Why Islam Can't Reform

[Manfred Belheim]

Most people should not have to many problem with the 10 commandments as a moral code, the rest of the bible is mostly a selection of guidelines, parables, history and morality.

Err... aren't half of them basically about exactly how you should venerate God? And the other half are so obvious that they don't really need stating (don't kill people, steal things, etc). I think the seven deadly sins are probably a better guide.

 

[REDY]

I think that religion cannot reform without new prophet.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I agree that "can't reform" is an exaggeration. I was not saying I agree entirely (or at all) with the OP, I was saying that much before making a case that Islam can't (or probably won't) reform, it is unfortunately necessary to make the entirely obvious case that it is possible that Islam is harder to reform than Christianity was.

It's not what I read in your initial post, but if that's what you meant ...

Because you draw the equivalency between Christianity and Islam that simply does no exist. They are different religions, founded in very different contexts by radically different men. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that both are just as easy to reform or just as compatible with modern societies.

I feel silly for asking this, but in what you posted as an example, what point am I making?

 

[luiz]

It's not what I read in your initial post, but if that's what you meant ...

Yep, that's what I meant.

I feel silly for asking this, but in what you posted as an example, what point am I making?

The real point you're making is that Christianity = Islam. Both can be interpreted in a multitude of ways, and people will choose whatever they like, from fairly liberal interpretations to ultra reactionary ones.

 

[aelf]

Can we talk about the possibility that, in theory, some races are just worse than others?

 

[Lexicus]

It's pretty funny how OP agrees with ISIS about Islam

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The real point you're making is that Christianity = Islam.

No, I'm really not making that point.

I'd appreciate it if you let me make my own points. You can find out what they are by reading them.

Both can be interpreted in a multitude of ways, and people will choose whatever they like, from fairly liberal interpretations to ultra reactionary ones.

That is an aspect of both religions that are similar. If you disagree, make an argument against that specific argument. Don't talk bollox about 'real' points.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I give up. What 'Ask A Muslim thread?' I don't see any. All I see is the Islamophobic thread based upon a false stereotype.

It's actually called "Ask a Muslim Youth." The OP is no longer posting, but several others have stepped up to answer questions. Jackelgull recently bumped it.

 

[Lexicus]

Wouldn't it be great if the crazy takfiri reactionaries and the crazy Islamophobic reactionaries could just kill each other and leave the rest of us out of it?

Moderator Action: Posts encouraging violence are not welcome here. FP

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

It seems silly to isolate Islam when American lead wars and sanctions (with European contributions) have killed 16-20 million since the end of World War II. Especially when hundreds and thousands of American politicians over the decades have made a point to emphasize how vital a role Christianity plays in their lives.

 

[BvBPL]

And here I thought it was because they hadn't finished the piety social policy tree.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Circumstance of majority population.

Religions are consistently irrational and there are few if any people who follow all of any religion's teachings with consistency (religions themselves are not exactly self-consistent). Islam isn't even close to alone in bloody history. Given that one would expect the problem to be elsewhere. It looks pretty different in practice in Indonesia than it does in the Middle East or Africa, which is a clue.

It has some similarity to the Catholic church suppression/influence of state governance centuries ago. In the regions where its at its worst (Middle East and some regions of Africa), people are wielding it like a tool in a power vacuum. You can substitute other beliefs without evidence there and it wouldn't change the situation very much I'd expect.

I'm not very interested in discussing the particular merits of one set of beliefs without evidence over another or which is more/less violent. There's too much hindsight bias and too many unknowns. It would be better to fix the systemic issues that allow for massed violence, once we know the best way to go about that and wind up with something sustainable.

 

[luiz]

Can we talk about the possibility that, in theory, some races are just worse than others?

Thanks for proving my point.

As he demonstrates, for SJWs Islam is a "race". Criticism of Islam, or saying that it is more problematic than other major religions, is like blankly stating that a "race" is more problematic than other ones.

Of course, non-idiots know that Islam has nothing to do with a race; it's as multinational and multiracial religion just like Christianity (oddly enough SJWs never treat Christianity as a race). It's not at all an ethno-religious sect, but a huge faith counting millions of white Europeans, black Africans, Indians, Southeast Asians, and etc etc as its adherents. Islam is a doctrine (or several competing doctrines), and thus much closer to an ideology than a "race" (it has nothing to do with a race). So we can perfectly state that it can potentially be more problematic than other religions, and only an illiterate imbecile would link that to racism. Unfortunately, SJWs are neither particularly literate nor particularly bright...

 

[Lexicus]

As he demonstrates, for SJWs Islam is a "race". Criticism of Islam, or saying that it is more problematic than other major religions, is like blankly stating that a "race" is more problematic than other ones.

You managed to miss the point so magnificently

 

[KmDubya]

Why should Islam reform?

It'd be much better for everyone else in the world if Islam was reformed into something with a modicum of tolerance, but what's in it for Islam? As it currently stands it is a vibrant religion that is on the march and expanding. With 'hate speech' laws, political correctness and a strong lobby it is getting to where any criticism or discussion can be squashed. The way it has convinced the progressive left to support its spread is truly impressive given that once fully in control they will likely eradicate the deviants who helped them achieve power. Try holding a gay pride or women's rights parade in Riyadh and let me know how that turns out

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Look pa! Windmills!

 

[Old Hippy]

's

Thanks for proving my point.

As he demonstrates, for SJW Islam is a "race". Criticism of Islam, or saying that it is more problematic than other major religions, is like blankly stating that a "race" is more problematic than other ones.

Of course, non-idiots know that Islam has nothing to do with a race; it's as multinational and multiracial religion just like Christianity (oddly enough SJWs never treat Christianity as a race). It's not at all an ethno-religious sect, but a huge faith counting millions of white Europeans, black Africans, Indians, Southeast Asians, and etc etc as its adherents. Islam is a doctrine (or several competing doctrines), and thus much closer to an ideology than a "race" (it has nothing to do with a race). So we can perfectly state that it can potentially be more problematic than other religions, and only an illiterate imbecile would link that to racism. Unfortunately, SJWs are neither particularly literate nor particularly bright...

if we take your two (bolded) statements it would seem that there is no reason that we could conclude that there is a reason that they are potentially more problematic as you have shown that both are multinational and multiracial and I would add 'multicultural' too the list
by having ago at SJWs you actually destroy your argument that they are different in any way at all because Christianity is a very good example of competing doctrines and dogmas

 

[Lexicus]

The problem is that generally people who blame Islam for social problems are misdiagnosing the real causes of those problems.
The idea that there is some problematic essential nature of Islam is as absurd as saying there is some essential problematic nature of Christianity or Judaism or any other religion really.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The problem is that generally people who blame Islam for social problems are misdiagnosing the real causes of those problems.
The idea that there is some problematic essential nature of Islam is as absurd as saying there is some essential problematic nature of Christianity or Judaism or any other religion really.

Did you know, if ISIS or the majority of the Middle-East would have been Christian, there wouldn't have been a problem at all? They'd all be turning the other cheek.

True story.

 

[Lexicus]

Did you know, if ISIS or the majority of the Middle-East would have been Christian, there wouldn't have been a problem at all? They'd all be turning the other cheek.

True story.

It would be a happy land, full of chocolate and rainbows and bunnies