"Wokeist" - When people talk about progressivism without acquaintance

[Narz]

Edit: should note narz sounds more like he's saying he's against benefits completely. Benefit structures that penalize working are one thing but "incentivizes dependence" is a dumb talking-point - people are all "dependent" on the source of their income stream

Just when I think you're actually listening you have to add edit your post to add some trolling...

 

[Berzerker]

Josh Donaldson got fined and suspended and I suppose the requisite threats for calling Tim Anderson Jackie after Tim fancied himself the new Jackie Robinson

wokeism at its finest

Tim just got a new nickname at opposing ballparks

 

[Kaushad]

How are you interpretation career opportunities? It seems to have negative/disingenuous connotations for you.

Mostly job vacancies as we know them. They're exclusive. So nobody is entitled to paid work, not even the type of jobs Cloud mentioned that don't cover living costs. One would think that we've run out of work that needs to done.

It should be noted that people who turn to a life of crime tend to be some of the hardest-working, most entrepreneurial people around.

I assume that ambitious, enterprising people would continue to pursue career crime if we had absolute social security, but so long as legitimate work remains a privilege to be won, we endorse it, with every industry.

 

[Angst]

For example say you get on disability benefits (in the USA), you are no longer able to work past a certain amount of hours/wages. If you do you risk losing your benefits. If a person wants extra income they are focused to work under the table or illegally, this can be an education in itself but of course is not useful for a regular resume.

If that person got kicked off their benefits for whatever reason (as many did during the coronavirus pandemic) they're really screwed, no work history, references, social contacts from work, etc.

Tldr : many forms of social services actively punish you for seeking education or work. @Lexicus summarized as well


Yes this. This type of dependency also does one's head in a bit. Perhaps in the West & US particularly there's too much emphasis on hard work, vocation as identity nose to the grindstone, etc. which is unhealthy. But all evidence I've seen says that chronic unemployment is very bad for the psyche.


See above.


Again I'm not opposed to social safety but not if it disempowers the individual.

Like say you're a young lady & two rich guys wanted to marry you.

Guy #1 : Will pay all your expenses, keep you generally safe but also demands you can't work or seek other opportunities to contribute to your own life.
Guy #2 : Will pay your basic expenses, keep you safe but also encourage you to explore work, other educational, social & economic opportunities without shaming you if you end up just being a housewife or whatever.

Obviously guy #2 is preferable.

alright, that makes sense. i'm actually kind of in the trap in subsidies while not being able to work for money legally. it's indeed not good for my head either. i'm actually making music for a game right now, but it cuts directly into my subsidies, so i'm not earning anything from it. counter compensation (where you "just" lose part of your benefits) is preferable over a complete work ban but yea (like, for the sake of bread on the table, why am i doing it etc)

 

[Narz]

Mostly job vacancies as we know them. They're exclusive. So nobody is entitled to paid work, not even the type of jobs Cloud mentioned that don't cover living costs. One would think that we've run out of work that needs to done.

That's why I support a basic income, one that doesn't change if you work.

America is f-ing itself w the ridiculous cost of college as well. Because most high level work is exclusive and requires a lot of education the government should make said education more affordable to be more competitive globally.

but so long as legitimate work remains a privilege to be won

You're always gonna have to prove some level of competency for any position. Would you hire a sitter for your kid without an interview and checking references?

 

[Lexicus]

Yes this. This type of dependency also does one's head in a bit. Perhaps in the West & US particularly there's too much emphasis on hard work, vocation as identity nose to the grindstone, etc. which is unhealthy. But all evidence I've seen says that chronic unemployment is very bad for the psyche.

Chronic unemployment is bad for the psyche because we've internalized the need to be "productive" (ie, have our labor make a profit for someone else). Also, more importantly, we do not have adequate supports for people who are involuntarily unemployed so of course it's bad for the psyche to live in a constant state of material insecurity

 

[Cutlass]

very notably, blm (the organization itself) committed fraud and each political party went through the motions of proposing legislation to reform police conduct before proceeding to instantly and indefinitely block each other's proposal and do nothing...which seems to suit them just fine.

what, exactly, was done to alter the oversight of police and their conduct? what legislation passed which could be traced to stopping the rioting?

The best possible option to combat police misconduct is Decimation. In the Old School Roman way. When there is misconduct by a police officer, all the officers on that force are line up, and 1 in 10 gets the sword in their guts.

Problem solved.

 

[Lexicus]

The best possible option to combat police misconduct is Decimation. In the Old School Roman way. When there is misconduct by a police officer, all the officers on that force are line up, and 1 in 10 gets the sword in their guts.

Problem solved.

The Old School Roman Way was for groups of ten to draw straws, and then the one who drew the shortest straw was beaten to death by the other nine. None of this merciful "sword in the guts" stuff.

 

[Narz]

Chronic unemployment is bad for the psyche because we've internalized the need to be "productive" (ie, have our labor make a profit for someone else). Also, more importantly, we do not have adequate supports for people who are involuntarily unemployed so of course it's bad for the psyche to live in a constant state of material insecurity

That is part of it but not the whole of it. Everyone wants to feel like they're serving their fellow man.

Of course you don't have to be part of the formal economy to do that.

 

[Synobun]

Chronic unemployment is bad for the psyche because we've internalized the need to be "productive" (ie, have our labor make a profit for someone else).

I am really not sure this is meaningfully true, and I don't understand this drive to paint the pre-Industrial Revolution as some utopic lifestyle of bliss.

 

[Hygro]

Derek Chauvin went to jail (for now)... so... racism solved? BLM should declare mission accomplished?If I'm imagining a hypothetical movie about Me Too, (which, I acknowledge upfront is not without substantial irony, since for one thing, I'm a dude) the movie would start with Clarence Thomas' confirmation to the SCOTUS, followed by a brief montage of that, then Clinton/Lewinsky, then Cosby, then jump forward to the more recent events, and ending with Susan Collins longwinded speech confirming Kavanaugh to the SCOTUS... cut to black, then an epilogue listing a bunch of things like the article @Synobun quoted. I think that Me Too really culminated (ended/died) with Collins speech confirming Kavanaugh. For numerous reasons, that moment was such a perfect capstone illustration of the Me Too movement and its legacy.

I don't regard Me Too as a "failed movement". I don't regard Me Too as having "succeeded" either. It moved "the window", Overton, or otherwise. One of the illusory cornerstones of how American history is taught, perceived etc., domestically, is that racism/racial prejudice/discrimination ended with MLK/the Civil Rights Movement. Me too didn't remotely end the issue it was focused upon fighting, and as a movement its lost grip on the popular narrative... people have largely moved on from caring.

Sounds like your movie could use a sequel.

 

[Lexicus]

I am really not sure this is meaningfully true, and I don't understand this drive to paint the pre-Industrial Revolution as some utopic lifestyle of bliss.

Before farming was the utopic lifestyle of bliss*, but I would say the "grind/hustle" has been perhaps most internalized in the US and probably less so in the rest of the developed world. Anyway, I'd say it's material insecurity that takes a bigger toll on the psyche.

*some restrictions apply. Void where prohibited

 

[Farm Boy]

You don't have to envision any type of particular bliss to understand that social creatures often derive meaning from social interactions where they dicern they have purpose. I mean, Encanto is good for a reason and that could take place almost whenever.

 

[Lexicus]

You don't have to envision any type of particular bliss to understand that social creatures often derive meaning from social interactions where they dicern they have purpose.

But it's entirely possible to have these things without paid employment.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Sounds like your movie could use a sequel.

Indeed... but again... not my movie... I'm a dude.

But it's entirely possible to have these things without paid employment.

Indeed... @Farm Boy , Encanto being a an example... for example.

 

[Akka]

Chronic unemployment is bad for the psyche because we've internalized the need to be "productive" (ie, have our labor make a profit for someone else).

No, we need to feel we are "useful" and we can "carry our weight". That's nothing new, that's not an evil invention of today's society, that's one of the most fundamental part of human psyche. That's why we brags about our accomplishment, that's why we need to feel recognized and so on.
It's just the instinct of the tribe member where he has to show the tribe he's not dead weight or he'll be discarded after a while.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Behold wokeists, true evil!

 

[Narz]

No, we need to feel we are "useful" and we can "carry our weight". That's nothing new, that's not an evil invention of today's society, that's one of the most fundamental part of human psyche. That's why we brags about our accomplishment, that's why we need to feel recognized and so on.
It's just the instinct of the tribe member where he has to show the tribe he's not dead weight or he'll be discarded after a while.

There are instances of ancient people w severe physical handicaps (evidenced by their skeleton) buried who'd lived normal length lives (in other words were taken care of the tribe while likely being a net burden). But certainly they contributed in their own ways.

Regarding the modern world it could be set up so people could work fewer hours and more meaningfully serve their communities but corporate profit is more of a priority unfortunately & don't see that changing.

 

[Farm Boy]

Indeed... but again... not my movie... I'm a dude.Indeed... @Farm Boy , Encanto being a an example... for example.

Maybe he hasn't seen it. It is pretty girly.

...should I link something about John Basilone returning to theater?

 

[Lexicus]

That's nothing new, that's not an evil invention of today's society, that's one of the most fundamental part of human psyche.

*citation needed