Wonder Elimination Thread

[bcaiko]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 23
Great Library 18 (+1)
Hagia Sophia 3
Himeji Castle 11
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 34
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 10 (-2)
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 34
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 22
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 22

Great Library can pop you into some difficult-to-hardresearch and important techs. As Japan, I can use it to launch me directly into Iron Working by the time it's built. Which gets me that much closer to Samurai.

Neuschwanstein Castle, as I've said before, doesn't give the bang for the buck that other Wonders on this list do, and is difficult to build. It certainly doesn't hold a candle to Hagia Sophia, IMHO, which looks to be the next to fall.

I just got painfully set back by the GL in my current Immortal game - it was less than 8 turns from completion and I'd thought I was safe; the Celts weren't likely to show an interest and Nebuchadnezzar, being AI Nebuchadnezzar, hadn't researched Writing (though at least he got it by turn 29 rather than, as in his last appearance, turn 50). I still haven't caught up in science, early in the Medieval Period.

I recently had a Huge game with 20 Civs where I had a capital that was almost completely sans-production (surrouned entirely by jungle). I figured I had NO shot at building the GL, so I didn't even try. Plenty of time had passed, I has remedied my production problems and built Stonehenge...and still no one had built the GL. I couldn't believe it. I decided to give it the go, if only for the Wonder gold. I ended up snagging it on a hard build. Still perplexed as to how that happened. Maybe the AI had the same thought I did: "Someone else is going to build this, so why bother?" Unbelievable.

I usually build it for the extra xp that units receive from that city. For example, if you play the Netherlands with the Brandenburg Gate + other bonuses = a whole bunch of promotions. Works really well in getting a +1 range bonus on frigates.

This is what you're *supposed* to build the Brandenburg Gate for: the free promotion. The free Great General is just icing that you can immediately snag some land with.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21 (-2)
Great Library 18
Hagia Sophia 3
Himeji Castle 11
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35 (+1)
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 10
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 34
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 22
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 22

I likes me some hubble space telescope. One of the astronauts who repaired it came to my university (he was also an alumni) and talked about the mission. At one point they basically had to beat on the service doors to get them shut as they had warped a bit in the heat of sunlight. It's also really powerful but it does come so late. If it wasn't for the TWO GS's, it would be a lot less useful. As is, it's pretty flexible for other strategies because who doesn't need technology to win?

I was going to downvote the Nooch but I actually got to build it yesterday and the bonuses it gives to castles are just enormous. I normally don't build castles unless I'm under seige but after getting hte Nooch, it was like OMG these things give me gold and culture?? Sweet. Also, someone said you can't see the Nooch in the game when it's built and you definately can. It's carved into a mountain near the city it's built in just like Machu Pichu. I really like the way the devs did that, it's neat.

So I downvoted the Eiffel tower because in CIV it used to do what the CN tower does now. In CiV it's just underwhelming...

 

[Gucumatz]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21 (-2)
Great Library 18
Hagia Sophia 4 (+1) This wonder can be very useful if you time things right - Your first great prophet may be slow on its way but if it should be near you can time Hagia somewhat to follow your first normal great prophet to instantly enhance your religy. But a free great prophet is always flexible - If you have already enhanced take it on the warpath with the enemy cities bonus and use it basically as another great general to conquer several nearby cities. And if you already have your religion enhanced - another +6 faith improvement can never hurt. Just gives you more faith to get other religious buildings quicker and to help you in the long run to buy an extra great scientist or two in the industrial.
Himeji Castle 11
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 8 (-2) Still the worst of the wonders left
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 34
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 22
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 22

 

[Wolvenheart]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21
Great Library 18
Hagia Sophia 4
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 9
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 34
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 22
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 22

N. Castle isn't seeing nearly enough love IMO. While I don't see it as the best wonder left, I think it deserves more votes. By the time it becomes available walls and castles are very quick to build, and it can end up providing an enormous amount of happiness, gold and culture--more than some other wonders produce in only one of these areas. While a lot of games may not bother with it, it fits so well with certain strategies that in some games it's at the top of my list for wonders I will push for.

H Castle, on the other hand, I don't think I've ever built. If I'm going to have problems holding my own turf in a game, it's probably before this becomes available, and around the time I'm getting chivalry I have much higher priorities.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21
Great Library 18
Hagia Sophia 2
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 10
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 34
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 22
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 22

Hagia just isnt the timed powerhouse it used to be.

I think if you have a big puppet empire that auto-builds castles it would be a huge bonus late in the game and more than likely when you need it. I also did the math in a 3-city game to see if i wanted to build it. it was late and the castles were about 3 turns per city. the bonus from them and Neusch would have been +15gpt/+10cpt/+5hpt with just 3 cities.

 

[Petiscator]

Alhambra 19
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21
Great Library 18
Hagia Sophia 0
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 34
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 22
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 22

I just love N. Castle. It's really useful to bump up wide empires.

I like Hagia Sophia outside of the game, but for me, that free great prophet is useless. I preffer it's effect in Vanilla.

 

[Tabarnak]

Alhambra 17
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 35
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 22
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 22

Alhambra : Rarely build this. Can be ok for cultural victories, but like many other war wonders i prefer to get more units than anything else.

Oracle : Rationalism opener slingshot!

 

[Kwami]

Alhambra 17
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 12
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 35
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 22
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 20

I really don't understand the hate for Neuschwanstein Castle! One castle + Neuschwanstein gives you 9 Gold, 6 Culture, 3 Happiness, and 1 Great Merchant Point. That's quite a boost! Then, you can get another 3 Gold, 2 Culture, 1 Happiness for each castle in other cities, which is great for both tall and wide empires. Castles are very easy to build by this point, and you might already have a few anyway, so the overall bonus from Neuschwanstein Castle is fantastic!

I still don't like Stonehenge. It's a false carrot that leads to rage. It's also very boring since it's entirely passive. I think that Stonehenge ruins a lot of good opening game strategy by making players think that they need to get Calendar first, skipping over Archery, Mining, and Writing. I understand that it makes getting a religion on higher levels easier, but it's really not necessary for that. Overall, bleh.

 

[GreekIrish]

Alhambra 17
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 35
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 20
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 22

Pyramids: Useful for wide empires, but if you're trying to expand, you shouldn't be building this, and should be building settlers and workers instead. The 25% bonus from Liberty is good enough.

Notre Dame: 10 happiness is insane and is really useful. Means you don't have to build happiness buildings as early.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Would someone mind posting the effects of the remaining wonders so we can more easily compare and pick amongst them?

 

[Kwami]

Corrections to john129pats' list (post #409) to include my votes for today (post #408).

Alhambra 17
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 12
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 35
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 20
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 20

hobbsyoyo: http://www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/WONDER_HOME.aspx

 

[Petiscator]

Alhambra 17
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 12
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 35
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 20
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 20

 

[joebnr]

Alhambra 17
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 21
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 13 (+1)
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 35
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 20
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 18 (-2)

I typically play wide, and I get to railroad quickly for the production and movement bonus. I'll try to save a GE during this time so I can rush build the Neusch - I like it that much. The bonuses are awesome in a wide empire, but not only that, it really forces me to build walls + castle, where I usually skimp on those things.

Stonehenge, like most Ancient wonders, is a waste of turns. Better off building an army and stealing it if it's close by than shutting down your capital for 6-12 (I play Quick) turns that early in the game for a few lousy faith.

 

[nefloyd]

Alhambra 17
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 19
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 14
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 35
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 20
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 18

Neusch will be saved!

Eiffel's unique function is interesting (bigger bonus for having more policies) but I wish it was something besides happiness. It's usually not a concern by the time it's unlocked.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

hobbsyoyo: http://www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/WONDER_HOME.aspx

Thanks for the link, I'll try and get a condense version posted here so we can all look at the stats when voting.
Ugh, nevermind that format requires too much work though. But thanks for the link, I'll try and include it in all of my posts in this thread.

 

[Dogmouth]

Alhambra 18
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 19
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 14
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 35
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 20
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 18

Why was Alhambra lower than Brandenburg gate? Unless you're on a map with very little rough terrain, I can't understand why anyone would value more XP over a promotion that doesn't bump you up a level. +20% culture and a free castle is also better than a GG (you probably don't need any more GGs once you get Brandenberg).

 

[nefloyd]

Brandenburg's XP boost works on any unit. Drill can only apply to a melee land unit.

 

[Pouakai]

Alhambra 18
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 19
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 35
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 15
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 33
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 20
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 18

Neuschwanstein is incrediably useful, allows lots of yields on a free building (No maintenence for Castle) whereas the Oracle is just a SP

 

[Dogmouth]

Brandenburg's XP boost works on any unit. Drill can only apply to a melee land unit.

Good point! But given that melee units will probably be the bulk of most armies, the free promo is pretty huge.

 

[Dreadnought]

Alhambra 18
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 19
Great Library 18
Himeji Castle 9
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 36
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 25
Neuschwanstein Castle 15
Notre Dame 27
Oracle 33
Petra 26
Porcelain Tower 26
Pyramid 18
Sistine Chapel 17
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 18

The Pyramids is probably among the weakest of the wonders still on the list.

Hubble, on the other hand, is actually pretty cheap, because it virtually guarantees the Space Race will be a one-horse affair.