Windows 10

My Start menu used to look like that, too. Then I got lazy about sorting programs after installation, since inevitably half the programs I install don't ask where they should put themselves in the Start menu. Now it's got a bunch of categories, and a much longer list of things I've installed more recently thereafter.

In theory, I do like that plan, though. And to Mise's concern, it is possible to put software in multiple folders if it can reasonably be thought of as both "Internet" and "Utilities" - it's just a shortcut, after all. I haven't done this myself, but it would make sense to do so.

The biggest problem with that approach is it's a fair amount of maintenance. Well-done, it will have "Directory Counter" or something like that under "Utilities", not "Jam Software", and that's possible. It's just that it's too easy to let things get out of hand and disorganized.
I agree - the amount of time I had to spend maintaining start menu organisation (and the number of times I had to reinstall Windows back in the day) was prohibitive.

I don't like the sound of Windows automagically installing the top port scanner or whatever you search for. It seems prone to promoting the existing top solution at best, and thus making it harder for any competitors, and prone to installing software that's nowhere near what you wanted and possibly malicious at worst. The actual "tagging" element (e.g. I search for text editor, it gives me Notepad++, Word Pad, and Notepad as options from what I already have installed) sounds all right, and potentially useful.
Sorry I probably haven't explained myself very well. I don't want it to install anything automatically. When you search for port scanning software in google/bing/sourceforge etc, it gives you a bunch of results. Let's say you take the top 20 results. Windows should look at the top 20 results and see if I already have one of those results installed. If I do, it should open that automatically. If I don't, it should give me the option of installing one of the 20 results. This would be a lot easier to implement if there was a "store" or repo that it could search, give reviews, order by rating/relevance/downloads/etc, and download without having to go to a website.

If I take Android as an example, it would be really easy to do. If I search for "file manager" in the Google Play Store, it will give thousands of results. I don't know how google orders them, but I assume it aims to get the "best" apps at the top of the list. The 5th in the list is "OI File Manager", which I already have installed. So Google knows that I have a file manager installed already. OTOH, if I don't have a file manager installed, it just has a massive list of file managers for me to install. So in Android, it would be really easy to do, because the Play Store results already get you 90% of the way there. All you need to add is a search facility for apps that pulls info from the Play Store and either automatically opens the already installed program, or takes you to the Play Store where you can install an app if you want.

How is this Jam Software directory sorter, by the way? I use JDiskReport myself, and while it's pretty good, I can imagine the possibility of a superior solution.
It does the job. I got it as a shareware on a magazine cover disk maybe 15 years ago and have been installing it ever since (though not from that same CD obviously!). JDiskReport looks like it does the same thing, and it's freeware, so that's a bonus...
 
We've had this discussion before, and what I want is to be able to search for "port scanner" and have my port scanner come up. It should pull the top results from google (or bing if MS insists on it) and see which one i've got, then open that. And if I don't have a port scanner, it should give me the option to install it (without having to go to any website - it should pull it from the "store" or repository). My phone does something similar at the moment, but it doesn't know enough context (the search is a more general search than just an "open program"/"file search" dialog) to give me the most relevant response.

I don't know how you'd do this in a really good way for everything.

For windows functions, search is very robust, which I assume is from MS manually tagging stuff. (ie. Search for "bigger" and you get the "Change the size of apps on the screen" search results.)

Enabling Bing results through the start search starts along the path of contextual results like you mention (will give windows store results, depending on search terms). It introduces delay into the search and sometimes gives ads though, neither of which are acceptable to me, so I leave it disabled.
 
A lot of people are calling for the return of the start menu and more focus on the desktop. People generally dislike change. Look at New Coke as an example. PC sales are down mostly because people don't want Windows 8 or 8.1. If anything the high ups are going to force the return of the start menu. Steve Ballmer got the boot, would not surprise me if a good chunk of the Windows development team also gets fired because of this. Anyone who gets fired over the failure of Windows 8 deserves. I can even see all Metro elements being removed fully or greatly downplayed in Windows 9.
 
I like Windows 8.1. Much faster than 7. I haven't had a single lockup or BSOD with it. I don't really see a problem with the Metro interface, just set it to go straight to the desktop and that's it. Want to search for a program? Just hit the windows key on your keyboard and start typing the name of the file or program you want. Just like the windows search box in 7.
BTW, selling 200 million licenses of Windows 8 is hardly a failure.
 
A lot of people are calling for the return of the start menu and more focus on the desktop.

Yeah, a lot of people don't understand PCs very well.

People generally dislike change.

Too bad for them.

PC sales are down mostly because people don't want Windows 8 or 8.1.

There's no evidence of this.

Steve Ballmer got the boot,

There's no evidence of this.

would not surprise me if a good chunk of the Windows development team also gets fired because of this.

This would be a laughably terrible move. :lol:

The Windows development team is one of the best in the world, this would be like Boeing firing a good chunk of its engineering team because people whine that they don't like the colours of the seats in one of their planes.

I can even see all Metro elements being removed fully or greatly downplayed in Windows 9.

There's more development work put into 8.1U1 from 8.0 than there will be from 8.1U1 to 9. How many metro elements were removed from 8.0 to 8.1U1?
 
I guess you just felt like posting without bothering to read anything in the thread?

I read your posts, found you to be wrong, and posted. We all know you're a Microsoft fanboy, but give it up, bro. No one in their right mind likes the Metro Start Screen with a mouse. Some of us have a lot of monitor real estate and it isn't practical.

Moderator Action: Use of the word "fanboy" is trolling. Please do not use it any more.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Sorry I probably haven't explained myself very well. I don't want it to install anything automatically. When you search for port scanning software in google/bing/sourceforge etc, it gives you a bunch of results. Let's say you take the top 20 results. Windows should look at the top 20 results and see if I already have one of those results installed. If I do, it should open that automatically. If I don't, it should give me the option of installing one of the 20 results. This would be a lot easier to implement if there was a "store" or repo that it could search, give reviews, order by rating/relevance/downloads/etc, and download without having to go to a website.

Ehhhhh, I tend not to go with the top results until I've dug further. Some of the best gems I've found are deep in the bowels of Softpedia or whatnot.
 
Sure, and nothing I'm suggesting prevents you from installing whatever software you want.

EDIT: Wait, I see what you mean now. Yeah, as I say, it would be better if the OS had a "store" so that it can easily pull as many results as possible when deciding whether to open a program or prompt to install.
 
I read your posts, found you to be wrong, and posted. We all know you're a Microsoft fanboy, but give it up, bro. No one in their right mind likes the Metro Start Screen with a mouse. Some of us have a lot of monitor real estate and it isn't practical.

I'm such a Microsoft fanboy that I preferentially use a Mac as my main work computer.

Moderator Action: Please do not feed the trolls. This is not helping the situation.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

And my main windows computer has 3 x 1080p monitors and a 1920x1200 monitor attached, I'm doubtful very many people have more monitor real estate than me.

Care to explain which particular problem I'm supposed to be having with Win8 and all my monitors, compared to Win7 and all my monitors?
 
I agree - the amount of time I had to spend maintaining start menu organisation (and the number of times I had to reinstall Windows back in the day) was prohibitive.


Sorry I probably haven't explained myself very well. I don't want it to install anything automatically. When you search for port scanning software in google/bing/sourceforge etc, it gives you a bunch of results. Let's say you take the top 20 results. Windows should look at the top 20 results and see if I already have one of those results installed. If I do, it should open that automatically. If I don't, it should give me the option of installing one of the 20 results. This would be a lot easier to implement if there was a "store" or repo that it could search, give reviews, order by rating/relevance/downloads/etc, and download without having to go to a website.

If I take Android as an example, it would be really easy to do. If I search for "file manager" in the Google Play Store, it will give thousands of results. I don't know how google orders them, but I assume it aims to get the "best" apps at the top of the list. The 5th in the list is "OI File Manager", which I already have installed. So Google knows that I have a file manager installed already. OTOH, if I don't have a file manager installed, it just has a massive list of file managers for me to install. So in Android, it would be really easy to do, because the Play Store results already get you 90% of the way there. All you need to add is a search facility for apps that pulls info from the Play Store and either automatically opens the already installed program, or takes you to the Play Store where you can install an app if you want.

That does sound okay, as long as there is a non-store option for installing software. Repos like many Linux distros have are useful, and this is a sensible extension to the concept. But walled-garden stores like the iOS store and the Windows 8 Metro store are the type I'm not a fan of. It raises the barrier to entry and lets the wall-maintainer kick people out for any reason they want. And so I can't really endorse the idea as long as Microsoft is going walled-garden with Metro and Apple is going Gatekeeper on OSX. The idea itself is OK, I just don't trust MS/Apple not to extend it and forbid non-approved software.


It does the job. I got it as a shareware on a magazine cover disk maybe 15 years ago and have been installing it ever since (though not from that same CD obviously!). JDiskReport looks like it does the same thing, and it's freeware, so that's a bonus...

The Jam Software does look pretty similar. I downloaded the free version, and that version is a bit spartan, but it does allow you to see the results-in-progress, which is nice. I've got enough space that the paid version probably isn't worth it, though.
 
That does sound okay, as long as there is a non-store option for installing software. Repos like many Linux distros have are useful, and this is a sensible extension to the concept. But walled-garden stores like the iOS store and the Windows 8 Metro store are the type I'm not a fan of. It raises the barrier to entry and lets the wall-maintainer kick people out for any reason they want. And so I can't really endorse the idea as long as Microsoft is going walled-garden with Metro and Apple is going Gatekeeper on OSX. The idea itself is OK, I just don't trust MS/Apple not to extend it and forbid non-approved software.

I'm alright with a model like Mac OS or Android which is opt-in to install non-appstore stuff. It's essentially no different for technically savvy people, but could hopefully eventually stomp out people installing crapware. App store guidelines need to be far more stringent to weed out crappy apps though.
 
There's no evidence of this. {ed. note - Ballmer firing}

When a CEO is fired the acti
is almost always given a 'retired' or 'resigned'
fig leaf, not to mention a generous golden parachute. Even
though it will never be officially stated as a firing, the timing cannot be a coincidence.

This would be a laughably terrible move. :lol:

It's my understanding that the head of the team was in fact fired. In my opinion it
is safe to say that both he and Ballmer would still have their jobs if it were'nt for
the consumer backlash against Win 8. And oh by the way the Win 8 license sale thing
is deceptive in that someone can downgrade it to Win 7 after
the computer is purchased if they so choose, and a nontrivial number people have
chosen to do so. (just like was done with Vista/XP).
 
When a CEO is fired the acti
is almost always given a 'retired' or 'resigned'
fig leaf, not to mention a generous golden parachute. Even
though it will never be officially stated as a firing, the timing cannot be a coincidence.

Well the timing could very easily be a coincidence, though it isn't, but not for the reason you think. Ballmer stated his general retirement plans years ago. MS was between major product cycles and he just oversaw a major organizational overhaul - to avoid leaving midway through the next cycle (to line up with previous timelines) he had to either leave early or stay on longer, and went with the earlier option.

It's my understanding that the head of the team was in fact fired. In my opinion it
is safe to say that both he and Ballmer would still have their jobs if it were'nt for
the consumer backlash against Win 8.

Sinofsky left for related reasons - he probably could have stayed on in some capacity but wasn't going to get the role he wanted (ie. CEO) after the reception of Win8. Ballmer likely would be retired regardless.

And oh by the way the Win 8 license sale thing
is deceptive in that someone can downgrade it to Win 7 after
the computer is purchased if they so choose, and a nontrivial number people have
chosen to do so. (just like was done with Vista/XP).

I suspect the number of people who've downgraded to Win7 is in fact trivial. The 200 million figure includes every license MS has sold, regardless of whether the OEM product is in a retail store, in a warehouse or on a truck from the factory. There are about 175 million Win8 devices in active use, and I'm guessing most of the remaining 25 million is stock that's in transit. (They're selling about 12.5 million licenses per month, so two month's worth of stock would account for the entire amount.)
 
It's my understanding that the head of the team was in fact fired. In my opinion it
is safe to say that both he and Ballmer would still have their jobs if it were'nt for
the consumer backlash against Win 8. And oh by the way the Win 8 license sale thing
is deceptive in that someone can downgrade it to Win 7 after
the computer is purchased if they so choose, and a nontrivial number people have
chosen to do so. (just like was done with Vista/XP).

There's a big difference between the head of the team and "a good chunk of the development team". The head of the team who's responsible for a lot of the design decisions, perhaps so. A good chunk of the development team and you've got a major brain drain problem. And you can't just pick up a bunch of developers off the street for something like that, have them start, and pick up where you were - they won't have the knowledge about the Windows architecture and its code to be as productive, even if they have experience at other companies. The next version or two of the software would suffer, and likely be more buggy, as a result.

Zelig said:
I'm alright with a model like Mac OS or Android which is opt-in to install non-appstore stuff. It's essentially no different for technically savvy people, but could hopefully eventually stomp out people installing crapware. App store guidelines need to be far more stringent to weed out crappy apps though.

I don't know, I'm split. From an idealist perspective, I'd favor opt-out to installing non-appstore stuff, since most people will leave the default, and that favors a distribution monopoly. And from what little experience I have with the iOS store a few years back, you're absolutely right about the guidelines needing to be better if the app store model is to improve quality. From what I saw, I usually got better results in terms of actually useful software by Googling for Windows programs than searching or browsing the iOS store. Maybe there's just more free and/or open source software for Windows, but while I can often find a free program for what I need on Windows, or at least a reputable non-free option, there was so much software that was essentially adware on iOS, with noticeable ads when running the program.

I also noticed a major spike in the amount of spam I received after using the iOS store. Since it was essentially none before, it was very noticeable. And since the subject was heavily related to the applications I'd downloaded in the iOS store, I'm pretty sure that's where the spam originated from. I don't know if Apple intentionally shared my e-mail or if they had some sort of security breach, but it gave the app store model a bad taste. I've never had that sort of problem with Windows applications from the Internet, and since I don't supply my e-mail when downloading them, the trust issue never really exists there in the first place. (Well, aside from the possibility of viruses, but I tend to recognize sketchy when I see it) So this may also be part of the reason I'm very hesitant about app stores.

Whether the Windows 8 Metro store is as bad, I'm not sure, since I've stuck with the desktop on Windows 8. And hopefully Apple has improved the state of their store since 2009, although I don't plan to find out for myself.

Now, if app stores actually increased the quality of what you found in practice and I had more faith in the data protection aspects of them, I can see where it might benefit the average Joe. The monopolistic tinge would still bother me, though.

Can you actually install non-Google-store stuff on Android without rooting it? I thought you had to root it to do that, or install a 3rd party store such as the Amazon store. If you can actually put programs on it completely outside of the store, I might consider it. Realistically, I'm still unlikely to adopt it for a phone, since data plans are expensive in the U.S. and I don't really trust Google anymore, but that would be one less strike against it.

I suspect the number of people who've downgraded to Win7 is in fact trivial. The 200 million figure includes every license MS has sold, regardless of whether the OEM product is in a retail store, in a warehouse or on a truck from the factory. There are about 175 million Win8 devices in active use, and I'm guessing most of the remaining 25 million is stock that's in transit. (They're selling about 12.5 million licenses per month, so two month's worth of stock would account for the entire amount.)

I'm not sure. Do enterprises count under the Windows 8 license number, or as Windows 7 licenses? If they count as Windows 8, that's going to be an awful lot of downgrades.

If they don't, it would be interesting to see what the Windows 7 license sale numbers are since the release of Windows 8. Of the three companies I've worked for in the past 5 years, all three of them are still deploying Windows 7, not 8. And I'm pretty sure they aren't in the minority. At least two of them skipped Vista entirely, so it wouldn't surprise me if they skipped 8 entirely as well.
 
Opt-out to install non-appstore stuff is essentially worthless, it will do nothing to curb the vast majority of people who install all kinds of crapware on their systems.

It's really only the subset of people (and not even all of them) who would would opt-in to install non-appstore stuff who are capable of handling it, everyone else installs junk, either intentionally or not: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/DownloadWrappersAndUnwantedSoftwareArePureEvil.aspx I'd say about 99% of PC users shouldn't install anything that isn't available from ninite or Steam/GoG.

You can install non Google-store stuff (ie. any *.apk you download) on Android with a checkbox in the settings, same behavior as Mac OS. It's not something I generally bother with since you lose features like auto-updating. (But necessary for stuff that Google doesn't allow, like adblock.)

I'm not sure. Do enterprises count under the Windows 8 license number, or as Windows 7 licenses? If they count as Windows 8, that's going to be an awful lot of downgrades.

If they don't, it would be interesting to see what the Windows 7 license sale numbers are since the release of Windows 8. Of the three companies I've worked for in the past 5 years, all three of them are still deploying Windows 7, not 8. And I'm pretty sure they aren't in the minority. At least two of them skipped Vista entirely, so it wouldn't surprise me if they skipped 8 entirely as well.

Enterprises typically don't need to use downgrade rights on their regular systems, they just keep buying/using Win7 licenses. My best guess is that MS is still selling in the range of 6-7 million Win7 licenses per month, almost entirely to enterprise.

What they're counting as license numbers isn't really relevant to any of my numbers anyway, 175 million active users isn't an MS number, it's a best guess from third-party independents.
 
Sinofsky left for related reasons - he probably could have stayed on in some capacity but wasn't going to get the role he wanted (ie. CEO) after the reception of Win8. Ballmer likely would be retired regardless.

To add to this, with Sinofsky and his management team no longer in charge of Windows, it's now in large part former management from Windows Phone (Terry Myerson) and WP/Zune (Joe Belfiore) running the entire OS division.
 
More separation of the phone/tablet style interface and the desktop/laptop style interface should be a priority. Windows 8 was a market failure like Vista was. They will need to distance themselves from it. Bring back the start menu, get rid of Metro on the desktop version completely. Keep some of the improvements but get rid of the annoying features. The desktop is far better then Metro.
 
More separation of the phone/tablet style interface and the desktop/laptop style interface should be a priority. Windows 8 was a market failure like Vista was. They will need to distance themselves from it. Bring back the start menu, get rid of Metro on the desktop version completely. Keep some of the improvements but get rid of the annoying features. The desktop is far better then Metro.
That would not make sense for fusion devices that have both a touch and keyboard interface.
 
More separation of the phone/tablet style interface and the desktop/laptop style interface should be a priority. Windows 8 was a market failure like Vista was. They will need to distance themselves from it. Bring back the start menu, get rid of Metro on the desktop version completely. Keep some of the improvements but get rid of the annoying features. The desktop is far better then Metro.

What if Metro were completely optional, but still present?
 
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