing—just like that.

Lulu realized it the same time I did. I held my breath. She tried it tentatively again. Then she played it more confidently and faster, and still the rhythm held. A moment later, she was beaming.

"Mommy, look—it's easy!" After that, she wanted to play the piece over and over and wouldn't leave the piano. That night, she came to sleep in my bed, and we snuggled and hugged, cracking each other up. When she performed "The Little White Donkey" at a recital a few weeks later, parents came up to me and said, "What a perfect piece for Lulu—it's so spunky and so her."

Even Jed gave me credit for that one. Western parents worry a lot about their children's self-esteem. But as a parent, one of the worst things you can do for your child's self-esteem is to let them give up. On the flip side, there's nothing better for building confidence than learning you can do something you thought you couldn't.

There are all these new books out there portraying Asian mothers as scheming, callous, overdriven people indifferent to their kids' true interests. For their part, many Chinese secretly believe that they care more about their children and are willing to sacrifice much more for them than Westerners, who seem perfectly content to let their children turn out badly. I think it's a misunderstanding on both sides. All decent parents want to do what's best for their children. The Chinese just have a totally different idea of how to do that.

Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.

Personally, I feel that although there are takeaway points to be made from this article, the woman's attitude regarding her parenting is absolutely hideous. Even worse, she knows exactly what she is doing and relishes in it. There are some components to her methods that operate the same exact way as child abuse does.

I am not a parent, but I would like to be one some day. I have already brainstormed what I will and will not do based on what I feel are the successes and failures of my own's parents' approach to parenting. I am about as diametrically opposed to the author's approach as one can be, because it presupposes that a young child's natural legitimate desires are completely meaningless, only the ones implanted in his or her head by her parents. I cannot get over the woman telling her kids that they can't be in the school play, for instance. That would be unthinkable to me. If my children had talent in acting, directing, dramaturgy, being a thespian, or various other things related to the stage and unrelated to the sciences and to classical music, why is it a good idea for me to discourage it?

I would like anyone who will just post "Chinese kids are all successful, so this woman's methods work" to develop a more nuanced position and enumerate it here, since I have personally heard (and so have many others in this forum, I gather) that line a thousand times and it's time to break down what it really means.
 
I don't know anything about parenting so I can't really judge her. Everyone I've ever spoken to about parenting has told me they have no idea what they're doing and 99 times out of a hundred it's all just made up on the spot.

P.S. who else reads "recital" as "rectal"?
 
I remember I read an article a few months ago where a western employer based in China complained that many of the Chinese students were useless because they were socially ********. They were little more than calculators. I can't find the article unfortunately.
 
This was posted before, I can't find the thread, though.

I remember I read an article a few months ago where a western employer based in China complained that many of the Chinese students were useless because they were socially ********. They were little more than calculators. I can't find the article unfortunately.
You may have forgotten spoiled brats.
 
Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.

None of these things are mutually exclusive. Try respecting their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, letting them see what they're capable of, supporting their choices, providing positive reinforcement, preparing them for the future, and also arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.
 
I cringed a bit at the article and wouldn't want to treat my kids that way at all, my mother is native chinese but allowed me to pursue whatever I wanted as long as it would give a ultimately comfortable life.

I read this article the other day, and found it, it comments on the school systems of the US to China:

China’s Winning Schools?
An international study published last month looked at how students in 65 countries performed in math, science and reading. The winner was: Confucianism!

At the very top of the charts, in all three fields and by a wide margin, was Shanghai. Three of the next top four performers were also societies with a Confucian legacy of reverence for education: Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea. The only non-Confucian country in the mix was Finland.

The United States? We came in 15th in reading, 23rd in science and 31st in math.

I’ve been visiting schools in China and Asia for more than 20 years (and we sent our own kids briefly to schools in Japan, which also bears a Confucian imprint), and I’ve spent much of that time either envious or dumbfounded. I’ll never forget pulling our 2-year-old son out of his Tokyo nursery school so we could visit the States and being handed a form in which we had to list: “reason for proposed vacation.”

Education thrives in China and the rest of Asia because it is a top priority — and we’ve plenty to learn from that.

Granted, Shanghai’s rise to the top of the global charts is not representative of all China, for Shanghai has the country’s best schools. Yet it’s also true that China has made remarkable improvements in the once-awful schools in peasant areas.

Just 20 years ago, children often dropped out of elementary school in rural areas. Teachers sometimes could barely speak standard Mandarin, which, in theory, is the language of instruction.

These days, even in backward rural areas, most girls and boys alike attend high school. College isn’t unusual. And the teachers are vastly improved. In my Chinese-American wife’s ancestral village — a poor community in southern China — the peasant children are a grade ahead in math compared with my children at an excellent public school in the New York area. That seems broadly true of math around the country.

For a socialist system that hesitates to fire people, China has also been surprisingly adept — more so than America — at dealing with ineffective teachers. Chinese principals can’t easily dismiss teachers, but they can get extra training for less effective teachers, or if that doesn’t work, push them into other jobs.

“Bad teachers can always be made gym teachers,” a principal in the city of Xian explained to me as she showed me around her kindergarten. In China, school sports and gym just don’t matter.

(That kindergarten exemplified another of China’s strengths: excellent early childhood education, typically beginning at age 2. Indeed, the only element of China’s education system that really falters badly is the university system. Colleges are third-rate and should be a national disgrace.)

But this is the paradox: Chinese themselves are far less impressed by their school system. Almost every time I try to interview a Chinese about the system here, I hear grousing rather than praise. Many Chinese complain scathingly that their system kills independent thought and creativity, and they envy the American system for nurturing self-reliance — and for trying to make learning exciting and not just a chore.

In Xian, I visited Gaoxin Yizhong, perhaps the city’s best high school, and the students and teachers spoke wistfully of the American emphasis on clubs, arts and independent thought. “We need to encourage more creativity,” explained Hua Guohong, a chemistry teacher. “We should learn from American schools.”

One friend in Guangdong Province says he will send his children to the United States to study because the local schools are a “creativity-killer.” Another sent his son to an international school to escape what he likens to “programs for trained seals.” Private schools are sprouting everywhere, and many boast of a focus on creativity.

For my part, I think the self-criticisms are exactly right, but I also deeply admire the passion for education and the commitment to making the system better. And while William Butler Yeats was right that “education is not filling a bucket but lighting a fire,” it’s also true that it’s easier to ignite a bonfire if there’s fuel in the bucket.

The larger issue is that the greatest strength of the Chinese system is the Confucian reverence for education that is steeped into the culture. In Chinese schools, teachers are much respected, and the most admired kid is often the brain rather than the jock or class clown.

Americans think of China’s strategic challenge in terms of, say, the new Chinese stealth fighter aircraft. But the real challenge is the rise of China’s education system and the passion for learning that underlies it. We’re not going to become Confucians, but we can elevate education on our list of priorities without relinquishing creativity and independent thought.

That’s what we did in 1957 after the Soviet Union launched Sputnik. These latest test results should be our 21st-century Sputnik.

Source
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/opinion/16kristof.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=chinese%20school&st=cse

Its a good read, and I agree with the article, I rkn relentless hours of studying just kills creativity. I've met plenty of people born and raised western style (I'm Australian) who turn out just fine and motivated, studying way way too hard is frowned upon actually around my circle of friends :P
 
Maybe the method as described in the OP does work in achieving what it sets out to achieve. It evidently has for the author. What is the worry here is what it is attempting to achieve, which seems misguided. It may produce a child prodigy, sure. But at what cost? In the SMH article on this subject, the following was written:
Local child experts such as Vera Auerbach, a psychologist in Hurstville who works with a number of high-achieving Asian students in her practice, said Chua's approach to parenting was emotionally abusive.

''To threaten to burn your children's stuffed toys - as she does - if they don't do their music practice is emotionally damaging.

''I see many 17-year-olds wanting to kill themselves because they feel their parents just care about how they do in the HSC. I understand it's good to have high expectations of your children, but if in the end the child ends up suicidal and kills themselves that is not a good outcome."
That cost is far too high.

And that's not mentioning the lack of what is perhaps a lack of necessary focus on areas other than academia.

Overall, I'm generally a fan of parents investing in their child's future, and actually caring about their education, but children should always experience love from their parents, and I would think what they do should be positively reinforced.
 
I fully expect a reaction down the road from that generation having been "Chinese mothered". Once that generation feels socially and economically secure enough, leading exponents are as likely to turn into inner-child self-fulfillment gurus as to stick to Chinese mom's regime of self-abnegation and sacrifice. From somewhere the spark is going to come in the little question of: "Why are we doing this? Really? To ourselves and our kids? Just to keep up with the Jonses?"

And some of the Chinese mother choices of what kids should and should not do are plain ********. I don't forsee a great demand specifially for obedient children who can play the violin. As if being in a school play wouldn't require self-discipline and work, if done properly? Chinese mom might do as well to demand her sprog to play nothing but the lead, and really work in it. Otoh acting like that might requrie such things as a bit of talent, ability to cooperate and a smidge of charisma. Which might mean it's easier for Chinese mom to deny some of her offsprings limitations, by sticking to such things that can be overcome mostly by self-denying effort. As if playing the piano with skill would be more difficult than handling an electric guitar anyway?

The point which I think sticks, is that it's excellent to learn how to learn, and to acquire self-discipline. (Then again with Chinese mom pushing you, who knows how much of that there really is? the ability to put up with an imposed punishing regime: yup; self-discipline without Chinese mon: dunno really...).

Let Chinese mom work at this for a while, and she will start to encounter what Japanese mom already has: the otaku phenomenon. Kids who become recluses and shut themselves away from the world as a way to drop out and escape mom´s/society´s demands through the quietest form of protest possible.
 
As if playing the piano with skill would be more difficult than handling an electric guitar anyway?
Electric guitars inevitably lead to sex, drugs and rock-n-roll. Though it's rap nowadays, which is much worse if anything. They lead to disobedient, lazy kids who don't respect their parents.
 
Irish parents?!?!?!

Maybe Irish ex-pats/emigrants? We're a lot more efficient as a race when we're not in Ireland.

I remember I read an article a few months ago where a western employer based in China complained that many of the Chinese students were useless because they were socially ********. They were little more than calculators. I can't find the article unfortunately.

But what if you force them to do drama, public speaking or some other sort of charismatic pursuit? Social skills can be taught too.

Thats in China too, which I would say has different educational values to the West. I mean look at that Hu guy - seems dour as a plank but is a hydraulic engineer.
 
Electric guitars inevitably lead to sex, drugs and rock-n-roll. Though it's rap nowadays, which is much worse if anything. They lead to disobedient, lazy kids who don't respect their parents.
Yes, dat's der bunny with Chinese mom I would think. She's not just interested in having a high-performing offspring. She want's one who subjects itself to Authority.
 
RE: the piano playing parts of it. Reminds me of the autobiography I read of Lang Lang, the Chinese painist. A ridiculously callous and overbearing dad worked for him, too. But that's a rare case. Most children are not going to be able to stand up to such pressure. Making a child detest the instrument they play is a very cruel thing to do, IMO. This method would surely do that 90% of the time.
 
Yeah, but huge-pressure parents? That's news to me...

Me too, I just can't account for Irish-Americans.

Ghanain too? Seems like some of those nationalities were just pulled out of a hat.
 
But what if you force them to do drama, public speaking or some other sort of charismatic pursuit? Social skills can be taught too.

Probably to an extent, but this Chua woman wouldn't even allow her children to be in a play, or even complain about it. :dunno::dunno::dunno:

What a moronic woman.
 
RE: the piano playing parts of it. Reminds me of the autobiography I read of Lang Lang, the Chinese painist. A ridiculously callous and overbearing dad worked for him, too. But that's a rare case. Most children are not going to be able to stand up to such pressure. Making a child detest the instrument they play is a very cruel thing to do, IMO. This method would surely do that 90% of the time.
I think Chinese moms comeback would be that her kid is actually Special, despite her protests in the article about that kind of thinking in Western Parenting.
 
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