why NATO should leave the Turks out
- Thread starter r16
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amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Rather than a Western expulsion, for which there is no formal mechanism, could you explain why you think it would be in your strategic interest to leave NATO voluntarily?
As a defensive military alliance, I suppose that Turkey is somewhat in the same position as Germany: once a cold war frontier state, now buffered by non-communist and non-hostile states, so the necessity of preserving it purely on that front has since gone by the wayside.
As a defensive military alliance, I suppose that Turkey is somewhat in the same position as Germany: once a cold war frontier state, now buffered by non-communist and non-hostile states, so the necessity of preserving it purely on that front has since gone by the wayside.
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what have they done to NATO to warrant being kicked out?
I can't say I follow all news
I can't say I follow all news
Remorseless1
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It's the Turkish straits between the Aegean and Black seas. A critical waterway for thousands of years. The Turkish government's move away from the secular society proposed by Ataturk a century ago is not compatible with the secular liberal democracies that make up NATO and the EU.
Undoubtedly, Turkey was probably uncomfortable with Greece's membership in NATO, given historical animus between the two countries. They seem to be more comfortable with its other traditional enemy, Russia.
Personally, I'd rather keep Turkey as an ally, but the relationship is not an easy one.
Undoubtedly, Turkey was probably uncomfortable with Greece's membership in NATO, given historical animus between the two countries. They seem to be more comfortable with its other traditional enemy, Russia.
Personally, I'd rather keep Turkey as an ally, but the relationship is not an easy one.
Plains-Cow
Best Resource; Always Wins
Turkish delight is delicious.
r16
not deity
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ı hate the autocorrect or whatever . Pretty sure ı wrote "will never" or "will not ever" or whatever . Good thing the global audience witnesses that the CFC is not like that much of wind up toys . But the argument should be like involving the terrorist state stuff like in place . Let me wait a bit more ...
greeks will no doubt prove it was Greek Delight before it was stolen by horsebandits .
greeks will no doubt prove it was Greek Delight before it was stolen by horsebandits .
Zardnaar
Deity
Up to the Turks if they want to leave they can.
If they stay and enjoy playing fun and games there's other things that can be done.
If they stay and enjoy playing fun and games there's other things that can be done.
r16
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you personally are championing Ukranians everyday . They will gladly do your bidding in destruction of this country , so there is no point in talking about collaboration . To our deaths , remember ?
while at it , the non-secularization of this country is not a problem for the West , it is actually an essential part of the scheme . Always to remember that the PM defined Democracy as a [bus] to get off after arriving at the destination , while he was still the mayor of Istanbul in mid 1990s .
while at it , the non-secularization of this country is not a problem for the West , it is actually an essential part of the scheme . Always to remember that the PM defined Democracy as a [bus] to get off after arriving at the destination , while he was still the mayor of Istanbul in mid 1990s .
Ajidica
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Yes, NATO was famous for only allowing in secular liberal democracies, like *checks notes* Estado Novo Portugal.
One thing you should realize about westerners, @r16 , is that they will keep seeing everything as memes, until there is full out war. Then you will be turned to a demon in the blink of an eye 
But before that, most won't even have a reason to research when who joined nato, nor if it was concurrent - let alone why. Then, maybe everyone will be an expert on bus sayings or the often alluded to kampf.
But before that, most won't even have a reason to research when who joined nato, nor if it was concurrent - let alone why. Then, maybe everyone will be an expert on bus sayings or the often alluded to kampf.
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r16
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am demonseed , in days am not an horsebandit in months am not an useful idiot to bring hell on enemies of the West .
ridiculous statement elsewhere . Faster than people might think , there will be even less control in weapons stuff . But that's to prove the PM is useful to the West , like buying weapons and whatnot . To take eyes away from Democratic stuff , a weapon only the Westerners are allowed to use . Let me remind , it's the PM's personal ambitions that paints New Turkey in to a corner that forces the West to bail it against the Turks .
ridiculous statement elsewhere . Faster than people might think , there will be even less control in weapons stuff . But that's to prove the PM is useful to the West , like buying weapons and whatnot . To take eyes away from Democratic stuff , a weapon only the Westerners are allowed to use . Let me remind , it's the PM's personal ambitions that paints New Turkey in to a corner that forces the West to bail it against the Turks .
I think the main problem (apart from the historical ones) is that Erdogan seems to honestly think he would be allowed to make Turkey actually immune to hits by superpowers. Even if that was possible (highly debatable), he wouldn't.
Of course this has nothing to do with how there really is no difference between the current islamo-kemalism, and the previous kemalo-islamism. But, as noted, westerners have no reason to go beyond memes, so "Turkey stopped being democratic" suffices, even if it's like saying a 300 year old person is old, but not a 200 year old one.
Of course this has nothing to do with how there really is no difference between the current islamo-kemalism, and the previous kemalo-islamism. But, as noted, westerners have no reason to go beyond memes, so "Turkey stopped being democratic" suffices, even if it's like saying a 300 year old person is old, but not a 200 year old one.
Zardnaar
Deity
Well if Turkey left NATO I'm sure Greece and Turkey will have one of those little incidents they keep having and conceivably NATO flattens Turkey right?
If Turkey left nato, Greece wouldn't be needed to do anything, because US would carve the part of Turkey it needs and let the rest go.
And create Kurdistan too: more allies for team US.
Zardnaar
Deity
Even I'm not that cynical. Americans marine Corp at Gallipoli let's go!!!
Bosporus isn't as key as it once was. Russia isn't the USSR.
At this rate to become a millionaire just move to Turkey with $10 in your pocket.
You could write a book with r16. The Greco-Turk Book of Economic Theory!!!
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Was the Salazar government officially a Catholic state, though? I mean he was very much pro-Catholic and pro-church, but I don’t recall him integrating it with the Estado Novo.
r16
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actually something perfectly in tune with the realities . Let's ignore the Western ignorance for a while . Lord Vader or one of the oldies wrote a piece back in late 60s before , about , after the time he was first deployed on Cyprus , stating a war with the Greeks was the only one that could conceivably happen . Which somehow has become a thing for America to believe it wouldn't be erased from the face of the world . After 1974 Athens has lost the taste for that . Accordingly , contrary to his statements , the Greek guy here actually loves New Turkey . You know , limited number of sentences so that people will not have trouble reading ...
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