Will their ever be a publicly atheist American President?

[MobBoss]

The idea of not voting for someone because they are atheist is pretty stupid.

That does very little to convince one otherwise.

I can understand not voting for someone because their religious policies do not appeal to you

So....is it stupid...or is it understandable?

but their personal views on religion should be very much besides the point.

Why?

If, for example, someone were running for office...and they were a practicing Scientologist and all that entailed, wouldnt their personal religious views say something about how they would view policy? And knowing that, why would you be silly not to consider it?

 

[El_Machinae]

First of all you have never had to explain anything in regards to the bible to me. So get over it. But, I agree it is great advice from Jesus. But its not all there is to it either. And like I said, I have seen you twist scripture to the point of absurdity before, so I really have no desire to debate this further with you.

Well, my position is that Jesus told people to follow the Golden Rule & love God, and that this was (in his mind) the whole of the Law. If your position is that you can find justifications for breaking the Golden Rule by your reading of the Bible, well, that can be your position.

 

[JollyRoger]

We should vote for the best person for the job.

 

[Earthling]

Naturally MobBoss goes with an example of a right-wing extremist, but again, anyone surprised by now?

 

[El_Machinae]

Naturally MobBoss goes with an example of a right-wing extremist, but again, anyone surprised by now?

I think it's more in the theme of this thread to say that he's giving his own perspective.
I mean, hey, I was objecting to the broad-brushing of atheists. It would be unfair to broad-brush the right-wing extremists in this same thread!

 

[Earthling]

I think it's more in the theme of this thread to say that he's giving his own perspective.

He fully agrees with Timothy McVeigh? I mean, I know the whole "anti-government" spiel but this seems like you're misrepresenting his opinions a bit too much.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think I misunderstood you.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Not much loving your enemies and praying for those who persecute you going on from some in this thread.

 

[MobBoss]

Well, my position is that Jesus told people to follow the Golden Rule & love God, and that this was (in his mind) the whole of the Law.

This is where we will disagree. I think it obvious from his other teachings that the Golden Rule wasnt all there was of the Law, but simply its over-riding purpose. That, if one loved God and loved others that the law itself would in turn be obeyed. 'Love in that context would mean more than just how we view the word 'love' because in loving God one would obey all his rules and commandments without question as an expression of that love.

If your position is that you can find justifications for breaking the Golden Rule by your reading of the Bible, well, that can be your position.

Thats not my position at all, except in the fact that no one is perfect, and ends up breaking the Golden Rule one way or another. Its an ideal that one endeavors to follow, and has to ask forgiveness for when one comes up short.

If your problem with me is because I am not a perfect Christian then what can I say? I'm not. No christian is. Low hanging fruit and all that...

 

[El_Machinae]

This is where we will disagree. I think it obvious from his other teachings that the Golden Rule wasnt all there was of the Law, but simply its over-riding purpose.

We disagree on something I didn't say? Huh?

That, if one loved God and loved others that the law itself would in turn be obeyed. 'Love in that context would mean more than just how we view the word 'love' because in loving God one would obey all his rules and commandments without question as an expression of that love.

Well, okay, I can see where you're coming from.
So, what happens if one's following all the 'rules and commandments' causes one to break the Golden Rule? There's a serious disconnect there, obviously.

[from this point on, 'you' is the impersonal 'you'. Not 'you', the specific person reading the post]
As far as I know, Jesus doesn't deal with it. Luckily, Paul does. He goes into more detail regarding the effects of following the Law. We've dealt with this before.
Galatians 5:22. The Fruit of the Spirit are good things.

If you're following the Law, and it's resulting in breaking the Golden Rule, and NOT resulting in the fruit ... well, it's not the Law. All it is is bad behaviour dressed up in justifications.

Some try to balance the weight of following the Golden Rule & obeying the other rules from God. Neither Paul nor Jesus give equal weight to those two things. Both of them say that it's more important that goodness come from your actions than a strict following of the Law. In other words, if your attempts to follow the law cause a breaking of the Golden Rule, or cause you to not generate the Fruit, you're "Doing it Wrong".

Now, Christians are warned that they'll be persecuted, and some Christians like to throw up their mistreatment as proof of this prophecy. But, if those Christians are being mistreated because they failed to follow the Golden Rule, then this is hardly the persecution they should be glorifying in. Anyone can be a jerk and end up being mistreated. It's hardly a talent or a sign of God's favour.

 

[hossam]

hai guiz if i run for prezident can i be the first muslim prezident of the united states? will you guys vote for me?

ill give you guys universal health care!
and pull out of iraq and afghanistan !
and cut taxes!
and stop giving boatloads of money to israel!
did i mention i would lower taxes?
furthermore i will improve the nations education system!
a vote for hossam is a vote for a better tommorow!

 

[bhsup]

Um, I don't want to stop giving money to Israel

 

[hossam]

Um, I don't want to stop giving money to Israel

would it make you feel better if i said i would also reduce foreign aid to other countries as well? not just israel?

 

[bhsup]

Sorry, not really.

 

[El_Machinae]

Um, I don't want to stop giving money to Israel

Use your tax savings to increase your personal donations!

 

[Karalysia]

hai guiz if i run for prezident can i be the first muslim prezident of the united states? will you guys vote for me?

ill give you guys universal health care!
and pull out of iraq and afghanistan !
and cut taxes!
and stop giving boatloads of money to israel!
did i mention i would lower taxes?
furthermore i will improve the nations education system!
a vote for hossam is a vote for a better tommorow!

Yes.

But I would prefer it if you increased taxes rather than lowered them. I'm a Democrat you see and we like taxes. Taxes are fun and patriotic.

 

[MobBoss]

Now, Christians are warned that they'll be persecuted, and some Christians like to throw up their mistreatment as proof of this prophecy. But, if those Christians are being mistreated because they failed to follow the Golden Rule, then this is hardly the persecution they should be glorifying in. Anyone can be a jerk and end up being mistreated. It's hardly a talent or a sign of God's favour.

However, I feel the need to point out that christians are regarded as 'jerks' for simply spreading the Gospel and evangelizing. I cant count how many times it upsets some atheists that someone actually tried to talk to them about God. I mean, how dare they!

Point being, what you consider as an atheist to be jerk behavior isnt necessarily what God or Jesus would consider jerk behavior. Neither should be standing up for what you believe in be considered jerk behavior either, but when christians actually do this, that is precisely what it is seen as.

And like I said earlier, I dont really want to get into this with you. If you meant what you said in your PM you would respect that, instead of continuing it along these lines.

And with that this will be my final post on this particular part of the thread. There just isnt anything to be gained by continuing it.

 

[Akka]

If you're following the Law, and it's resulting in breaking the Golden Rule, and NOT resulting in the fruit ... well, it's not the Law. All it is is bad behaviour dressed up in justifications.

Wow, it sure does describe perfectly some things I've seen in this thread.

 

[warpus]

However, I feel the need to point out that christians are regarded as 'jerks' for simply spreading the Gospel and evangelizing.

Not all - you gotta be tactful when it comes to spreading your faith to others. When you're not - people are gonna rightfully call you a jerk.

 

[MobBoss]

Wow, it sure does describe perfectly some things I've seen in this thread.

And precisely how was the Golden Rule broken in this thread? It says I need to love others as I love myself.....not necessarily vote for them. I probably wouldnt vote for myself either.

I have even said, repeatedly, that I dont hate atheists or even anyone that just disagrees with me, so that cant be it.

Or maybe your skin is simply so thin as to equate such treatment as 'hate' and thats that. Perhaps your view of the Golden Rule means we all have to agree with your personal opinion and thats it. /shrug.

Fwiw, as I said earlier, I hope you repent, and are redeemed in the eyes of the Lord. Isnt that love enough for you?