Why the West will always win

[Alpine Trooper]

Western Civilization is Superior to all other Civilizations militarily. The West will always win. The West has always won.

Carnage and Culture by Victor Davis Hanson.

I am not interested here in whether European military culture is morally superior to, or far more wretched then, that of the non-West. The Conquistadors, who put an end to human sacrifice and torture on the Great Pyramid of Mexico City, sailed from a society reeling from the Grand Inquisition and the ferocious Reconquista, and left a disease and nearly ruined New World in their wake.

I am also less concerned in ascertaining the righteousness of particular wars-whether a murderous Pizarro in Peru (who calmly announced, "The time of the Inca is over") was better or worse than his murdering Inca enemies, whether India suffered enormously or benefitied modestly from English colonization, or whether the Japanese had good cause to bomb Pearl Harbour or the Americans to incinerate Tokyo.

My curiosity is not with Western man's heart of darkness, but with his ability to fight-specifically how his military prowess reflects larger social, economic, political, and cultural practices that themselves seemingly have little to do with war.

If you disagree with myself and Mr. Hanson, please provide your reasoning. Don't provide me with small battles where Western armies may have lost a couple hundred men somewhere during some date in time. I want big picture proof that the West has lost.

Please spare me your Iraq comments. Also,

You will find that in certain places such as Vietnam, there was never a total loss on the Wests part. And the Vietcong wouldn't have gotten where they did without Western arms.

So, has the west not always been militarily superior?

 

[LordRahl]

Although I agree about West's superiority so far in history - what happens when China finally catches up with technology?

 

[Alpine Trooper]

Although I agree about West's superiority so far in history - what happens when China finally catches up with technology?

History dictates that it will not. We seem to place an over-emphasis on China I believe. It's a lot less powerful and a lot less scary than it may seem.

 

[Irish Caesar]

What is considered the beginning of the West? Alexander's Macedonia?

 

[Alpine Trooper]

Yeah, we'll say Greece.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Well, the military superiority of the West is fairly recent. During the Middle Ages, the West was backward militarily speaking compared with Asia (and in other fields too by the way). We can consider the West being superior only since the Renaissance, when we discovered other knowledges and took the best of them.

The main difference between Europe and other large historically inhabitated regions is that Europe has never achieved unity (outside during Roman times but as there has been a Middle Age in Europe that's rather irrelevant). As much in the Arab world than in India, China or the Americas, main civilizations constitute themselves into large unquestionnable empires. This is not the case in Europe where competition between neighbours has never lead to a situation where the power was undisputed. This could only accelerate the pace of technological improvements.

However, those times are gone, and this since the 20th century which has lead to a globalization of competition. Clearly today, Europe and North America aren't technologically advanced compared with the Asia Pacific region. It's not the case in the military field yet, but that's mainly because the West takes advantage of the influence it has spread all over the world in the past (mainly through colonization). But clearly, as other competitive centers of powers are emerging, there's absolutely no reason this would last any longer.

 

[Babbler]

Western Civilization is Superior to all other Civilizations militarily. The West will always win. The West has always won.

So, has the west not always been militarily superior?

The Muslims, in the early years, threaten the existence of Christendom several time, being stopped only by the Byzantines and the Austrians. Also, if they had the chance, the Mongols could have conquered Europe.

Militarily technology, as with all technology and unlike ideas or values, are easy to transmit and integrate into other cultural contexts.

 

[Irish Caesar]

I think because the West has been constantly and consistently fighting, it's good at it. How many Western countries have gone for extended periods of time without fighting a war? Not many, and not for long.

Practice makes perfect.

 

[Alpine Trooper]

The Mongols couldn't conquer Europe because their culture was inferior to that of the west. Of course at this time, military and culture are one in the same.

The Muslims failed at taking Europe and paid DEARLY numerous times after for this attempt.

Marla, the west has many times over kicked Asia's ass prior to the Renaissance. Invasion of Persia?

 

[Marla_Singer]

The Muslims, in the early years, threaten the existence of Christendom several time, being stopped only by the Byzantines and the Austrians. Also, if they had the chance, the Mongols could have conquered Europe.

Well, I know this isn't tought in North America, but the French also stopped the Arabs in Poitiers, stopping a spreading of islam accross Europe which was coming from Spain.

As this happened way earlier, this is in my opinion more noticeable than the Ottomans being stopped at Vienna.

 

[blackheart]

No, it has not ALWAYS been militarily superior. I point you in the general direction of Huns, who destroyed much of Western Rome, only to be stopped by the death of their leader.

Next up, the Mongols. The biggest reason they didn't conquer Europe was again that their leader, Ogedei Khan died before the Mongolian expedition that defeated the Teutonic knights could move further into Europe.

Who's been fighting in an on-and-off phase in the last century? Certainly not the West.

 

[Alpine Trooper]

And like I have said. Our military superiority is a result of our superior culture. Asia will never catch up because it is culturally inferior.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. Watch it. - KD
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[blackheart]

The Mongols couldn't conquer Europe because their culture was inferior to that of the west. Of course at this time, military and culture are one in the same.

That makes no sense. Culture doesn't have anything to do with the tips of spears.

Marla, the west has many times over kicked Asia's ass prior to the Renaissance. Invasion of Persia?

How about the Ottoman invasion of Hungary and Austria?

 

[Marla_Singer]

Marla, the west has many times over kicked Asia's ass prior to the Renaissance. Invasion of Persia?

There's no "West" prior to the Middle Age. During the Ancient times, it's more accurate to talk about Mediterranean civilizations than about a Western or European civilization.

 

[blackheart]

And like I have said. Our military superiority is a result of our superior culture. Asia will never catch up because it is culturally inferior.

Are you blind to 5000 years of history? Sumeria, Babylon, Egypt, Ancient China, Ancient India, etc?

 

[Alpine Trooper]

No, it has not ALWAYS been militarily superior. I point you in the general direction of Huns, who destroyed much of Western Rome, only to be stopped by the death of their leader.

Next up, the Mongols. The biggest reason they didn't conquer Europe was again that their leader, Ogedei Khan died before the Mongolian expedition that defeated the Teutonic knights could move further into Europe.

Who's been fighting in an on-and-off phase in the last century? Certainly not the West.

Hannibals army was made up of primarily Westerners. Namely Spanish.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Who's been fighting in an on-and-off phase in the last century? Certainly not the West.

What do you mean by this one?

 

[Alpine Trooper]

Are you blind to 5000 years of history? Sumeria, Babylon, Egypt, Ancient China, Ancient India, etc?

Where are they now? All besides China have been taken by the West.

 

[Babbler]

And like I have said. Our military superiority is a result of our superior culture. Asia will never catch up because it is culturally inferior.

I don't think superior culture, thus, military superiority holds. The Germanic tribes were able to destroy the Roman Empire will a less advanced culture, and the Mongols conquered much of Eurasia as such.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

The Mongols couldn't conquer Europe because their culture was inferior to that of the west. Of course at this time, military and culture are one in the same.

The Muslims failed at taking Europe and paid DEARLY numerous times after for this attempt.

Marla, the west has many times over kicked Asia's ass prior to the Renaissance. Invasion of Persia?

The Mongol could have taken Europe. They just found better, far richer targets in the Middle-east, India and China.

I refer to this excellent article by Vrylakas.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=58648