Why did God create atheists?

[Elrohir]

Maybe cause he's so bitter. If a girl told me "If you don't date me I will torture you for all eternity" I wouldn't be too enamored with her either.

It's more like "You are going to go to hell because of what you've done - but you don't have to, just choose not to!" Seems more like a plea to reason than blackmail to me.

 

[ironduck]

Everyone deserves hell. You, me, Johnny Depp, whoever. We're all imperfect and flawed humans who need to be saved by Christ.

I deserve hell? What is this 'hell' you think I deserve, and who are you to cast such judgement on me?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Maybe cause he's so bitter. If a girl told me "If you don't date me I will torture you for all eternity" I wouldn't be too enamored with her either.

If you have a child would you want your own children to grow up being well, good and honest adults or you allow them to do as they please becomiinf spilot, obnocixious and illbehaved ?

 

[ironduck]

It is interesting how your double-speak actually brings out a Biblical truth. Yes, from God's perspective (outside of time), the problem of evil has already been solved. From our perspective (along our universe's timeline), it has not. We are still trying to get from point A (the introduction of evil) to point B (evil's final demise). Most of us cannot see or fathom point B, but it is there- along our timeline, in the future. We are living in God's plan to resolve this question. But, to say the problem of evil does not exist... well, buddy, look at the world around you!

Woah - *I* double speak? You are the one who is telling me about this 'god' who has a plan. I have not seen you show me in any way how this god exists or how he may have a plan of any sort. I'm simply going by what you say. If there is a god and this god knows everything, there is no problem to solve. It's really that simple - you don't need to twist your own logic. If this god knows how to avoid evil why introduce it in the first place? Why make people suffer under it? Sounds like sadism to me.

 

[Narz]

It's more like "You are going to go to hell because of what you've done - but you don't have to, just choose not to!" Seems more like a plea to reason than blackmail to me.

A plea to reason? If he didn't want us to go to hell why the hell did he create it??

And don't give me that free-will bunk, that still doesn't explain why He created it. He could've created humans that could fly by willpower instead and given us the free will to choose that or not.

And on the subject of free will, if God cherishes it so much why don't we have the free-will to leave hell wherever we want?

 

[Narz]

If you have a child would you want your own children to grow up being well, good and honest adults or you allow them to do as they please becomiinf spilot, obnocixious and illbehaved ?

That has no relation to what you quoted but I'll reply anyway.

I would want them to be disciplined and strong yes but I wouldn't threaten to put them in the oven if they were bad.

 

[ironduck]

And on the subject of free will, if God cherishes it so much why don't we have the free-will to leave hell wherever we want?

Since I'm one of the screw-ups I sure would like that

Dude! We need a get-out-of-hell-free card!

 

[Quasar1011]

Interesting theory. So basically what you're saying is that everything is already predestined. The movie is playing (so to speak) and no one can change the storyline (including God). So basically God only ever had power in the very beginning when he set the game in motion and now he is just an innocent bystander watching his drama unfold, even more powerless to change things than the average Joe (because at least we have free will)? Right.

No. Basically what I am saying, is that to grasp this concept, you need to think outside your timeline. This can be done, as mathematicians and physicists have demonstrated through string theory. However, we cannot act outside our timeline. God can.

God still intervenes in our timeline, however, even today. He heals the sick. He changes people's hearts. He rescues people from certain death. None of this is pre-determined. God not only can be in 2 places at the same time, He can be in 2 times at the same place!

 

[vbraun]

No. Basically what I am saying, is that to grasp this concept, you need to think outside your timeline. This can be done, as mathematicians and physicists have demonstrated through string theory. However, we cannot act outside our timeline. God can.

God still intervenes in our timeline, however, even today. He heals the sick. He changes people's hearts. He rescues people from certain death. None of this is pre-determined. God not only can be in 2 places at the same time, He can be in 2 times at the same place!

Then couldn't he do this to everybody? Has God saved your life? Changed you heart? Heal you if your sick? If so this might be the answer to the common cold!

 

[Quasar1011]

If there is a god and this god knows everything, there is no problem to solve. It's really that simple - you don't need to twist your own logic. If this god knows how to avoid evil why introduce it in the first place? Why make people suffer under it? Sounds like sadism to me.

Talk about twisting logic! I have stated my case that God did not introduce evil, but He created the one who did. Why are you upset with God, instead of Satan? Why not blame Satan for "making people suffer under it"? Why not call Satan the sadist? Why do you hate God?

 

[ironduck]

No. Basically what I am saying, is that to grasp this concept, you need to think outside your timeline. This can be done, as mathematicians and physicists have demonstrated through string theory. However, we cannot act outside our timeline. God can.

God still intervenes in our timeline, however, even today. He heals the sick. He changes people's hearts. He rescues people from certain death. None of this is pre-determined. God not only can be in 2 places at the same time, He can be in 2 times at the same place!

I don't really care how many space-time dimension this god operates in. If he already knows what is going to happen he has a twisted sense of humour not only to not prevent evil, but also to put people in hell if they don't do as he pleases.

Oh, and how can you claim knowledge of all these times and dimensions your god operates in? Did he tell you?

 

[Narz]

No. Basically what I am saying, is that to grasp this concept, you need to think outside your timeline. This can be done, as mathematicians and physicists have demonstrated through string theory. However, we cannot act outside our timeline. God can.

God still intervenes in our timeline, however, even today. He heals the sick. He changes people's hearts. He rescues people from certain death. None of this is pre-determined. God not only can be in 2 places at the same time, He can be in 2 times at the same place!

Ok, taking what you say at face value I have a question... Why doesn't God heal everyone's wounds? What makes some people special enough to have their wounds healed while other writhe in agony and die by the millions?

 

[ironduck]

Talk about twisting logic! I have stated my case that God did not introduce evil, but He created the one who did. Why are you upset with God, instead of Satan? Why not blame Satan for "making people suffer under it"? Why not call Satan the sadist? Why do you hate God?

I have not seen this god you speak of, so I have no idea whether it exists. Therefore I have no emotion whatsoever directed at said god. I do, however, think that you are twisting logic when you say that this god created the entity that created evil, knowing full well that it would do so - and then at the SAME time saying that this god did not create evil through doing so.

It's basically the same thing as creating a killer robot that will go out and slaughter people and then claiming that you didn't do anything evil by creating this machine and setting it free. Yes, yes, you say that the satan has free will, but the god knew in advance what the satan would do. If my robot had free will, but I knew that it would go out and murder left and right I wouldn't have set it free - that would have been a terrible thing to do.

Oh, and I don't hate this satan you talk about either for the same reason I don't hate the god you speak of. Actually, I don't hate anyone. It's much too destructive.

 

[Quasar1011]

Then couldn't he do this to everybody?

Has God saved your life? Changed you heart? Heal you if your sick? If so this might be the answer to the common cold!

No, He couldn't do this to everybody, because everybody doesn't believe in Him, nor follow/obey Him. And before you say "then He's not all-Powerful", remember that God wants people to follow Him and obey Him. God wants to fellowship with us. He loves us as a Father. If you want His life-changing benefits, you need to come and fellowship with Him yourself. God does not bless disobedience.

Has God saved your life? Changed you heart? Heal you if your sick? If so this might be the answer to the common cold!

Yes to all three. I can tell you that once I had a high fever, and I prayed to the Lord Jesus, and the fever left me immediately! A lady in my church was recently diagnosed with a tumor on her liver. It caused her to lose a lot of weight. The women of the church prayed over her; she went back to the doctor for a biopsr, and the doctor could find no trace of the tumor! Then there's my girlfriend, who would tell you that she'd be dead today from alcohol poisoning, if God didn't come and change her heart and save her life!

But, we digress from the topic...

 

[Quasar1011]

Actually, I don't hate anyone. It's much too destructive.

I am glad to hear that.

Let me ask you something though. Since you believe in neither God nor Satan, and since you do seem to believe that evil exists, what do you think is the origin of evil?

 

[Taliesin]

God not only can be in 2 places at the same time, He can be in 2 times at the same place!

So can I. Hey, look, I just did it! I did it again! Hahahaha!

 

[Narz]

...remember that God wants people to follow Him and obey Him... If you want His life-changing benefits, you need to come and fellowship with Him yourself. God does not bless disobedience.

So basically it's like this - if you obey and worship me you get special privlages and I bend the laws of reality a bit and if you don't (even if you're an otherwise good person) I'm going to torture you for eternity?

Sounds like a nice fellow.

 

[ironduck]

I am glad to hear that.

Let me ask you something though. Since you believe in neither God nor Satan, and since you do seem to believe that evil exists, what do you think is the origin of evil?

I don't know whether an abstract concept of evil exist. But what humans (and other conscious creatures I assume) do to others to create suffering is generally known as evil. It's a way of describing a conscious will to cause harm to others.

I think the more interesting question would be how conscience comes to be.

 

[ironduck]

Quasar, you didn't respond to this yet btw (it's on page 4, I can't double quote inside, but it was a response to a quote by you)

I don't understand what this means. To prove to mankind that the devil is NOT the source of all sin, Jesus is going to rule the earth for 1000 years? So while Jesus rules the earth some of us screw-ups are gonna sin, thus proving to mankind that we are, well, screw-ups?

Why does he need to prove that?

And also, how is Jesus going to rule the earth while allowing people to sin? I mean, is he going to be, like, a politician, or what? Is he going to run for president? What if loses the election? If a term is four years it might be hard to win 250 terms in a row, especially if he allows us screw-ups to, screw-up (in other words, vote for Nader instead).

 

[vbraun]

No, He couldn't do this to everybody

Sorry, Everybody that believes in him?