Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Those are good ideas. I like them. Looks like the Medieval Era is filling in nicely!
Why is this ModMod Not in C2C Already?
- Thread starter Hydromancerx
- Start date
Those are good ideas. I like them. Looks like the Medieval Era is filling in nicely!
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I think you mean Y11. Rudder is at Y13.
Also for Warrants and Decrees, what techs will require this tech? Political Philosophy or Jurisprudence maybe?
Oh and some nice ideas for new techs and tech icons here ...
http://www.salemwiki.info/index.php/Skills
Note this game is set in Colonial New England. So it is more Renaissance based techs.
This game has ones too ...
http://ringofbrodgar.com/wiki/Skills
Even Yeomany, but their icon looks weird.
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I meant y19. Sorry.
Tournaments and Ren Lifestyle.
Compacts and constitutions has a good one for Warrants and Decrees. The only problem is that our tech buttons are generally taken from either pictures or very clear oil syle art... these really deviate from that style with an almost cartoonish approach. They look good but maybe not harmonious with C2C's existing buttons.
I also noticed there is already a Guardposts or Guard tower or something like that in the game around this era. It's a powerful building for espionage. I think it should get converted to an upgrade of Town Watch. If it loses some of its Espionage in the process, I'd like to make the dungeons more generically useful (it's great ONLY if you are being attacked - would be good to add some more motivation to build it) for espionage as well. Then the following buildings could be made for the torture stuff:
Torture Chamber
Prereq of the Dungeon building and the Torture Tech
+20% Espionage
-10 Crime
-1 Happy
+10 Disease
-1 Health
The Rack
Prereq of the Torture Chamber and the Torture Tech
+5 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-5 Crime
Finger Screws
Prereq of the Torture Chamber and the Torture Tech
+5 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-5 Crime
Judas Cradle
Prereq of the Torture Chamber and the Torture Tech
+5 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-5 Crime
Iron Chair
Prereq of the Torture Chamber and the Torture Tech
+5 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-5 Crime
Intestinal Rats
Prereq of the Torture Chamber and the Torture Tech and Pests (Rats)
+5 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-5 Crime
Torture Hand Tools
Prereq of the Torture Chamber and the Torture Tech
+5 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-5 Crime
Iron Maiden
Prereq of the Torture Chamber and the Torture Tech
+5 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-5 Crime
I also found an interesting reference to a much earlier torture device used by Greeks and Romans that could be placed at Dualism perhaps.
Brazen Bull
Main article: Brazen bull
A brazen bull as depicted by Hans Burgkmair the Elder.
Origins
The Brazen Bull was invented in Ancient Greece, by Perillos of Athens. Perillos proposed his idea of a more painful means of execution to Phalaris, the tyrant of Akraga. Phalaris liked the idea of the Brazen Bull, and so it was made. Once finished, Phalaris ordered it to be tested on Perillos himself. Perillos was removed from the Bull before he died, but was later killed by Phalaris when he threw Perillos off a hill.[citation needed] The Greek had specially engineered tubes to make the screams of the victims sound like the noise of a bull.
Appearance
The Bull was made wholly of brass, and was hollow with a door in the side.
Use
When a victim was placed inside the brazen bull, she or he was slowly burned to death. The device gradually became more sophisticated, until the Greeks invented a complex system of tubes in order to make the victim's screams sound more like an infuriated bull, and also made it so the smoke from it rose in clouds of incense.This torture is similar to being boiled alive.
Even though this torture was not used during the Middle Ages as it was used earlier by the Greek and Romans, a simple form of boiling was still used in Central Europe, without the use of the bull.
Prereq of Dualism, Code of Laws, Brass Working, Brass Wares
+3 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-5 Crime
It occurs to me that this is kinda a hijacking of the original intent of the thread, which has really become: Additional ages and fleshing out the tech tree.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Nice! I already got icon buttons for a Hanging Cage and an Iron Maiden. Help with art sources is apprecated.
Oh also for the Brazen Bull too.
Still have to make it into a button/icon.
Oh also for the Brazen Bull too.
Still have to make it into a button/icon.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I would help more there but I'm looking into bugfixes at the moment. Trust me... I'd rather be working on collecting some art! The Bull... badass man!
Statwise:
The Hanging Cage
Prereq of the Torture Tech and Executions (a combo)
+5 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-10 Crime
+5 Disease (the difference between this and a standard Torture mechanism is that it's also a method of public execution that happens to help to inadvertently spread disease as well.)
Statwise:
The Hanging Cage
Prereq of the Torture Tech and Executions (a combo)
+5 Espionage
-1 Gold
-1 Happy
-1 Health
-10 Crime
+5 Disease (the difference between this and a standard Torture mechanism is that it's also a method of public execution that happens to help to inadvertently spread disease as well.)
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
Just to have so many torture buildings filling my buildlist would be a reason to never ever build the torture camber at all. Please don't overextend this; we don't need 20 buildings with the exact same effects and prereqs there.
Torture / the Dungeon might be very useful with captives or captured spies as well.
Torture / the Dungeon might be very useful with captives or captured spies as well.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@TB
Been looking through the tech icons and I plan to fix some old ones up. I also found you a good Yeomany one.
Been looking through the tech icons and I plan to fix some old ones up. I also found you a good Yeomany one.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@TB
Perhaps the Brazen Bull should be a wonder.
Perhaps the Brazen Bull should be a wonder.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Ok i did most of this stuff and put it on the SVN.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
The idea is: how much do you want to invest into this stuff? The city can only handle so much of this kind of penalty but that sure is a lot of espionage and crime control. It also would take a lot of build time to get them all. How much is enough?
I love it!@TB
Been looking through the tech icons and I plan to fix some old ones up. I also found you a good Yeomanry one.
Yeomanry should probably also have a new civic for it. Not sure what the details should be but it was as much a social situation as anything.
Maybe stability bonuses, but the negative happiness comes from those who are emotionally connected to the tortured... the severity of those feelings are the type that make one refuse to go along with society for a while.Weren't some forms of torture really popular with spectators?
Perhaps some of these buildings should giveinstead.
That sounds like a great idea!
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
One little nitpick, Imho, Yeomanry should come after Feudalism (in column x45) and have Feudalism as a Prereq.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I agree. Yeomanry grew out of the Feudal system.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I will probably have to move to the right the whole bottom row then. I will have to check if doing this will mess up anything else.
EDIT: Ok added the changes to the SVN.
EDIT: Ok added the changes to the SVN.
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Why? There is a spot in x45 at 15.
I happen to have a game going that is right now at all these changes.
EDIT: See screen shot.
EDIT2: See Hydro Edit above.
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Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I updated the SVN with proper changes.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Just saw that. Thanks
Or perhaps it should be education-related. Some people never think it's going to be their problem one day.
pepper2000
King
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 899
Interesting discussion. I think of "Happiness", in the Civ context, as referring to the compliance of citizens. They are happy if they work and don't cause problems. It has nothing to do with their subjective well-being which, as it is, is of no concern for me as the megalomaniacal ruler. Things like drugs, amusement parks, and cell phones make citizens happy not because they improve the public's subjective well-being, but because it keeps them from causing problems.
According to Yuval Harari, modern nations has adopted things like pensions and health benefits, not for the benefit of the citizens, but because a healthy and financially secure population is needed to have a strong military and strong economy. If and when we reach the point where human labor is superfluous in the economy, this creates a situation where much of the population is useless and there will be no appetite to provide the unemployable masses with public support, because doing so does not help the military or the economy.
I would want torture buildings to have some negative effects because I find it morally repugnant, and while there are negative effects for the people and negative effects from the perspective of abstractions such as human rights, what are the negative effects from the standpoint of the ruler?
Eventually, one reaches Humanism, Liberalism, and other techs in the tree that would cause the population to develop a concept of human rights and turn torture buildings into a liability.
According to Yuval Harari, modern nations has adopted things like pensions and health benefits, not for the benefit of the citizens, but because a healthy and financially secure population is needed to have a strong military and strong economy. If and when we reach the point where human labor is superfluous in the economy, this creates a situation where much of the population is useless and there will be no appetite to provide the unemployable masses with public support, because doing so does not help the military or the economy.
I would want torture buildings to have some negative effects because I find it morally repugnant, and while there are negative effects for the people and negative effects from the perspective of abstractions such as human rights, what are the negative effects from the standpoint of the ruler?
Eventually, one reaches Humanism, Liberalism, and other techs in the tree that would cause the population to develop a concept of human rights and turn torture buildings into a liability.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Same sentiment here as well and is why I Never use Slavery in any of my games. Don't care if it's the Best thing for Production in the game, it crosses The line that I won't. Same for the World View stuff about Cannibalism. Crosses The Line.
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