Why no dip of the flag ?
- Thread starter otago
- Start date
CocoIsKing28
Slightly less stupid
We don't dip our flag at the Olympics either, right? What jerks we are. No wonder the world hates us.
TomYo689
Emperor
I don't even know what this means
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Why would we possibly show the same sign of respect that most any other country does except India, the Philippines, and South Africa?
Again, we are known by the company we keep.
Again, we are known by the company we keep.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Yeah, I've done some reading about this before, and America has some pretty unique (and I would say weird, but that's only because I'm not American and am not used to this) veneration of the flag and other state symbols.
I'm not sure why, but I think at least in Europe, the view tends to be "it's just a symbol, our country is represented by the people, this is just a placeholder, nothing to get your panties in a bunch about". I think that view was shaped by all the bloody wars fought under the banners of lords and nations.
Meanwhile America's saint-like veneration and respect for the flag was shaped by.. I'm not sure what? But I don't know my American history very well.
Core Imposter
Felon
- Joined
- May 13, 2011
- Messages
- 5,412
Don't worry guys. Every aspect of America is being dragged through the streets. You'll get to see the flag dragged through the dunghill soon enough.
Core Imposter
Felon
- Joined
- May 13, 2011
- Messages
- 5,412
What do you get out of taking shots at me?
Phrossack
Armored Fish and Armored Men
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2008
- Messages
- 6,045
What do you get out of preaching to deaf ears? I saw a logical inconsistency in your beliefs and questioned it.
No idea about flag dipping. It certainly seems like it goes to half staff more often than it used too.
A lot of what the flag is about is respect. Keeping it high. Clean.
There's actually a picture that makes some Americans more unhappy than simply burning our flag (would it hurt flag makers to make them flame resistant?).
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2001/No-Regrets/
If you read that flag code, guess who can modify the flag rules and traditions at any time as needed?
Section10: President Obama
ParkCungHee
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2006
- Messages
- 12,921
The refusal to dip the flag started with European immigrants who refused to offer a sign of respect to monarchs who drove them from their homes.
So if you want to blame anyway, you got to blame the Europeans on both accounts.
So if you want to blame anyway, you got to blame the Europeans on both accounts.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
I think we should start enforcing it with stiff prison sentences. It's time to get these people off the streets:
If you read that flag code, guess who can modify the flag rules and traditions at any time as needed?
Section10: President Obama
Spoiler :
At least the ones who are still alive...
Spoiler :
Patroklos
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 12,721
Dipping your ensign is not a way to render honors for underway vessels. It is done with whistles. Civilian ships don't render honors, I have not encountered it in 12 years plying the worlds waterways. The junior ship initiates honors regardless of the nation it is from. Obviously with non-NATO or otherwise allied ships that is many times unknown so you just play it by ear.
I participated in OP Sail and NYC fleet week this past summer and every US ship exchanged honors with every foreign ship and they all used the same whistle signals. Two short for attention to port (or one for starboard depending on which side you are passing on), one for hand salute, two for ready-two (drop salute), three For carry on. The senior ship will return the same signals one signal behind.
The US does return honors unless it endangers the ship (ie we are busy navigating or the sound signals might be confused for navigation signal) or there is some diplomatic reason not to in which case we will be directed not to from the top. You wouldn't to so for a NK vessel because you never know how they will use such things for their own purposes.
In other words your OP makes no sense. Just because our way of rendering honors is done differently than other countries (i am taking your word for it because within maritime norms it is not) does not mean our was is any less respectful.
I think we should start enforcing it with stiff prison sentences. It's time to get these people off the streets:
Spoiler :
At least the ones who are still alive...
Spoiler :
Hehe, tempting, but screwing with the flag is protected by 1st Amendment still I think.
The cops should definitely continue focusing on putting large ammo clip owners in jail who aren't named David Gregory.
Nathan Haddad is still looking at 35 years for those five 30-round ammo clips (empty) he had. (Next hearing is Feb 20)
He needs $100,000 for his legal defense, or his life might be over. He doesn't have many possessions to sell. Unlike David Gregory, he isn't famous. Or rich or powerful. Feel free to donate some money here at this site set up by his brother if you wish.
http://www.gofundme.com/1tkukc
It sure would have been nice for David Gregory to have been sitting in jail looking at 5 years and a felony record like the rest of the little people. More of that famous prosecutorial discretion I keep hearing about. To be fair, that was in D.C. where it is considered a misdemeanor.
So protocol got skipped on the 4th? I wonder why...
For the rest: read Pat's post. It seems to explain all the confusion.
Perfection
The Great Head.
dips are for dips
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
I had to wiki dipping the flag.
To dip a flag that is being carried means to lower it by turning it forward from an upright position to 45° or horizontal. This is done as a sign of respect or deference. It is done by lowering to half-mast and returning to full mast position.
And I spotted the problem.
To dip a flag that is being carried means to lower it by turning it forward from an upright position to 45° or horizontal. This is done as a sign of respect or deference. It is done by lowering to half-mast and returning to full mast position.
And I spotted the problem.
