Will Hitler be seen in a more positive way in the far future?

[christos200]

Just for the record, I do not admire Hitler (although I do admit to being a Genghis Khan fanboy) and this thread is almost four years old. So some of my views four years ago do not represent my views today but even then I never said that I admired Hitler. I just asked a reasonable question which led to an interesting, as you've said, discussion and that's the reason I am proud of this thread.

 

[Tahuti]

Give it just a hundred years and Hitler is going to be remembered as a brilliant politician who expanded the autobahn, saved Germany from the depression, stalled the USSR's expansion into Europe, exported universal healthcare, synchronised date and times and invented the Volkswagen.

Of course, the Holocaust can be excused away for Hitler as he was manipulated by a Palestinian.

Not that I genuinely relish this apparent development, as much as one will notice the irony of this.

 

[Agent327]

I don't think even neo-Nazis think like this. Althought it's close.

 

[tetley]

I absolutely think Hitler can (and probably will) be viewed more positively in the far future. First, simplest reason: because his approval rating can go nowhere but up.

I think time will shift his portrayal from Satan incarnate (as it is today) to "it's complicated.". And you know..."it's complicated" might even be more accurate.

 

[Kyriakos]

Give it just a hundred years and Hitler is going to be remembered as a brilliant politician who expanded the autobahn, saved Germany from the depression, stalled the USSR's expansion into Europe, exported universal healthcare, synchronised date and times and invented the Volkswagen.

Of course, the Holocaust can be excused away for Hitler as he was manipulated by a Palestinian.

Not that I genuinely relish this apparent development, as much as one will notice the irony of this.

Lol?

He would be seen positively by germans, i suppose, if he had stopped just after stealing a bit of Czechoslovakia. But the eternal german fear that Russia would just devour Germany, made him start a war Germany could never hope to win. They were pretty much against two vast continents.

That said, not sure when the atom bomb would be invented in that alt timeline. Maybe later than when Russia would have the sheer tank numbers to steal anything it wanted.

 

[Mouthwash]

I absolutely think Hitler can (and probably will) be viewed more positively in the far future. First, simplest reason: because his approval rating can go nowhere but up.

I think time will shift his portrayal from Satan incarnate (as it is today) to "it's complicated.". And you know..."it's complicated" might even be more accurate.

First actual Holocaust denial I've seen on CFC, what fun.

 

[Agent327]

I absolutely think Hitler can (and probably will) be viewed more positively in the far future. First, simplest reason: because his approval rating can go nowhere but up.

I think time will shift his portrayal from Satan incarnate (as it is today) to "it's complicated.". And you know..."it's complicated" might even be more accurate.

First Holocaust denial I've seen on CFC, what fun.

Both of these are just far too simplistic. No serious historian views Hitler as Satan incarnate (for one, because he simply was not; he was a quite common and generally unremarkable man), and 'it\s complicated', while being true, is also completely off the mark when discussing Hitler and his ideas. Hitler's 'ideas' were exceedingly uncomplicated and contain barely anything original. Complicated, original ideas rarely attain great political following.

 

[Traitorfish]

Give it just a hundred years and Hitler is going to be remembered as a brilliant politician who (...) stalled the USSR's expansion into Europe

I mean, the extent of Soviet influence in was noticeably further to the West in 1946 than 1932, and it's mostly his fault. I don't think this particular revision will prove to have a lot of legs.

 

[Mouthwash]

My first exposure to the Holocaust included the non-Jewish victims. I was straight up taught that eleven million people had been killed, six million of whom were Jews. By religious, Zionist, right-wing parents.

 

[Flying Pig]

Moderator Action: This thread is about Hitler. Discussion of the Holocaust is topical, but please start another thread if you want to discuss other genocides, ethnic cleansings and so on. If you do, please remember that comparing any of them with the Holocaust is an excellent way to turn the thread into a train-wreck.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Tahuti]

I mean, the extent of Soviet influence in was noticeably further to the West in 1946 than 1932, and it's mostly his fault. I don't think this particular revision will prove to have a lot of legs.

You are right about that, though the argument Neo-Hitlerites willl bring is that the USSR would have expanded to France if it weren't for Hitler, or something like that.

Let's face it, the horrific nightmares brought about the Nazi régime aren't as lively anymore. If Russian black metallers are able to exalt the virtues of the Aryan race and Hitler, Israelis can propose putting Palestinians in the ovens and Mobutu Sese Seko can emulate Josef Goebbels, anything is possible.

 

[Agent327]

Not been to Germany recently, I gather. I can recommend Er ist wieder da. Not because it's very accurate (which it isn't), but because of the topic.

 

[Tahuti]

Not been to Germany recently, I gather. I can recommend Er ist wieder da. Not because it's very accurate (which it isn't), but because of the topic.

My last trip to Germany was like two years ago, when I visited Cologne. Guess I have to pick up Er ist wieder da some time.

 

[Agent327]

Cool. By the way, Neonazis are, of course, terribly bad informed about Nazism and Hitler; it's kind of a premise to be one. I mentioned Germany, as even Neonazis in Germany aren't that dumb. (Well, unless they are from former East Germany, of course, where there was total silence on the subject of Hitler ever since 1945. Such an attitude will teach people absolutely nothing.) But my point was that Hitler and Nazism tend to be more popular outside of Germany than inside. Also, Hitlers pre-war popularity (both inside and outside) should not be underestimated. After all, these were days when 'order' was still something to be respected.

 

[christos200]

Isn't Hitler somewhat popular in Thailand? Although I believe it has more to do with lack of education about Hitler than real admiration of Nazism.

 

[Agent327]

I haven't the foggiest notion. I do recall that a little while back there was a bit of a ruckus about an Indian using Hitler by way of advertizement. I would think that this points rather to a near complete ignorance of than to an admiration for the man. (After all, the swastika is a Sanscrit symbol. The Indian in question possibly had no idea who the man in the picture was.)

 

[tetley]

First actual Holocaust denial I've seen on CFC, what fun.

First mention of Germany trying to launch a spaceship to Mars during WWII as well, or whatever other funny little shapes you want to make out of the ink blots in the Rorschach test.

Neo-nazism vs. the Nazi party is another example of the potential to migrate his memory to "it's complicated". Nazi is a political party--replete with all the politics that go with it. Neo-nazi is the skinheads, anti-black, and the like.

 

[Tahuti]

But my point was that Hitler and Nazism tend to be more popular outside of Germany than inside. Also, Hitlers pre-war popularity (both inside and outside) should not be underestimated. After all, these were days when 'order' was still something to be respected.

Well, Germany denazified largely due to outside pressures. There isn't going to be external aid in suppressing renazification if Hitler and Nazism are even getting a semblance of rehabilitation outside Germany.

As for Eastern Germany, they knew the political suppresion of the GDR. Without any knowledge of Nazism worked in practice, it becomes (too) easy to idealise Nazism.

 

[Agent327]

Well, Germany denazified largely due to outside pressures.

That's not entirely correct. The original denazification was entirely Allied-controlled. But once (Western) Germany gained independence, that no longer applies. The only thing stopping an ex-Nazi from being prosecuted today is that they are, or about to be, all dead. In addition, Germany has a 5 % vote limit on parties gaining access to the Bundestag. Furthermore, all Nazi paraphernalia are exclusively forbidden. Last but not least, there was the Wiedergutmachungs policy. All these things are connected with Germany trying to come to terms with the Nazi period and its consequences.

 

[Tahuti]

That's not entirely correct. The original denazification was entirely Allied-controlled. But once (Western) Germany gained independence, that no longer applies. The only thing stopping an ex-Nazi from being prosecuted today is that they are, or about to be, all dead. In addition, Germany has a 5 % vote limit on parties gaining access to the Bundestag. Furthermore, all Nazi paraphernalia are exclusively forbidden. Last but not least, there was the Wiedergutmachungs policy. All these things are connected with Germany trying to come to terms with the Nazi period and its consequences.

Makes sense; the Bundesverfassungsgeschutz is the legal successor of an organisation founded by the Allies to oversee the Denazification process. However, the Wiedergutmachungs policy was more of a foreign policy thaw to rehabilitate West- Germany on the international stage than an actual Denazification policy: Nazi or not, the FRG had a strong interest to be friendly to France and Israel, who were the main beneficienaries of the West-German Wiedergutmachungs policy. The banning of Nazi paraphernalia on the other hand is a cosmetic change to spice up Germany's non-nazi credentials abroad. The Bundesverfassungsgeschutz, the refederalization of Germany and the election thresholds are arguably the only Denazification policies of any substance.